Career....good one!
12-15yrs to Command isn't a career. Neither is paying to join an airline fully experienced and type rated. They are a joke, along with the others racing to the bottom with their T's & C's, as they financially pat the bloke on the back who comes up with this s:oh:

Don't think B.A is much less in terms of time to command. Are they not a career either ? Do agree with the rest though----part time contracts, paying for the job etc.

Pilots are leaving BA because of the lifestyle. It isn't the end goal it was years ago....

Pilots are leaving B.A ???? Know several who have joined......don't know any who have left. It's by far the best gig in the U.K.....Followed fairly closely by Virgin. From what I can tell the rest seem to be little more than garbage now. Shame really.

Not the once mighty Britannia of yore unfortunately. Despite Balpa's best efforts the Ryanairesque intentions of the 'management' beggar belief. Another formerly great airline going down the tubes industrially for the enrichment of the greedy few at the top.

Before the massive (and continuing) expansion of the LCCs this was probably the norm in the industry. It seems some people today have been spoilt and expect too much!

Fine if you are an FNG but if you have already ploughed years into the industry, you kinda expect a bit more than BA, J2 or TUI are offering, especially now EASA are in charge of the f:mad: FTLs.

PAPI - Come on then tell me what's changed now that EASA FTL's are coming :\

Ok PAPI our messages crossed, if you are not a fan of Thomson then please feel free NOT to comment, you don't have to add very negative comments about the industry, we get it it's not what it was.
By the way well done for adding a link to a differences document that we couldn't all find on the CAA website.:ok:

Yes it's not great that the new guys are paying £7k for an OCC and they will be on a PPY50 contract but you speak to any of those that joined from RYR and they have all stated that it's 100x better.

The CC and the rest of the workforce will always fight to get better terms and we will always fight to keep the best terms possible. You don't see the turnover of pilots that easy, J2 or RYR have, as those that do work here do actually enjoy it.
:cool:

Actually the 7k was the offer only a few months ago for type rated experienced pilots. It was kept very quiet until the interview and referred to as a 'training cost'. It sounds as though it is your first job and you are loyal, I understand, but you have been drip-fed the wrong info.

Thomson recruitment.
 

Thomson one of the best and will remain as so

I love the assumptions made by someone who was obviously told no.
The £7k figure has been around for a couple of years, first employer no it's not but I have been there now for ten years and thankfully don't beleive everything that is said.
Anunaki not sure what the requirements will be it will be great though if they do run the cadet scheme again, the four from last time are doing really well and from what I understand are enjoying the job they are now in.

It might not be for everyone and it might not be what the individual thought, there are also those who did get in and are scorned due to the fact that they had a summer only contract (which hopefully will never rear its ugly head again) and wasn't asked back due to some personality issues.
Good luck if you do.

rj259
I shall agree with you, Thomson is a fantastic place to work there's no doubt, I would also encourage any LCC pilots who can, apply. The grass is definitely greener.

There are of course gripes from a new joiner and this isn't me having a go rj, but I assume that your on a full time contract and missed the cull a few years ago?!

There's lots to think about for any new joiner, your probably going to be on a reduced pension than everyone else, including PPY 50 for the full five years, year one you have the £7k OCC course to pay back (this is quite hard to swallow) meaning that year one summer, pay wise, is good, however the winter is a struggle, don't expect to fly more than two days a month......
This new One aviation is exciting, but being at the bottom of a seniority list is never a nice feeling....

After you get through year one the pay is fairly reasonable, couple with the perks you get mean that Thomson is a pleasant place to work. The long servers in the company might disagree with that statement, but trust me, from what you have come from, it really is day and night! You just have to get through year one first.

As I said before, expect PPY50 for the full 5 years, although a few are leaving to pastures new, there's no indication from the company what so ever and this is purely my own opinion, that this small number of those leaving may well bring an end to the PPY50 contract sooner than the 5 year period.

Good luck to all those that apply, you will love it if you get in!

PS rj, I didn't appreciate your comment about the summer contract guys, I know a few personally and a nicer bunch you couldn't have met, a few had personal recommendations from captains asking the company to keep them on and so I don't believe your comment about personality problems is very valid.

S&G,
Please don't take offence at my comment, I also know that a very large percentage of the summer guys are and will be very very good. I also know they were very frustrated at the fact that the management fed the bull about being kept on. I also know that speaking with some TC's that there were a couple who they really didn't think would or should stay on. Remember it is a big company and there are those you will never hear about.

For the others of whom you know I apologise for my comment.

I did miss the cull a few years ago but not by much, my pension has also been kicked to the floor but yes it is better than what is being offered now and that is really what the CC and the rest of the pilot workforce will be fighting to improve.

I am not completely convinced by the one aviation thing, it may be the best route ever but until then I will remain a little bit sceptical. I hope we can remove the PPY50 for those who join and make it a purely lifestyle choice, maybe even allow trainers to take it to free up space lower down the list for those who really need and want the flying.
Laters.

It's a strange site this.

Jet2 offer a 70% contract for the first year, type rating paid for etc etc and are pilloried for it on here.

Thomson offer a far far more mediocre deal, ripping off type rated people and other than a few raised eyebrows no one cares.

No one cares......far from it.

know what you're applying for....
 

silverknapper, yes that is a good observation.


Those who join package is:
PPY50 - so that means full time May 1st - October 31st
Winter 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off
Pay is 81.3% spread over 12 months of standard salary for 5 years or unless made full time before that (not likely).


Full Time figures
FO £55,435 (1500 hours and 500 jet)
SO £44,348


81.3% for PPY50 (part paid year 50%)

new joiner SO - £36,054
New joiner FO - £45,068


Training Fees
£7k deducted (for training, even if rated)
so becomes
FO £38,068
SO £29,311
for first year of employment.


Monthly Take Home - Year one
A pilot with a standard 15/16 tax code of


FO MONTHLY £2,414
SO monthly £1,918


Over the summer there will be Duty Rig (hourly rate of £8.97 for FO or £7.17 for SO per flying hour) about £700 and basically also add about £3.80ish per hour for duty hours, works out combined total about £700-£1000 per month-ish (before tax).

(These figures are taxable, paid a month in arrears (so pay packet for June - Nov will be higher than Dec-May payments)

Duty Rig and Allowances are not pensionable and productivity based so no fly, no earn.

As mentioned above on 737 fleet assume next to nothng on duty rig and allowances over winter.

Pension - employee pays 3.5% employer USED TO BE 15% but that's a really bad news story the company tried to reduce new joiners employers contribution from 15% to 7% for this years new joiners (after they had given notice elswehere and didnt tell them). That decision has since been reveresed following intervention but only for pilots who have already joined - they have stated they WILL be doing this for new joiners from here on in - 7% pension, that is awful, whether that remains depends on the willingness of the union and company to fight ! But plan on that and there are no nasty surprises.

salary scales for 5 years are below, figures in brackets are the PPY50-81.3% (new joiner figures) of the figures below, there are further reductions for type rating if they go down the non rated route.


SO - 44,348 (36,054)
FO basic 55,435 (45,078)
FO after 5 years in rank - 60,765
FO after 5 years in rank and command suitable 66,095


To Jump From SO to FO need 1500 hours & 500 Jet Hours



*note the "in rank" element of the scales, so if you took 2 years to get from SO to FO and reach 1500 hours you then only just qualify the "in rank" as an FO, so in that example it would take 7 years before triggering the "FO after 5 years in rank" by the wording, no one has reached that point on new scales yet so it remains to be seen how they apply it.


After 5 years length of service the 81.3% is removed and you must be offered full time (you don't have to take it)


If that seems ok to you, then at least you know what the package is. They didn't have enough applicants or a high enough calibre in the last round, perhaps this is grounds to negotiate on the year one training fee if the same happens this year and they cant get enough because of the poor pension.


oh and just to add, if they go down the fixed term contract route like they have a few times (employ you from May - October and suggest there is a chance of a permanent job after) , it is the same terms just for the summer, BUT seek clarification of whether they will deduct the entire £7k for line training for the 6 month contract....I believe they do, OUCH). They didn't keep on the last lot of fixed term pilots, just binned them off after summer.

Weakness' post is pretty accurate, but add on a bit to all the numbers, full time fo now 58k after the inflation pay rise, so ppy50 about 48k.

I would also say you could realistically expect a bit more than 1000 a month in duty rig (flight pay) and fda in the summer.maybe 1300 or so. Not all of the fda is taxable, I think about 20% is tax free. But yes it's not pensionable.

Working day off payment is about 470.

Two years ago Thomson received in excess of 900 applicants when it advertised for pilots, I imagine because it was seen as an excellent career airline.

Last year that number fell to just 40. Yes you read that right. Read into that what you will!

PAPI
Yep that's the regs but tell me what the major changes are at Thomson e.g. EASA has no limits on nights but how many will you be operating under EASA - Or is there no change???

:\

What happened??? Thomson used to be a decent company! RIP the industry as a career I fear!

Only 40!!!!!! Maybe if they consider non rated experienced people they may get a stronger response. At least half of my outfit would move up to TOM if the opportunity was offered and it was a reasonable contract.

I think the reason for the low number may have been due to two reasons,
1- it was very short notice indeed, not very well advertised and the company relied heavily on personal recommendations (which they never seemed to use?)
2- if you were unsuccessful the last time you were unable to reapply for 12 months..... This meant a lot of the past applicants couldn't then reapply!

or

3.people have worked out that 81,3% of pay scales for 5 years plus the £7k and 8% pension it would not be financially viable to move from where they are.

4. in the previous recruitment round to the last would many of the new PPY50 pilots were made full time within a year through a deal struck by the union so expectation by applicants in the last rounds would be too, this didn't happen and likely won't again. So perhaps all the RYR pilots who joined are maybe not so keen to recommend as the previous bunch had been.

or any combination of the above.

As for recruiting non rated pilots, if they do that then the cost is £7k per annum for the first 3 years or £2400 per month for the first 8 months.

then there is the cadet scheme which is the above pay figures reduced to 81.3% oh and they deduct £2400 per month for the duration of the contract, pretty much one of the worse paid cadet schemes there is our there at the moment, there has been no external cadet recruitment for a few years.

but, until there is a shortage of applicants don't expect the terms to improve, supply and demand etc ....... so I guess the path through aviation will be something like RYR>TOM>BA/VS/elsewhere as confirmed by the number of recent joiners who have just left us having not been here long for the likes of full time BA (and that was leaving a 15% pension, never mind a 7% one).

*yes above figures increased by a couple percent in last pay round, I have never made £1300 a month on DR and FDA though !? Perhaps it depends where you are based (756/787 definitely takes home more FDA and DR due to trips).

Tom pay.
 

Lead and you think so.

For the avoidance of doubt, I think the figure of 1300.00 per month
FDA and rig ,
is easily achievable ,on a busy summer month without leave and is a gross figure and accurate when netted back after tax.

For info.

757 Shorthaul only last Summer, average FDA and DR 1300.
767 Winter Longhaul, average FDA & DR 2000.

Many recent 73 joiners worked full time in Winter as they went to Canada and several others (18 months service) have already bid onto 757/767.

So if those who went to Canada worked all winter will they now be made full time ? And those pilots senior to them who are ppy50 but didn't go to Canada ?

No. Canada was voluntary, but you can of course bid to go back next winter to get the full time pay.

When if any is this rumoured recruitment to be commenced?

Assessment days are planned for 27 September to the 2nd October. So who knows when the applications need to be in.

Going on previous years, I would hazard a guess the application will open in August and close before the end of the month.

Recruitment opening up this August for circa 60 new FO's including non type-rated.

Sunwing
 

How does the detachment to Sunwing in the winter work? Does the company provide accommodation? Do you get to come back to the UK during the detachment? Is there much interest/uptake?

Just to confirm busybee's post, this is a quote from an email from Stuart Gruber our DFO...

" We are planning for up to 60 pilots to join Thomson Airways this winter to be ready and on line for summer 2016. This will include external type rated and non-type rated pilots and six internal cadets. Our external recruitment campaigns will be launched in the coming weeks."

Good news that non-type rated pilots are included this time. Note the cadets will, as on previous occasions, be recruited from licence holders within Thomson.
With regard to the Canada detachment, yes accommodation is provided, (and a car I think). It is crewed from volunteers who bid for the detachment. Opportunities to return home are limited I believe, but some take family with them.

Canada
 

Uptake among LHS'ers is low on the canada detachment, presumably due to generally having more family commitments in the UK. There are also some grumbles from them that the package is not attractive enough to make them go. Uptake among the RHS'ers is quite healthy, especially among the PPY part time guys. Going to Canada makes them full time and thus tops up the P60 quite nicely. Not to mention all the lay overs in the caribbean with some of the fantastic CC at Sunwing ;)

Sounds great! What experience do they usually require as NTR?

I am considering applying back to TOM next month having been surplus back in 2010. Since TOM I've gained 738 command experience which I'm hesitant to give up completely. If Thomson are short of Captain volunteers for Canada would anyone know whether they might consider offering an FO with experience in the left seat a temporary winter command to fill the Canada requirement? I'm guessing the answer is no, but if you don't ask......

Hi Worldoffe. As it is a new departure for recruitment to include NTR I'm afraid there is nothing to pass on with regard to requirements. All will be revealed on the TUI job advert. www.tuijobsuk.co.uk

LOCO...you are right, temporary winter Canada commands are not going to happen. On a more general note, in excess of 20 permanent full time commands have just been announced for next summer, and the retirement profile accelerates over the next few years, ( including me!), leading to a reduction in time to command in TOM.