It may well be at the moment and that might keep some in jobs and enable bonus payments for some for a year or two. OTOH regardless of the current balance sheet/share price the reputational damage has been done.....and that's probably of more concern for stakeholders and potential stakeholders.

Hi all,

I have a question, do you know if it is mandatory to have an Easa UK Caa issued licence in order ot join BA or is it enough to have an EASA licence?

You need a UK licence before joining. So once they make you an offer (if they do) you begin the process during your noticed period.

So what are we thinking now?
Do we think that new pilots will be needed after all this IT stuff.

Not sure there is anyone in the world who could answer that question right now. Including the recruitment team.

My money would be on no recruitment for the forseeable future...

BA under Cruz have taken the decision to cut as much cost as they can - Buy On Board, outsourcing of IT, and probably more that we on the outside aren't party to. (Minimising) Cost is King, and any department head that can cut their area's bottom line will be encouraged to do so. Strategically the growth of Norwegian and other Lo-Cos seem to have thoroughly spooked them, and it seems they are trying to compete on cost - whether that's the right way of doing things I've no idea. I've got my opinion, but I'll save that for the spotters forums.

What does this mean for aircrew? I've been saying it for a while, sweating the assets. No more recruitment until BA are on the verge of a schedule collapse, or outsource some routes at a lower "cost" via a bit of creative accounting. Those currently employed will be asked to work longer, for less, and probably a raid on Ts & Cs also. It wouldn't surprise me if an Irish Subsidiary gets set up too, like SAS are planning.

But, I've been called out for being too negative before.

I do not think it's going to happen for any of you.
I do not see the company in the same light as it once was.
The changing scene is not going to bode well for life time employment.
The idea of them being a top tier company will seem ludicrous in years to come.
What you thought of them is about to change.
What you once thought of them will never return.

I do not see them creating another low cost, low service company.
They are that already.
They already have another ultra low cost, ultra low pay company in Vuling/Level.

What I think will happen is BA City will expand to compete with Easy/Ryan/J2.
First at Stansted, then Gatwick with 320s/73s.
Soon enough it will encroach on Heathrow, first with little ERJ, then big ones.
Then come the baby 'buses', then the big B-s and big buses..
No one is safe.

Don't spend your money on anything.
Invest and save everything.
For no longer will you be able to work till 65.
You won't want to do it past 55.
All jobs will be short term contracts from now on.

Sorry for being so pessimistic, I'm just trying to be a realist.

BA have got a pilot surplus. Not a big one, but certainly on SH Airbus they've over-cooked recruitment. Some say they did this because late 2017 was the provisional delivery date for the the A350. But someone with a beard and a tabard cancelled that plan at what seems, very short notice. So BA have now got too many A320 pilots at LHR. So they're allowing some to leave during engagement freezes (first 5 years) as FPP's arrive.
Hence the slowdown.

Watching the vultures on the carcass here, I'd like to add : we're good. Find us a new CEO and we are better. But your armchair hypotheses are to be honest, a load of b......

Seconded. The IAG group just made £1.5 Billion in profit of which the vast majority (as usual) was down to the airline that some are saying here is in dire straits. IAG would be monumentally stupid to significantly mutilate their cash cow. Things definitely need to change as regard cost cutting above all else but I would hope some form of salutary lesson has been learned in the last week or so. Alex Cruz has been left in absolutely no doubt as to the depth of feeling on the shop floor recently on Yammer (which he so likes to use) with some people directly calling for his resignation. There is one particular post from a 777 Captain - that I wholeheartedly agreed with - which was scathing in the extreme. He (Cruz) may not have responded to it but he can't fail to have taken notice. This is hopefully the moment of the Company's nadir. It simply has to be.

As regards to the future, well we're talking momentary blips here in terms of pilot numbers. The overall trend is for people needed, regardless of a big compensation bill in the short term. For starters there's an 18 month waitlist for Right to Request Part Time, plus a potentially big take up of the new Aspirational options. Further on 2019/2020 sees a "big" bulge of retirements (in whichever context you take big to mean I don't know but this came from the pilot training manager). More new Long Haul aircraft arriving from next year as more Short Haul slots continually get converted to Long Haul. It will be moving in the right direction again. This year was always going to be comparatively slow, I don't know how many more times that needs to be emphasised. Perhaps not as slow as it has turned out to be once Cruz renegotiated the A350 deliveries (as stated above) and chopped the SH flying programme but 2017 was never the big recruitment year.

The future need in the light of recent events perhaps may not be as full on as 2015/2016 but there's still people needed, make no mistake. Although the accountants and management may not like it, you still need pilots to run an airline (for now).

Interesting to see the optimists v pessimists here.
Somewhat understandable when one is trying to get a foot on any ladder.
Problem is BA is trying to be Premium and Loco at the same time.
Crazy strategy. All it has done is destroy the Premium brand.
The day I was offered a "bacon buttie" for breakfast having paid over 3000 stg
for a one way Business ticket PHX-LHR was the day it became clear there is no direction.
No surprise the ME carriers are destroying the legacy airlines

It's a shame really , BA to me was always the aspiration, the place you really wanted to be for security and a career.
But now guys and gals prefer there lifestyle at locos , watching BA slowly crumble under its confusion of what it wants to become.
Mr Cruz should never have made so many cuts !

Give the BA bashing a break it's all very boring. It still remains one of the best airlines to fly for in the U.K. And it's terms and conditions (although worse than used to be) are still the best.

Every time they recruit floods of people come from Easy and Ryan very few people are going in the other direction!

No the quality of product is not as high as the ME carriers but they have always had money thrown at them so it's not a fair comparison Emirates profits have nose dived Ethihads investments have all failed loosing them billions and Qatar are just plain mental whereas BA/IAG make money and lots of it so all this talk of crisis is rubbish. I believe they will be around for a long time to come and terms and conditions won't get any worse any one that says otherwise is scaremongering.

P.S I have worked for these mithical ME Airlines and wild horses would not drag me back.

Here is the way I see the future for a new pilot at BA.

Your plane records everything.
The company knows everything about the way you operate it.
They will use everything you do to determine your usefulness to them.

Then based on your performance, six month zero hour contracts will be issued on an 'as needs' basis.

No training costs.
No vacations.
No sick leave.
No benefits.

Too high fuel burns.
Too few single engine taxis.
Too many late check in's.
Too hard a landing.
And your services will no longer be required.

Now you thought you'd escape the carnage over at Ryan, buy joining BA.
You didn't actually buy off on that 'world's favorite airline' thing did you?
Chaps, it's only just begun.

Is it true that Level first officers will make E2500 a month?
There's you new BA pay scale.
Still want the job?

Start a back up plan.

Get rejected did you?

Button pushed ignored.

What a load of :mad:

Why so anti BA did they find you out and not employ you??

I think there are plenty of people in other UK airlines that would disagree with you. Myself included. Actually, if the majority of BA staff were to remove that stick from their rectum and drop the 'my job is more important than your job' persona, they may get more respect from the rest of the airline community.

I might not agree with some of the language used above but it's not an entirely unreasonable sentiment.

We have no idea what the result for employees will be for last week events....but the bonus schemes have been historically p poor compared with most of the completion, even after a good year...so next year.........

As far as flight crew are concerned there seem to be some issues surfacing with the replacement to Bidline that some think may well effect roster quality and quality of life.

I think that's a very unfair comment and says more about your own "issues" than those of most BA staff. I have been flying for 13 years now and in that time I have flown for several other UK companies along with BA for the past year. I am in no way a Cheerleader of BA and will be the first to point out its failings I also don't see BA as "Better" than anyone else or look down my nose at other Airlines. I also see there are many benefits to working for a LCC or Charter but in my experience terms and conditions are not one of them. As said I have worked for several U.K. Companies and have applied for most of the others so have a very good understanding of what's on offer else where and In my experience this is as good as it gets. PPJN will tell the story in my first year I will make early/Mid 70s in salary, a pension contribution of 13%, 6 weeks off spaced equally, PHI, LOL, world wide staff travel, free type rating That's far better than the Zero hour contract I would get at Easy or Ryan, the 10/13th salary at Monarch plus these guys all charge 30k for ratings.

On another note before coming here I proscribed to a similar feeling about BA pilots but having worked here it's totally unjustified, on the whole they are amoughst the best guys and girls I have flown with.

Maybe it's not the BA guys that need to pull that sick out.

Just for info Monarch is now full time again , but the hours you fly are probably equivalent to part year ( with full year pay MADNESS) about 750ish
Anyway I believe the choice at BA is fantastic!! You can make the job fit around you (with seniority) which you just can't do at other airlines

There's a reason that there's a number of us stressing (to a greater or lesser extent) about when / if we'll get yanked out of the hold pool, and I would suggest that ego is a long way down the list.

Pay, Lifestyle and Career Progression are my number 1,2 and 3 reasons for wanting this. Not necessarily in that order.

I must admit that even if we aren't taken out of the pool straight away I would be astounded if they didn't keep us swimming.
That really is chucking money down the toilet. I know they have done that in the past but surely if there is an easy way to save cost then that would be it!

Wiggy surely it can't be coming as a surprise to people that there will be less roster control under JSS. Regardless of how its been sold, JSS is just a preferencing system, no more, no less. As you're not going to be able to see the lines in advance, it is my understanding that there will be close to zero control like we get now under Bidline. The other problem is that once the union agreements have taken their toll JSS will not function as it is supposed to. We'll end up with Carmen MkII where nobody is happy.

Yep, those who voted for it after believing the union hard sell are in for a very nasty shock when they see how much control they have lost and how much the company have gained One of the best rostering systems in the world has been chucked out for a few scraps and Alex Cruz has been handed exactly what he wanted, huge mistake.

Agree with you and Max, certainly it should be no surprise at all to those who have seen various "innovations" in our scheduling over the years...

Correct - EK's profit nosedived from 7.7 billion last year to 2.5 Billion this year.

This woeful profit of 2.5 Billion is still 1 Billion more than IAG's. Not bad for a single airline against IAG's many airlines.

Good luck with the applications everybody.

Yeah not bad when you own the friggin oil supply

Craggenmore...

Having just checked those figures, I agree that EK's profit was 2.5 Billion. Just check the currency units though, does make one heck of a difference...

Whoops
 

Dirham fail. Doh!

An 85% drop in profits is fairly dramatic no matter how you twist it. Considering they have had an airport built for them (actually 2), most of their aircraft gifted to them, no unions, unbelievable amounts of slave labour, cheap oil and no social taxes, frankly there is no excuse for this not being the most profitable airline in the world!

I agree though they produce a good product.

Madness
 

Ditching Bidline for a preference system is stupid. I would be interested to know the rational behind any decision to do that.

The rationale was a dip!!!!! membership, a convincing BACC and very close ballot results.
It's only the Roster production side. Current Ops processes remain as before. So roster stability still in place.

It's not a preference system.

Jb5000, yes it is. Are we going to be able to see each individual line we are bidding for pre roster release a la Stage 1 of Bidline? The answer is no. So basically JSS is the equivalent of being on a Blind line expressing preferences at Stage 2.

No it's not. You are bidding for specific trips, types of trip and days off.

The system generates many (hundreds of thousands..) of lines that satisfy your criteria and when those junior to you have bid it whittles down your lines until you have one possibility remaining at which point it locks in.

If one bid group can't be satisfied it then moves further down your bid groups until one can be so it's possible to rank your bids in decreasing importance.

It's not a preference system at all. As you might have guessed, I think it'll be way better.

That's how preference bidding systems work. You put your top preference in, if you can't get it, it gives you your next preference, and so on.

By that definition stage 1 of current bidline is a preference system then.

With the exception that today you can see entire the line of work you want. With this new system you can't. No seeded blind lines either. It also means no one will know what they are doing until 2 weeks before the start of the month, quite different to today. The rules driving the preferences are hidden and given BACCs track record the control of those will cede to the company over the coming years. It all favours BA.

For those who know Carmen, it's a :mad: storm heading our way.

EK Profits
 

I understand EK profits were just over US$300m from the airline business.


Emirates airline profits plunge 82.5% in past year | UAE News | Al Jazeera

While personally I'm disappointed to see the end of bidline, I believe the above point to be incorrect. I'll wait for someone who has the actual documents to hand to confirm this but I'm pretty sure one of the benefits of JSS was final rosters published earlier than is the case today.