Hi Lovejoy I know it's frustrating and you can't do anything else but don't worry about it. The plan at the moment seems to change with the wind, at my management forum just under a month ago indications were that the FPP's were about to start and some form of external recruitment would reopen at the end of the summer. Now in the space of a couple of weeks, unpaid leave has been offered and I gather some FPP's have had their courses put back into early next year? (All rumour until it's confirmed). So as I said, what's fact now will be last week's plan very swiftly so who knows? I would definitely be surprised though if there is any significant direct entry long haul recruitment next year though as there are large numbers of people now unfrozen and for the coming few years. (Unless of course it really kicks off again and the company can use the training capacity excuse to bypass seniority).

Unfortunately, BA and other airlines have been doing this sort of thing for years.

I know many people who have passed BA selection but never actually joined due to changing operational requirements and a finite hold pool time.

Best of luck.

Thanks everyone.

If I'm honest I'm sitting pretty in my current seat, and reasonably happy where I am, so there is no urgency about it.

It's just the rest of life that's continuing to move along... I need to seriously consider where I am to place my family in the short & long term as we have other needs to address.

My own gut feeling is that we won't hear anything till Q4 this year, with courses to run Q1 & Q2 next year. I base this purely on here say, rumour and wishful thinking.

I've known colleagues to swim & expire up to 4 times before finally getting lucky.

Recruitment is brutal.

Well aware of those figures, but he wasn't talking about LHS. He was asking about initial postings after hold pool...

Ahh yes, should probably RTFQ x 2!

With all the various rumours flying around, an email update is expected for those in the hold pool at some point in the next week or so.

Ah let's not get the truth get in the way of a good rumour :}

It would be appreciated by those of us quietly swimming, if only to keep the dream alive for now.

And one of those current rumours is volountary redundancy for BA pilots!

Of course it could just be wishful thinking!

They really are getting ridiculous now.
My mate is at the bottom of the seniority and hasn't mentioned it haha

It won't be the bottom of the list they are targeting if true. And I don't believe for one second that it is. Growth on the horizon, upcoming retirements and part-time requests to start accepting. They will need bods.

4468 is right, there's talk doing the rounds......

Well haha or not the rumour is doing the rounds in the company, now where it started and whether it is credible is another matter, could be just rumour, could be management testing the water/flying a kite.

Personally I'd be suprised to see vouluntary redundancies being offered before the company has seen the demand for part time working under the revised arrangements.

Edit to add: Just seen elsewhere one of the Union reps saying it's almost certainly a rumour.

Hmm, in that case expect a memo in the next few days offering it.

To All the Hold-Poolers,

Hang in there guys and stay strong; I know a round of expirations is imminent.

Frustration does not even come close to explaining it I know, but trust me, persevere with it. Re-apply if you need to, suck up the hold pool again (and again, and again...). Work out some way of steadying your nerve at each stage. If it is what you want, you will get there.

It is acknowledged as a ridiculous system from pretty much every department except HR, who appear to be the controlling element.

The reward does out weigh the pain, however, if an equally good job offer comes along in the meantime and you NEED to get out of where you are: take it. I would probably take a definite over a maybe. The BA process has a habit of opening up reasonably regularly; the others may not.

I have been where you guys are now (more than once). The hardest bit was not the hold pool; the hardest bit was during a re-application when mates who previously passed, failed. That was tough.

Good luck and really hope it all pans out.

What is the earliest someone is expiring? Isn't it October?

Hold Pool
 

Nothing new here - after 18 months, people sank in 2009. Recruitment opened again mid 2010.

After 18 months, people sank in 2013 (myself included). Recruitment opened again in late 2014. Those previous 'swimmers' were all 'fast-tracked,' however it was back to Day 1.

LC was a good guy about it however being a professional, wouldn't share his honest opinion on the matter (obviously). Candidates, pilot recruitment & flight operations have to deal with the psychometric profiling piff-paff being line fed to HR, who appear to have the final say. 'It's the way that it's always been done at BA' was the common chorus that I heard at the time. After 12 months swimming you were on the cusp of not being the same person that was assessed. After 18 months you were deserving of a straight jacket!!

The second time around, someone must have seriously screwed up the numbers because with less than 12 months of 'sinking' and the horizon looking extremely bleak for DEPs, recruitment went warp factor 10!

I genuinely hope no one needs to go through this again. However I expect it means little to the powers that be. BA can open DEP recruitment at any stage and have an influx of applications.

Has anybody just emailed Lucy for an update? Wasn't that what she said we should do when we saw her over sandwiches?

I emailed but go no reply. Am just going to see what happens here but apply to everyone I can think of back in the UK. Someone has to be hiring soon hopefully.

To clarify; BA is now offering Voluntary Unpaid Time Off in the Month of June for the B744. So not voluntary redundancy but just a few weeks extra unpaid leave in the summer for those that want it. Limited places available... Hope this helps.

oh dear....

thanks for the update at least it gives some more clarity

I am expiring end of October. Seeing as my sim buddy started his TR in February (he is 320 rated though) just before the slowdown, I'm guessing I'll be one of the first to drown. Still keeping my fingers crossed for a Jan/Feb 2018 start date.

The ten year suspension of retirements, due to increased Compulsory Retirement Age, (CRA) ended n Oct 2016. I have no idea why any floodgate should open in 2017? It should already have started.

Lots of unpaid voluntary leave available apparently!

I suspect you know this but for those that don't I think what has happened is a significant number of the over 55s left ( voluntarily or forced due medicals etc) between the ages of 55-65, there wasn't the step change in the retirement rate last Autumn that some were expecting or even hoping for....Unless there's a massive change, for example in something like Pension Provison/legislation, or a sudden offer of Paid, voluntary retirement, I suspect the current rate of retirements will probably be typical for some time to come.

There is unpaid leave available on several fleets this summer. Mostly for F/Os.

According to the Balpa age demo-graphic figures there is a bit of a bulge of retirements forecast around 2020.

However, a large number of the top 1500 pilots are aged around 50. The real floodgates open in about 15-20 years, but who knows what will be left of BA by then.....

All this assumes every pilot working to 65 and no part time or expansion.

Company sources are saying a big tranche in 2019 AND 2020. However that's of little comfort to the guys trying to stay afloat into 2018. My personal opinion is that there'll be a large take up of the aspirational part time contracts. There's only one new 787 this year, it was always going to be quiet. Things will pick up again from next year, no need for alarm.

I think that all the numbers will change when NAPS is closed down in the next 2-3 years. Why would a late 50s Captain keep working if it's going to have no effect on his pension? I can see a huge number of retirements when the pension situation changes.

Ex wife(s) to pay for?

Flap62
Because they simply can't live without their perceived 'status'!

Cullin Hills

Anyone with an (more than one!) ex-wife, is likely to have a younger partner, and quite possibly a 'new' family too. - Expensive!

Very unlikely, pension changes will have any significant effect on retirements IMVHO!

I suspect it's v rarely status that alone delays retirements beyond 55 these days, it's more likely a conservative ( small 'c') approach to life. As you get older you find crystal balls aren't all they are cracked up to be and IMHO I think in this day and age you need to be a very careful voluntarily dumping yourself out of the job market with up to 10 more potential years to run.

NAPS ain't bad but it's not the be all and end all, especially for those who joined as DEPs and still have dependant kids . .. I think even a single pilot or those of us married only once, and still married look at the sums these days and go "ummm, do I really want to jettison another 10 years of income" when we don't know what interest rates, inflation etc are going to do.

Like you I don't think NAPS closure itself will be an issue, it's more likely to be another tweak in pensions legislation.

"Floodgates" of retirement are an illusion. With advancing age, the natural attrition smooths out the process. In the last 5-10 years of any pilot groups working life, a greater proportion will become medically unfit. Some will reduce their working footprint by such vehicles as part time working. A few will avail themselves of other opportunities. By the time that group reaches age 65 any projection of a " flood" or "bulge" is usually little more than a trickle.

Despite the perceived lure of retirement, for many people it focuses the mind on the limited timescale to achieve one final fiscal sprint. There is also the realisation that The job forces you to keep active, and for many that becomes an important motivator. Pilots at this end of their careers are also likely to be enjoying the best of the respective terms & conditions on offer, and would likely want to enjoy that for as long as possible.

When retirement was typically 55 it was more likely that a greater proportion of any given group would achieve that milestone. A retirement bulge (although still rare) was more conceivable. A decade of more gradual attrition simply provides for a much more gradual slope. Add to that improvements in maintaining medical certification standards, and the process becomes even smoother still.

In summary, retirements are a false hope. The real opportunities are going to come from economic growth.

I take the point that these things might smooth out bulges but retirement, decrease in medical fitness, part time options, they still all lead down one sure path: Recruitment.

"A rose by any other name"....

Rubbish. Early retirements will increase due to the extreme amount of flying current day pilots do. It's too much and the love is lost. I predict many pilots bailing out early on the career. The question is do they go for the part time option or leave all together. Part time has my vote. This is particularly apparent in BA. I often fly with captains who are part time, wanting it or close to giving up all together.

Good info thank you. Do you know if we have to wait till October for all the new part time request etc before any concrete news comes out or do BA know who wants what before?

Precisely why any pilots thinking of joining, should look very, very, very closely!

Yes because BA pilots work more hours for less money and worse T&C's then those of us at the Loco's.

Have to bite my tongue sometimes, but the above is simply ridiculous until the day there's an exodus of BA pilots back to the Loco's.

Those type of comments and/or views sound like they come from someone who has either never worked for RYR or completely forgotten what it's like, either way it's pretty naive to think someone doesn't know what they want having jumped through all the BA recruitment process hoops.

When's the last time HMRC audited a BA pilot?!

What VJW said.

I suspect there's as much/little whinging at BA as anywhere else, though some make more noise than others, and TBH I think a few of the previous posts have been motivated by (perhaps understandable) wishful thinking .

I personally don't see a rush to the door caused by "high flying hours" - in the cold light of day where are these individuals going to jump to? FR, the Gulf, Tescos, the Job Exchange? There is however considerable demand for part time.

FWIW it happens, certainly amongst those non resident in the UK.................................

Was there any substance to this in the end? As you say it would be nice to have a few of these rumours straightened out by the horse's mouth. Especially as they apparently aren't replying to people's emails.

Given the intention to get in touch was stated internally by one of the people responsible, I would hope it wouldn't be too long before you hear something.

Do you foresee BA LH commands coming down from the nearly double decades?

Presumably said person alluded to the situation and what might be written in this email?

As has been said before. There was a very significant spike in recruitment of cadets in the early 90s. These pilots will now be approaching 50 years of age, and already on the top pay scale. They almost exclusively occupy LHS LH. There are hundreds of them, and I wouldn't foresee them going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just as we move out of one period of 'stagnation', another is about to begin.

So I would guess around 2030 before much changes from what we see today? The chance at that time, of BA looking anything like it does now, is highly questionable.

We definitely have a surplus of pilots at the moment!