What has surprised me is that some people who jumped through all the hoops successfully in the very first recruitment drive this year haven't yet been offered courses but are sat in the dreaded holding pool!

Eagles nest. I said guys and girls. The head of pilot recruitment is a guy. Don't offend him as he does post on here:eek:

They have a lot of pilots who help with the actual interviewing but day to day there is only a couple of them. The whole recruitment department is much larger for the whole airline but I am just talking about pilot recruitment.

Regards

Thanks mate:ok:

Ba
 

What surprises me is the high number of fATPLs already employed by BA, surely this would be a great opportunity to recruit loyal company bods from within who have a wealth of experience in various areas (cabin crew, ops, engineering etc) who know how the airline works?! :confused:

Edited to delete my post as in the end - it's pointless! It's just an opinion!

Says the one who went to CTC for 120k!

Edited to say, all in my own humble opinion of course.

Ba
 

WhyByFlier, I was in no way suggesting that any of the fATPLs within BA feel that they are owed anything by the company, and I fully agree that training is a risk and each individual's choice. Nor was I suggesting that they should have any preference over an already rated and experienced pilot. My point was that every week I see several flights cancelled due to a lack of flight crew, BA are absolutely desperate for pilots! With the length of time it takes to open up and run a recruitment campaign, it was merely an observation that it could be a helpful option.

The issue for BA is not selection times but training capacity, so it would make no difference where the candidates came from, internal or external. There is a dreadful lack of capacity in the training system, a legacy of years of stagnation and low training requirement. Now there is a large training requirement and not enough capacity. BA are looking at all sorts of solutions including external training courses so expect to see type rated people being given preference for the foreseeable future.

Ok fair enough and thank you for your measured response. The trouble with BA's manning levels and recruitment is that they haven't yet twigged that they are no longer special. They aren't the pinnacle. Other airlines will offer a more lucrative, stable career and the amount we fly, many aren't terribly fussed about a boeing 380 or an Airbus 787:} it's about money, stability and command. BA are not best on all 3 anymore. Not over a course of a career. Yet they still insist on irrelevant tests, interviews which aren't fit for purpose and a lack of weighting on the wrong attributes. Tell me is their recruitment 'closed loop'? By that I don't mean 'well we haven't had crashes, too many complaints and everyone seems ok on a night stop', I mean are these selected people measuring up against the 'stringent' required profile. How can they be sure? Have they tried relaxing their criteria for a few each batch and comparing?

Where do BA think they're going to find the right stuff? They're running out of options. They need to be flexible, adjust and get real.

As for training capacity - perhaps if it wasn't down to manager's budgets and they were again more measured it wouldn't be so tight. All or nothing it seems.

whybyflier: I was equally sceptical about BA's long and seemingly irrelevant recruitment process but there must be something right about it. I say this because on a fleet of nearly 1000 pilots I can honestly say there has only been one or two times where I have wanted to get out of that jet and away from my colleague as fast as possible.

If it were me I would interview whilst showing candidates around the airline, have lunch together and then a sim test in the afternoon / evening. If that was all good then give the pilot a six month fixed term contract with the agreement that it will become permanent if x, y and z are met. In a previous airline the chief pilot was very honest. "We give out six month contracts and if after that time we like you or more importantly don't know your name then we give you a full time position"

The evidence I see would suggest that BA's system selects the correct people but it very very probably discards many very very capable pilots along the way.

While BA have no trouble getting the numbers through the door, those that have passed their "irrelevant" tests, then I doubt they will change anything in their recruitment process. Why would they? The system has worked for many years now and has provided BA with what they need and want. People saying that the selection is irrelevant or dated or anything else are still missing the point. BA are getting the numbers through the door with no problems, occasionally they relax their criteria but that merely tells you that they are still, usually, able to cherry pick from whoever is out there. When that small pool is exhausted they widen their criteria a little. It does not suggest that there is a recruitment problem.

As I said before the problem is capacity in the training system not in getting people through the door. The recruitment requirement this year is large and some if those that come in will probably do some external training but this will be minimised by taking type rated people first.

And that's where BA's retirement home - their brothers in arms, CTC, come in......

whybyflier

I'm not sure whether this motivation alone would bring you any job satisfaction in the BA's business model.

No, I'm not married to the job. I work to get as much money to do and buy all the nice things I want, with my family and friends, that I can. Flying is a nice way of doing that. The command gives me more autonomy over my day. The stability gives me less stress. A bigger plane takes me away from home more, more boring time in the cruise, less take offs and landings and more chance of certain illnesses.

What else do people work for if its not money, stability and progression?

And before you drop the lil nugget you can go into management, training (TRI) and recruitment in easy as an FO as well.

I agree with your argument but what I do not accept is that much as it works at your outfit it might not fit into BA's model and that's why recruitment would be keen to identify similar candidates this by say unsettling them with test you described as 'irrelevant tests, interviews which aren't fit for purpose'. BA's secret in recruitment falls between the lines of lateral thinking (thinking from outside the box) to arrive at what you want. Only those who align with BA's point of view get the nod.

It has worked for them over the years; why would you change a working formulae just because they think you should change!?

And that's conducive to:

Is it?

Incongruously juxtaposed wouldn't you say?

It's my opinion that it should be a long grilling about why you want to join, who you are, what you've done and where you want to be. And then a solid sim - lots of raw data, holds, bad weather, some failures, some CRM issues and a nice lunch together somewhere in between. Any other pseudoscience is there to make CC/pilot-cum-psycologists feel justified and remove accountability like any good manager should. 'Twas the selections fault m'lord.

To counter your argument for BA's selection- are you noticing a difference between BA selected pilots and BMI unselected pilots? Voila! Think outside that box. Personally, I choose not to get in it in the first place.

There are many posts on this and other threads over the years critical of BA's recruitment process. BA seem quite happy with it. Bottom line is simple. You don't have to join BA with it's silly recruitment processes.

It just makes one wonder why so many people spend so much time being critical of a process in a company they "choose" not to be a part of. Smacks too much of sour grapes or envy to me. If you choose not to be part of BA then why give a tinker's cuss about how they recruit?

A320 link live yet?
 

Whilst I see the A320 has now been added to the list of types for further recruitment, I don't see a live link for it yet, only for the Boeings on a different page, with cut off date for 6th October.

Have I missed something here ? Or can you use that link? As after searching again I only get the live link for the Boeings.
Thanks.

The 320 DEP page went offline the 18 september (deadline cutoff).
Am i missing anything?:sad:

whybyflier

My point is using lateral thinking (initiative, creative, persuasive, negotiator et la) to align one's profile to BA's own, while being fairly comfortable with the tests & interviews, what-ever one might make of them, and you should get a nod.

I'll still accept your case but will not agree as Juan Tugoh, bex88 & others have best laid bare.

A few days ago, the A320 and 757 were added to the types required but the live link button for online assessment only shows the Boeings.

PFO just arrived into my mail box.
Best of luck to those still in the game.
I guess my future will be east, far east, for a long time.
BA was a dream for me, but i realise there is more people with more experience than me so it's fair they get more attention.
Thanks to all for the valuable infos:ok:

PFO for me. Current Monarch SFO. I didn't even get to attend the 1st selection process!!! A point blank rejection after my initial online application. I didn't think I was that much of a :mad: on paper!

So much for BA gagging for 320 rated pilots. I have 1800 hours on type and potentially out of job come April. With not enough hours for the Middle East and easyJet unlikely to take me back this could be the end of the road for me. :{

Sprinkles, I am sorry you didn't make it but 5 of your colleagues got offers this week. On the positive side if enough of your colleagues make it through in BA and other carriers then there may be no need for forced redundancies at MON.

It took me 3 attempts to get into BA, and while definitely not to be recommended, failure does breed determination and character.

regards

Out of interest, got offered a place in the pool or offered a start date?

Cheers for the reply binsleepen.

Seniority is my only hope. Fortunately that might keep me safe but questions will have to be asked on the longevity of the business. But that's not relevant here.

Unfortunately things aren't as simple with the respect of people leaving and redundancies. But you're right the more voluntary redundancies and notices being handed in should decrease the amount of compulsory redundancies handed out. But, like I say it's not that simple sadly.

One door closes and another opens and all that crap! :}

Sprinkles,

i don't know your total time but with 1800 hrs on a fbw airbus i think you qualify for at least a couple of airlines in the ME.
I wish you all the best:ok:

Any info regarding the B744 fleet?

747 fleet, I am not on it but it's a large fleet still around 45-50 aircraft (best estimate) and whilst it is being retired this will take about 10 years. Good route network, those on it seem to love it. Being DEP you will not get a choice of work due to seniority so expect blind lines. Often these work out quite nicely actually.
Starting pay is 52k and FPA is £630 a month. Duty pay is probably up around the 1k a month. Full time is about 4 trips a month.

This is what I am told by some that I know on that fleet but it's just a ball park. I am sure someone else can be more accurate.

Not a bad summary but I suspect many junior full timers are going to be looking at 5 or more trips a month as most of the long range stuff migrates onto the newer fleets.

It will be interesting to see how the EASA rules and new Bidline change how the work allocation happens on the Jurassic Fleet, particularly as the long range trips move to the newer, more efficient fleets. 6 transaltantics a month anyone?:8

Non Type Rated DEP
 

So with the trawl for 320 rated apparently struggling to attract enough people. DEP on to LH open and the managed path for military pilots advertised is there any possibility Non Rated DEP will make it down to those of us flying Turbo Props and Regional Jets. Like many of my colleagues I would very much like a shot at BA and the opportunity to progress in the industry.

See my post 721. Not much has changed in 4 days....

Regards

binsleepin,

Hope you're still enjoying BA 6 years in. Sounds like you are. Have you joined the recruitment department?

Just wondering if BA will ever look to recruit experienced A380 drivers in the future?

Not interested myself but I know others are.

Always good to know ones worldwide options on a rare fleet..!

Ultimately nobody knows, but that said it's increasingly looks like it's always going to be a small fleet in which case my guess is (IMHO) all the seats easily filled by internal transfer.

Sprinkles

Whilst the prospect of redundancy must be extremely stressful, try not to be overly disheartened by the rejection from BA. On paper I'm sure you appear a safe bet; greater than 1500hrs on the bus with a background established in two respected operators. I think you are probably selling yourself short when it comes to airlines in the Gulf. I know of at least one where you exceed the requirements. The ME isn't ideal but it's a stable job with better command prospects than BA. Hopefully you won't have to venture that route but if if you do..:ok:

As consolation, the BA DEP process is littered with traps which could see you fall at the slightest of hurdles. In my opinion and experience, the further that you get within the process only leads to greater disappointment when you fail. All "offers" will be for a holding pool with no guarantee of a start date. There has been an ongoing and disheartening record of people making it, only not to actually make it in the end. And whilst I'm sure LC and his team of recruiters see this as completely undesirable, it has occurred in the last two campaigns. Been there, bought the t-shirt. It isn't pretty.

BA have went from a position of dumping a DEP hold pool and denouncing any future prospect of further DEP hire to a desperate need for DEPs across multiple fleets in less than 12 months. There is now a requirement for LH hire, something that had been completely discounted by many within. From this it is difficult to fathom what's going on. However could a hold pool place be argued as a safe bet considering previous and more recent occurrences? A hard one to answer I'd say.

Best of luck for the future

Callsign & Bin spleen,

Just out of interest, for those who are successful when are the 'projected' courses for new LH recruits?

Thanks

Given how short they are on the 744 I'd imagine the courses would start just as soon as you could work your notice with your present employer....

Oh... Thanks!

The recruitment process takes 2-3 months at the minimum from application to hold pool. Job offers are given a minimum of 3 months prior to courses starting in order to allow the applicant to give in their notice to their present employer.

Therefore for applications going in now I wouldn't expect a training course before the end of March '15, but that is just my opinion.

Regards