Thanks for the info Biggles88. Fingers crossed :ok:

You can also transfer money out of BAPP and into your own SIPP any time you like.

How long are people waiting in the hold pool for SH recently? I note a post from May from someone saying they’d been waiting two months.

I’ve been in the SH hold pool since mid-May. Hoping for some course start dates soon :)

Just as bit of news for potential new joiners today, a Chief Pilot video has been delivered to our inboxes (mostly about ongoing industrial negotiations) in which he says he wants to share with us some exciting ideas for flight ops to benefit both us and the company. The cynic in me is guessing he’s referring to Klaus’ 24 hour Long Haul slips downroute :yuk:

Heisenb3rg I’m guessing it’s got to be the destinations where there are regular and daily flights, Heathrow stuff like Nashville, Durban, Charleston and Gatwick trips like Mauritius and the Maldives etc would stay safe because the schedule simply wouldn’t allow it. For destinations like Los Angeles and San Fran though it’s an utter game changer and I agree with you, there’s literally no point in doing long haul if all you’re doing is slipping 24 hours an an airport hotel downroute. The sickening thing though is they’re (read Klaus is) trying to sell it like it’s in our interests because we’d have more “time at home”. It’s in reality their wet dream to reduce costs even further at the expense of flight safety.

This is why we cannot back down now in these industrial negotiations because once BA/IAG management see weakness they’ll be like a cat with its prey, being cruel and vindictive until the life force of the workforce has disappeared.

How do you know if you’re in the short haul hold pool or not? Are you informed once you’re successful in the sim?

Aer Lingus currently do 24 hour layovers to LA and SFO for the crew. I don’t think it’s airport hotels they stay in though. I guess IAG will benchmark their long haul crew costs vs the rest of the group owned airlines and come up with the lowest number for all.

Not sure of the actual hour requirement Percula however as a junior pilot you’ll be nowhere near the seniority required for the fleet, especially now it’s down to one aircraft. To the best of my recollection it’s actually more senior than the 787 and the rest of the long haul fleets so the required Airbus hours would be a given by the time you achieved that level of seniority. (Unless you joined in Gatwick on the Max :} but that’s another story!)

Most junior LCY captain 1026
Most junior LCY co-pilot 3327

Most junior 777 captain 1244
Most junior 777 co-pilot 4555

Most junior 787 captain 1608
Most junior 787 co-pilot 4553

Most junior 747 captain 1643
Most junior 747 co-pilot 4531

Most junior A380 captain 1653
Most junior A380 co-pilot 4557

Most junior A350 captain 1803
Most junior A350 co-pilot 3194

So, as Rex says, the LCY Airbus is more senior than other fleets for captains, although the A350 just beats it into second place for co-pilots. It’s certainly more senior than the 787.

For context if you were to join tomorrow you’d be in the late 4500s seniority-wise.

We have regular 26 hr LH layovers on in Cathay Pacific. In the winter we do Boston, which is about 15hr flight time each way and get 26hrs on the layover! I’m on a HKG-YVR-JFK-HKG pattern as I type this. 35 hrs off in YVR and 25:30 in JFK. Averaging about 870 hours a year as a 777 Capt.......living the dream😂

Nearly all EK layovers are 24 hours. Makes it really hard when you have to try and sleep twice in 24 hours.

Norfolkungood yes but it’s slightly different in Cathay as you’re flying with 4 crew, most BA flights are 3 crew.

Somebody just like you.

Nigel Something

True. Unfortunately seems all our lords and masters want to reduce manning/ rest to the minimum to increase the productivity. Our lot would jump at the chance of 3 man. They tried it but as most of our departures are around midnight the FTLs didn’t quite allow it. We now do a large proportion of our LHs with 2 Second Officers as opposed to a 2 FOs. So the FO just gets the wrong rest and still has to be in the seat for landing! Notwithstanding our experience levels have dropped through the floor.....

I fear for all of us where this is all leading.....

If the pay rise offer of 11% over three years were to go ahead would that apply to new joiners’ salaries too or only existing employees?

Do guys find they have much savings left over every month with the salary being as low as it is?

Being bottom of the seniority list is it not still possible to swap flights once the roster is out and get options in there that you like?

Thanks!

BA don’t do “SOs”. On joining all copilots are fully trained and qualified as RHS for two crew ops. As Wiggy says many LH trips on 777/787/744/ and a few on A380 are operated with two crew. For a new LH FO, people are recruited with sufficient big jet hours to allow them, after the Type Rating to operate on two pilot trips immediately after Line Training as FO.

Thanks for the reply Wiggy :)

does anyone have a copy of the current PP payscale that new joiners sign on that they can paste here?

Thanks!

Correct, an interim measure in times of high recruitment when there is not enough Line Training capacity. BA do not have a Policy of employing semi permanent Cruise only, partially trained SOs.

There are other places to live than London! LGW get very few layovers 2 a month if your lucky. LHR many more. Lots of guys commute from LHR, but to be honest looks like a nightmare to me.

I’m Gatwick based (three years at Heathrow before) and rarely do a day trip in LGW unless it’s called from standby on reserve. However I am senior there and still have to do multiple nights in Gatwick (maybe 10 or so). As others have said not the best base for commuting unless, like me, you live in one of the few nightstop destinations and even then it’s a drag.

The workload gets high all year round too if all you’re doing is bidding for nightstops because, by their nature, they’re mostly six sector single nightstops over two days with long links either side. I was told Gatwick was seasonal and quiet in the winter but that doesn’t apply if you ask Carmen for nightstops. Flew 95 hours in January, my first month there, March was just as bad. A lot of nights in my own bed though!!

I wouldn’t necessarily say that LGW is more likely than LHR as I think we have nearly a full compliment in the RHS here, maybe a few less. According to iBid and looking at the historic compliment, however, it looks like LHR is under by nearly 30 pilots, possibly more. There’ll be many more unfrozen pilots leaving the Airbus from Heathrow next year than Gatwick too.

Gatwick is a far friendlier base and nicer place to work IMHO vs Heathrow, you actually get to know people here and the knob jockeys in the LHS are considerably fewer. The aircraft though are absolutely knackered and the number of MEL items you can be confronted with upon boarding the aircraft for the first time can be frustrating and downright exhausting.

More for anyone considering Gatwick vs Heathrow to be honest rather than the original poster..