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Originally Posted by wiggy
(Post 10407233)
TBH over the years the Reps, former lot or this current tranche, have always maintained a work to rule would be ineffective...define “work to rule for” starters..even issuing a call for people not to volunteer has it’s risks....If you have the chance when next in T5 grab a passing rep and ask about this, it is interesting...and TBH amongst other things it gives you a bit of a depressing insight into human nature, (well, some people’s nature). Now....back to the new qualified pilot scheme...looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..so no doubt many outside BA also see it as a good thing.....which brings into play (again) the point that BALPA campaiging against this scheme would be used by some to demonstrate how out of touch “we” are with those that want to join the industry as pilots. Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work. As I outlined above make it a multi issue campaign. Take your pick. Yes there are individuals who will disregard results of a ballot. Even if just 50% of the body adhered to a work to rule then the leverage created would be significant. The alternative is to do nothing and watch the chisel continue to chip away at t and c. |
Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work. [/QUOTE]What might be be coming later this year Wiggy? Being a junior 320 skipper, I find it hard to believe this gig can actually get any worse?? |
Originally Posted by frozenpilot
(Post 10407351)
What might be be coming later this year Wiggy? Being a junior 320 skipper, I find it hard to believe this gig can actually get any worse?? |
Ah.... At least us junior trash may get some weekends off... albeit unpaid! regards |
looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..
More seriously, I'm not denying that opening up BA to modular cadets is generally a good thing. I just wish they hadn't done it in a way which discriminates based on financial background. BA used to be one of the few airlines who thought talent was more important than the abiity to pay. This and the last version of the cadet scheme would suggest they now think otherwise. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and the recruitment team will manage to get an improvement in the future, but that seems unlikely. |
Won’t be long before you’re having L3 cadets on poor pay even after line checked. |
Originally Posted by frozenpilot
(Post 10407351)
What might be be coming later this year Wiggy? Being a junior 320 skipper, I find it hard to believe this gig can actually get any worse??
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Originally Posted by ManUtd1999
(Post 10407812)
I just wish they hadn't done it in a way which discriminates based on financial background. BA used to be one of the few airlines who thought talent was more important than the abiity to pay. This and the last version of the cadet scheme would suggest they now think otherwise.
B.A. Management should come up with a catchy name for the £18K course. Perhaps ‘Return of the Nigels’ would work ? Or, ‘Revenge of the Nigels’. ‘Klaus’s M.O.’ would only make sense to a small number of people, and it’s not very catchy. |
Nope, it’s my fifth... I’ve been through numerous redundancies. However, a junior short haul command at BA is terrible.. |
The other problem with Work To Rule at BA is... what's the rule? The psychedelic maze that is Bid Line Rules (BLR) is very hard to navigate without taking a wrong turn. Individuals would be exposing themselves to dismissal far too easily.
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Rumour that 767 has been sold and BA may revert to 744 sim.Just for info for those awaiting assessment. |
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123
(Post 10411475)
Has it been confirmed that new recruits have to pay £18k for A320? |
Give Klaus time... |
For what it's worth, when I joined my first commercial outfit (and this wasn't that many moons ago!), we were bonded for £15k, payable up front before commencing the type rating, albeit paid back in 36 monthly instalments...
The starting salary at that outfit plus the bond I paid was still significantly less (I'm talking greater than £10k) than the starting salary these new pilots would earn in their first year at BA. Just my "two cents", but I don't see the problem with the £18k up front given the starting salary. A very controversial viewpoint I'm sure but sadly its the nature of the industry. I can't think of many another professions out there that requires you to pay up front to get the job. |
Worth pointing out the starting salary for those paying for TR is significantly less (about £20k less) than experienced DEP starting salary. There’s simply no justification for this. IAG get a reduced flight ops budget and pilots take it up the tailpipe while shareholders laugh all the way to the bank. |
It's quite simple, a message to all those wannabes, don't pay it, it'll soon disappear. The only reason these schemes exist is because people are prepared to pay it.
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Reversethrust - the same argument was made years ago by current Ryanair pilots to new hires paying 30k for their TR. How did that work out? |
Do they pay £18k upfront and get the money back after a period of time, similar to NLH bond, or is this paying for a type rating? Starting salary of £20k?! |
Starting salary is mid 30s for SSP payscale which has been in existence for quite a few years now, long before I joined. Goes up pretty quickly though.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. BA works purely on market forces. They don’t care about employee morale or particularly much about what BALPA thinks either. In the last financial year for the company, they have closed the FSS pension and have announced an additional dividend to the shareholders which is pretty much identical to the sum of money saved by the closure. They have no problem at all with taking money from anyone who will let them, and giving it to their shareholders. Current pilots collectively allowed the company to raid their pensions and close bidline for JSS, and new joiners will allow the company to take £18k from them. When they’ve been doing that for a while, I expect internal pilots will have to pay for aspirational type courses. And so it will continue until individuals stop applying and start leaving in excessive numbers. Until that day, we’ll have more and more of our money redirected to the shareholders. They take as much as they can get away with from the customer, and they take as much as they can get away with from the employee. It is that simple. |
Originally Posted by Stocious
(Post 10412403)
Starting salary is mid 30s for SSP payscale which has been in existence for quite a few years now, long before I joined. Goes up pretty quickly though.
GS-ALPHA. Spot on. |
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster
(Post 10412356)
Reversethrust - the same argument was made years ago by current Ryanair pilots to new hires paying 30k for their TR. How did that work out? |
I will be doing the sim assessment fairly soon. Applied under one of the DEP FO ZFT campaigns last year, there has never been a mention of having to fund a TR. Is this only going to be applicable to the new CPL/IR campaign??
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Yes it is.
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14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy No shows at interviews `Unable to fill slots...... People are beginning to smell the coffee........ |
Originally Posted by red9
(Post 10418745)
14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy No shows at interviews `Unable to fill slots...... People are beginning to smell the coffee........ |
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320
(Post 10418749)
Finally...
6k+ in various large aeroplanes, plus other vaguely exotic stuff and previously worked in similar cultures. Did stages 1-3 last time around before accepting something else. Applied recently again on a whim but the thought of going through the hassle of 3x trips to LHR at considerable expense to do the same rubbish I previously managed, alongside the clusterf*ck of equal opportunies BA HR, made me realise I just couldn’t. Not for a c.£55k basic and mediocre pension to (likely) sit RHS in a 320 out of LHR working every weekend until the kids have left school, sat next to a 26 year old #BAsmart. Frankly the thought was akin to being repeatedly stabbed in the knackers with a blunt pair of scissors. (N.b I do appreciate most at BA are decent guys and gals). Shame, once upon a time I’d have sold my Gran to work for BA. That grumble aside though, in my opinion it is the best designed recruitment process out there. If you get through it you obviously meet their standards and you really, really want to work for BA. I’m evidently not that person. The process seemingly works well... Fair enough! |
Hi everyone. Managed to work my way through the last two years of this thread and got a lot of answers but if someone could help me out with just a couple of questions I would be very grateful. I have focused on LH questions as this is all I would be prepared to accept even if that meant not joining at all. Please don't view this as arrogant but as I am sort of happy where I am, it is a case of only taking what would work for me.
Pay:
General Lifestyle on LH fleet:
If anyone could take a stab at answering any or all of these, it would be absolutely invaluable so thank you in advance. |
I’ve always found the BA recruitment process a little bit strange tbh. Very set in their ways, I feel there is no scope for example saying “well he didn’t have the best interview, but he seems like a nice guy so lets see how he gets on in the sim”. I remember running into a guy who was once in the holding pool for them, ended up drowning. Applied again and didn’t get through the interview, seems to make little sense to me. That said, my initial airline had an incredibly long winded recruitment process and I saw loads of good guys get canned during that process also. I think like most things, if comes down to how you feel on that particular day and a large degree of luck of the draw in relation to interviewers and sim checkers etc. |
So do we think they will improve the T&C’s or just lower the standards? Answers on a postcard to Waterside...... |
Originally Posted by red9
(Post 10418745)
14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy No shows at interviews `Unable to fill slots...... People are beginning to smell the coffee........ |
I personally know 4 whom have left BA to KLM. With me being nr 5 in June. I have the feeling there are more than that. Looking at iBid there are a fair few Dutch names leaving |
Good for them I say.
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Speaking from my own personal experience, the T’s & C’s on offer at BA, along with the ‘fringe benefits’ far outweigh that of my previous employer.
So for some of us, the move is definitely a positive. Just my two cents though. |
Ibid does not show everyone who's leaving. It does not show RT on my roster and did not happen to my mate who left last November. I would say 20 guys/girls leaving for KLM is probably pretty close.
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Struggling with the accuracy description of a “mediocre” pension too, tell me where you’re going to find better in the UK now given that pretty much all final salary schemes are now closed in all industries, not just ours? In that context, it’s actually pretty decent. |
Originally Posted by RexBanner
(Post 10419845)
Struggling with the accuracy description of a “mediocre” pension too, tell me where you’re going to find better in the UK now given that pretty much all final salary schemes are now closed in all industries, not just ours? In that context, it’s actually pretty decent. I do take your point, “mediocre” is perhaps a little flippant but for somebody leaving either of the above, as but two examples, it’s a definite backward step and probably not industry leading if you already have your feet under the table elsewhere. But yes, I would agree fairly decent in this day and age in the context of UK airlines. |
Virgin has exactly the same company contribution as the new BA scheme so its on par not better. Not only that but they (VS) want to remove this benefit to new joiners. Thomas Cook as you said not available any more either, so whatever you think of the BA pension, you’re not going to find anything better as a new joiner anywhere nowadays. I do take your other points though, BA isn’t for everyone, I’ve wrestled with the decision whether to leave myself over the last few months, I’m staying put and the only reason for that is Long Haul. Short Haul (whilst I’ve already said it’s not as bad as many make out on here) there are better options out there nowadays. |
Virgin hasn't removed anything for new joiners!
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Originally Posted by A320baby
(Post 10420497)
Virgin hasn't removed anything for new joiners!
He didn’t say that they had. |
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