Quite! The real stats don't support such a claim, and how would one explain the right to left on type failure rate?

Can't say I've looked at this in my relatively short time in the company but as an aside, my previous operator had a 67% failure rate and were proud of it. The mind boggles! They've since re-written the command assessment process into yet another shambles and are paying a heavy price with people leaving in their droves.

I hope this isn't the road BA are going down. It's a grim path leading to some painful places for all involved!

Sorry, I'm adding to the drift off topic here. Back to the subject at hand, I hear recruitment numbers for 2016 have been upped to north of 400! It's going to be an interesting year if that's true.

Evening All

2W2R

Of course it can't and is entirely feasible if there are insufficient suitably qualified individuals already on board.

It came quite close in the late 90s for EOG on the old Dan Dare contract. Suitably experienced folks were getting commands with around a year or so in the company. Strangely, the EOG contract changed for the better fairly shortly afterwards, later becoming SHaG.... :oh:

BA have always recruited "Captains" (appreciate that can be seen as a cliche). In short, your seniority allows you to bid for a command. If you are senior enough, you then do the command course on your chosen fleet. IF you pass, you become a Captain. Most do. Some don't.

67% of candidates failing is a good selling point if you're not trying to recruit people to pass it in the first place...... :hmm:

Assessment
 

Hi guys, I've just been offered the dep long haul assessment for next month. Wondering if anyone has done this recently (December/January) and can share anything they recall regarding the latest Maths/English/Aptitude. Cheers a lot.

I don't think the DEP process has changed at all recently, and the process for DEP long haul will be the same as for all other DEP.
There's lots of information on stage 1 in this thread and the previous one, but it's the numerical and verbal reasoning, and the 2 current aptitude tests (crosshairs/numbers/shapes, and the multitasking/capacity exercise where you take radio calls/program the fmc/monitor systems/action an "ecam").

I think a major contributor to Longhaul SFO's not bidding for Shorthaul command has to be the NAPS pension issues (and thats not BA's doing it's the Government's).....

Why would you become a shorthaul captain to create a ~£300,000-350,000 pension liability (i.e. you OWE THE GOVERNMENT).... BA Pensions pay this to the Gov but then charge you MPF rate (currently around 9-9.5% interest PER ANNUM) on this figure.....

If you've got 20+ years to retirement that could virtually WIPE OUT your entire pension!

And no I'm not being melodramatic... the figures are out there!

The problem will disappear when NAPS gets closed to future accrual in the next couple of years and those LH FOs will be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command. Then there will be an unholy rush for those same SH commands as the BARP pension is dependent on the money you put into the pot - command allows more money in from both you and the company. This is a short term problem. Remember though that "direction" is a tool the company can also use to fill empty C32 slots!

I think a major contributor to Longhaul SFO's not bidding for Shorthaul command has to be the NAPS pension issues (and thats not BA's doing it's the Government's).....

Why would you become a shorthaul captain to create a ~£300,000-350,000 pension liability (i.e. you OWE THE GOVERNMENT).... BA Pensions pay this to the Gov but then charge you MPF rate (currently around 9-9.5% interest PER ANNUM) on this figure.....

If you've got 20+ years to retirement that could virtually WIPE OUT your entire pension!

And no I'm not being melodramatic... the figures are out there!
Dave is offline Report Post


Dave is correct. I flew with a SFO who is in Naps and was not taking command for those tax liabilities. It was going to cost him a staggering amount of money so why would you go for a command in his situation?
I can't wait for the next Budget when Mr Osborne will probably end tax relief for those of us in a money purchase scheme.

Juan

You don't understand the NAPS tax problem if you think that closure of the scheme to future accrual will remove the tax liability and make SFOs wish they had already taken a command. The number of Captains who've told me "It's OK. You can tick scheme pays and the problem is removed." They don't understand the situation either, so you are not alone. In fact, the only people who are not too concerned by the situation are those who do not actually understand it.

Looking on the bright side though; at least if the company closes future accrual into NAPS, they'll have to pay their full employer's national insurance contributions rather than making NAPS employees pay it!

GS - as one already paying the darn bill I understand the issue fully. It is only a concern to those in NAPS and, I agree, it is concerning.

It is academic to new joiners except the effect on command opportunities. If it means some SFOs will stay there and never bid for a command I'm sure the new joiners will be very happy, as will I as it increases my opportunities.

Why would LH FOs be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command? The problem does not dissapear. As an aside, anyone who ticks 'scheme pays' without sufficient AVCs to pay the bill immediately, has not sought decent financial advice. Indeed ticking scheme pays at all is only a good idea if you are going to break the lifetime allowance or if you believe the 25% tax free extraction is going to disappear by the time you retire.

Anyway, as you say, we digress from the main subject. I agree with you that the current NAPS tax problem is indeed good for BARP pilots (new entrants) and their command prospects. I've been saying this to BARP guys I fly with for years, in an attempt to cheer them up.

Anyone done stage 2 recently? What was the time taken to hear? I was told 7-10 days but others have told me within 24 hrs.
Anyone know what the recent time is?

I heard within 2 days after stages 1 & 2 (October/November).
7 days after for the sim (December).

Time...?
 

Anyone got any ideas as to how long they had to wait roughly from finding out they were in the hold pool to fleet allocation? I appreciate it is a bit more individual specific - but got the good news last week after successfully applying for the Long Haul DEP, currently 737 rated, and trying to quench my thirst for information!!
Also any numbers for the hold pool?
Rgds!

Fly4more,

After attending a past roadshow one of the BA recruiters made a point of saying they can afford to be fussy when we reached the selection process section on the presentation.

One person asked why the place so much emphasis on the computer test, and there response was it shows that you make it as a pilot and manage a conversion course without failing, which too me doesn't make sense if you are experienced pilots and have been flying for 'X' amount of years does that mean you are likely to fail at BA?

It seems a waste of resource from the BA team to be going on all these roadshow abroad when really they need to maybe evaluate there selection process to be tailored to experienced pilots and not zero hours cadet.

Hundreds/thousands of hours sat with the aircraft in LNAV/VNAV does not necessarily equal good experience.

You could spend several years letting your skills fade (NOTECHS as well as handling skill) so they probably want to assess that you've still got the skills. Makes perfect sense to me.


Having that stage there doesn't make a difference to those competent enough to pass it. But if you didn't have it, you'd lose one stage of filtering that weeds out the less competent applicants.

Hello all,


Just a quick question. On the math assessment on day 1, do you have a paper or is it all mental?

Agreed , i dont BA are concerned about it and yes its a hoop to jump through. And a stage that would certainly count against those more mature types who may find the reversal of the joystick polarity on the cross hairs a real challenge.

You can apply , but your chances of passing the aptitude will be decrese exponentially with age, and that suits BA.

In the old day they just said bog off, you are too old!

BA learned years ago that just recruiting youngsters merely inflated the wage bill and causes promotion issues. There are something like 700 sub1000 seniority captains who were the Prestwick cadets. They sit in the LHS of LH aircraft on pp24 (old scales) with fully paid up NAPS pensions and they cost the company a fortune (through no fault of their own)

So when I hear or read comments about how BA only wants youngsters it just reveals the prejudices and anxieties of those making them. BA wants good pilots (admittedly as determined by own peculiar system) but it doesn't give a stuff about age, sex, colour, creed or religion. They don't look for an old school tie or a secret handshake. You either pass selection or you don't, then if you are in the right place at the right time and they need swimmers from the pool you get a job offer.

Plenty of the younger generation struggle to pass a basic maths test so according to your logic I suppose BA don't want to recruit young or old?