The whole thing is irrelevant to me,but I would like to have seen the experience of some of my colleagues appreciated, and the agony of months unemployed could have been curtailed.

Can we still expect a relatively fast upgrade to command on the SH fleet? Thanks.

Sorry the world doesn’t work like that. Ex Monarch pilots are no more loyal, skilled or experienced than the guys/girls already in the BA holding pool.

In fact those in the pool clearly wanted to join BA having gone through the process already, not simply because their own airline failed recently. How many of the people you refer applied to BA two years ago when the rest of us did?

The pool at BA probably has between 100-200 people swimming in it, some of which for 2 years all trying to better their careers with improved T&C’s and worklife etc. Why you imply there should be a god given right to jump from one of the best employers to the next and to do it sneakily via a back door, I don’t understand. I’m sure the monarch pilots could have applied the last time BA’s recruitment was open- and while you wish they had recognised your colleagues experience immediately after Monarch went under, at least they can all apply now and leapfrog the unrated souls in their pool.

A word of advice for the BA interview to your friends- think carefully about how you’ll answer BA’s first question to you, ‘So why do you want to join BA?’

Impossible to say, as you may have gathered from this thread, you can’t second guess movement/recruitment in BA. After going very junior for 1-2 years, the SH command time has gone back this year to being 7years+ but I really wouldn’t base your decision on joining on current command times. It can change in the blink of an eye and this year was (maybe) skewed by the pension shenanigans ongoing in BA currently. If I was to take an educated guess I’d say commands will come back down to 3-4 years but that’s just a guess.

Standard advice, just get in and see what opportunities come your way.

Good luck

Commands were at around seniority 2200-300 ish. The rest of the commands down in the 3000’s are BMI protected ones. What do we have 4300 pilots now? I think junior commands were an exception and would expect with NAPS closing etc they may remain higher than we expect. Junior commands are not well rewarded financially and are really crap lifestyle wise. Each to their own but I would not join based on an assumption of quick command.

I know this will have been covered before but would anyone mind confirming these numbers for a BA year 1 FO are still correct?

Salary - 56,529/yr
Flight pay - 9.94/hr
Duty pay - 3.52/hr

Based on 800 hours (approx £8k) and 1500 duty hours (approx £5300), I'm assuming total salary is about £70k gross, just under £4k/month after 6% pension contributions. Is this roughly accurate?

Mmmm.

Not at all sure I agree? Number one. The effect of NAPS closure is debatable? Many of our LH senior copilots, simply can’t stomach the idea of a SH command. They’d prefer a smaller pension, or at the very least, pushing it to the last possible opportunity. After which many of them will undoubtedly miss out.

As far as SH commands providing a ‘crap’ lifestyle.. Two things. First, it just depends what you’re comparing it to? If it’s a ‘senior’ LH copilot’s life, then I accept, it’s sub optimal! Compare it to Easy, Jet2, Ryan...... Really?? I doubt it!

So, frankly, I personally imagine, there’s a fair chance that SH commands will remain fairly junior. Especially at LGW. Many people in BA simply hold their nose at the idea of ‘dirty’ SH!

That’s the truth. Life is (currently!) just TOO comfy on LH!

It will change.

I notice on the holdpool update email it mentioned, “Longhaul offers for the moment are being made to those with a current Boeing rating”. Does this mean Boeing only until the number of Boeing rated Pilots in the pool runs out? Or are they going to change to include those who are not Boeing rated too? Any idea on how many LH offers are likely to be made? I appreciate most offers will be for the A320.

Will/do BA open recruitment for Boeing rated guys? Over the last few years I've only seen A320 ads!

4468 - Have you been a Captain at Easy/Jet2/Ryan and BA? Seeing as though it has been mentioned on here that it takes about 13 years inside BA to get the SH command salary close to that of the three LoCo’s you mention, please tell me what the lifestyle is like at BA as a junior Captain that makes it worth it. Bearing in mind two of those LoCo’s have a package worth in excess of £120k a year before bonuses with a fixed roster pattern and home each night - ideal for a having a life outside of work.

I’m not sure ‘can’t stomach’ is the right phrase. We have simply for whatever reason, favoured the long haul lifestyle just like many have before us. It doesn’t have much to do with being senior, other than that you generally need a bit of seniority to get a move to long haul if you’re not fortunate enough to be recruited directly onto a long haul fleet. Suggesting long haul is too comfy is just incorrect. Some long haul fleets have it easier than others it is true, but to make the blanket statement that long haul is comfy in BA is wrong. Most on my fleet believe part time is the only way they’ll be able to stave off fatigue in the long term.

The top of the seniority long haul SFOs will unlikely now start bidding for short haul commands, because that would freeze them off a long haul command for five years and that’s where they really want to be. The more junior NAPS SFOs will probably just bid for short haul commands immediately (if they value their pensions over their current lifestyles - although I suspect many won’t, because they don’t totally believe they’ll ever receive the pension). It is the middle ground who will probably wait a year or so before starting to bid for short haul commands, just to see how things are looking and whether they might just squeak a long haul command in time. They are the one ones who are taking a little bit of a gamble and may end up losing out if there is a bit of a downturn in command availability.

However overall, I think all of the above means there will probably be very limited availability of new LHR commands to any BARP seniority pilots for the next five years (after 2018). There will also be several (although not all) pp16 capped LGW Captains bidding for LHR too. I suspect the only short haul command availability to BARP seniority pilots will be at LGW.

There are definitely some downsides of taking a shortfall command early on (even if it is available to you). I'm talking about those who achieve their command within the first 2/3 years in BA, which is historically unlikely anyway.

1. Zero or close to zero roster control (indefinitely)
2. Frequent reserve periods
3. One of the lowest command salaries in the UK for an A320 command.
4. Potentially years of stagnation as senior pilots transfer across ahead of you

If an A320 command is your thing and you're not interested in long haul it makes zero sense to leave somewhere like easyJet IMO.

If you join as an FO anytime soon you have a decent chance of achieving some lifestyle control pretty quickly based on the latest estimates for recruitment. What you then do is up to you.

As was said to me when I joined, you only HAVE to be junior once.

Unless you have a burning desire to fly long haul then there is absolutely no reason to join BA at all. Unless you like never ending conversations about pensions and JSS. Oh and of course the company has really “strong” union recognition hahaha!! Trust me if your close to LoCo command stick with it, most normal people go to work to earn money and BA is simply not the place to do that anymore all the rest is smoke and mirrors designed to convince us how lucky we are to work at T5s favourite airline.

I completely disagree with that! I felt like I was a financial inconvenience to the management at my previous LoCo. I had to flight for everything while there, I couldn’t face another couple of years working there, let alone another 35! Albeit I got a Longhaul position here, I would have taken SH, the majority of my friends did and are very happy. My work life is no longer stressful and therefore my home life has become stress free. I think the majority of this has to do with the attitude and culture at BA, where pilots are still treated like professionals, left to get on with the job!

Its been done to death, on this thread and others. there are pros and cons a plenty.

From my perspective, if you are in your 20s/early 30s and single(ish) then BA is still as good a gig as any. The main reason being you can bid to move around between SH and LH every 5 years. I find that kind of career choice liberating and it helps stoke up enthusiasm for the job.

Realistically, most join and do around 5 years A320 and then move to a LH fleet, then take stock after 5-10 years about a SH command. Many stay LH as the lifestyle is to their liking. Very few actually do a new Type Rating every 5 years/jump around between SH/LH but it is possible if you really love Groundschool.

Joining straight onto LH is a nice move for already experienced guys but you will sit at the bottom of a very long list with hardly any appreciable movement for quite some time.

If you want big money early then forget it. My mates at Locos are all far better off than I am. That said you can be at £100k p.a within 7-8 years as a LH F/O - with overtime and bonus.

Glad to hear the patient swimmers are being rewarded. A350 joins the fold in 2019 for anyone who fancies it.

Any more offers made to those who had their sims mid to late oct 2016?

Retrojet, rated or non rated? My sim partner was called few days ago for SH position and we did our check early october 16.

Either! Glad to hear about more offers going out...I know of some late SEPT/mid OCT a320 rated people getting SH offers....

just wondering if any mid to late OCT people had received offers yet...???

......at the moment.

And 25% joined in the last 5 years so it's a big bulge.

Jewel in the crown was bidline :{

Aiminghigh, yeah makes sense. I've got kids and a big mortgage too, and I wouldn't leave a loco command at the age I am now unless I absolutely had to fly LH. That said some people do just that and they make it work so your guess is as good as mine - its all extremely subjective!

Blimey

SHHHHHH! (I heard a year ago that AC and SG had a list of big ticket items they were pointing both barrels at, number 1 was pensions, guess what number 2 was.