Mad-jock

The latter:E

I found this information in both CAA web site and CAP 804. It's clearly
states following:


The CAA offers a ‘Same Day’ counter service for the following:

Addition of a type or class rating to a flight crew licence
Renewal of a type or class rating to a flight crew licence
Removal of a restriction from a flight crew licence
Revalidation or Renewal of a flight crew licence
Change of address
Inclusion of an Instructor Rating
Removal of restrictions from the Instructor Rating


There is no mention to IR. Avenger, where did you see that Same day counter service is provided for addition of IR? I mean instrument rating, not instructor rating.

Cloud, The list of "counter services" is not entirely accurate, for instance, change of address would now facilitate the issue of a new Part FCl licence if you had a JAR Licence as no more JAR licences are issued and thus would not be "same day" .The addition of a type rating is the same work as addition of an IR, i.e example B777 IR, and should be no problem provided all the paperwork is in order. It sounds like you are still waiting on the EASA licence and your IR course so you have time to email the FCL Web service and get an answer to avoid a wasted trip.

You are right I'm waiting for my EASA CPL. It' been 1 month since they received my application.

Sending e-mail is not even an option. Last time I sent and e-mail to CAA was 3 months ago :) and I'm still waiting for an answer. Actually even I forgot what was my mail about :)

I had a ME/IR (Single Pilot), issued using the same day service. At the time, it was done within an hour.

Hey get in line :E

I last e-mailed them 4 years ago and I'm still waiting for an answer...(I was chasing my previous e-mail..I never got an answer to that either..)

I can confirm Gatwick seems to be crazy busy these days, as I'm also still waiting for a reply to two emails. I'm due sometime later this year.

Can people therefore please confirm conversion UK JAR with Class 1 to EASA is or is not possible "same day" in Gatwick?

Also, my present JAR license shows a non-UK address. On the day, would I have to produce a UK address for the app for EASA ticket?

Help much appreciated. Cheers.

Same day service is not available for conversion of JAR License to EASA or Issue of new EASA license. There is no need to have a UK address for the new EASA licence but as the UK will be your ' State of Licence Issue" your medical records must be held in the UK, if you had your last medical outside of the UK make sure that the records have been transferred to UK. Also check your ELP as shown on your licence is in accord with the requirements. Yes, Gatwick is very busy and priority according to need. It seems about 6 or 7 weeks guys are waiting at the moment.. I am not sure about the courier service outside of the UK! our guys from Turkey choose a " correspondence address" in UK.

Really? I am recently back from Gatwick, having converted my JAR to EASA on the same day service.

Pretty quick service and great entertainment provided by the CTC cadets shouting loudly at anyone who would listen that they were getting an airbus rating put on their CPL. Quite cute really!

Indeed some pilots out there make an interesting species...

Kirks, and others,

All my med revalidations since CPL issue have been done in the UK so should be no problem there. Now, my license does not show an EPL but I was told by the CAA lady on the phone sometime ago that I'd had level six. RT was done in the UK as part of my CPL course.

Another question is, if I show up in Gatwick with lapsed MEIR and Class 1 (by less than a year each), what is going to happen? Issue of EASA but ticket not valid unless medical renewed? Same rules apply as with JAR, i.e. Class 1 when lapses becomes Class 2, renewal by AME within five years or else full medical in Gatwick again? MEIR renewal to be done within five years after expiry or else full IR again?

Been flying on another license for a while now, so to save some cash let all lapse; only intend to renew all if a job offer in EASA land comes up but it seems will have to renew all before going to Gatwick, won't I?

Any thoughts / experiences?

You will have to have a valid class one and a class which may only be a sep class. To get an easa license issued.

The ir the old rules apply for theory.

But if the IR is lapsed you have to go to an ATO now after three months and there is recommended training before sitting the flight test even if you are flying the same aircraft for 900 hours a year. If you can find an ATO who has some common sense and is willing to ignore the moaning of the caa that they haven`t made you do the recommended training you will be lucky.

My MEP went to the wind 5 years ago and the last time i looked at getting it back. They wanted me to do the full rating again. Even though my dayjob is on a twin tp with steam instruments and no autopilot. So i reckon i would be paying to learn how condition levers work.

easa cpl
 

dear all .

i sent my EASA ME CPL application 3 weeks ago to uk caa and after waiting for 3 weeks i decided to give them a call , the lady over the phone said to me that they sent me a letter through the mail and i don't know what she meant by and i asked her if my CPL is issued , she said i have to wait for the letter and for more enquire i have to send an email ....so any body know what that means ....?

im just worried about my application ...specially after spending all that money

Is there still a backlog or has it been cleared now? Just sent in my books for a ATPL issue.

B737 - I'd be interested in finding that our as I'm sure to send my docs and logbook in later in the summer.

Lost Application
 

I have a similar situation guys.
I sent my EASA ME CPL Licence Application forms 45 days ago. After 35 days since they received my application, i decided to give them a call to check the status of my application. Because i have to go to a IR conversion course. I need to arrange my trip&ticket&accomodation etc. anyway. They kindly informed me on the phone that my application is not on their system (it means they didnt receive it) The man on the phone told me they will check it out and let me know.

3-4 days passed. No one called. I called them again. They said: wait a little more, we know the issue, we are looking for it, will give you a call soon. He also said: probably your application has been received from another department and it must be somewhere in their offices.

Couple of days passed. Then some one called me from CAA and said: sir which application you have sent us? i answered. (EASA CPL and ME Add On) He also asked, where are you at the moment? in Turkey. Since i'm very well organised guy, i have made copy of all application forms and documents to keep it in hand just in case :) I also told him that if you want i can send them to you. He just said: i will call you back.

Couple of days passed without any call from CAA. I called them again. The man on the phone said: they know my situation, and they will call me back, i should wait until they call me. To be honest, they were all very polite and kind on the phone. I have no problem with this but this didnt solve the problem.

Now i'm sitting at home and waitinig with hundreds of questions in my mind.
What i have in my hand: Proof of delivery of application, date of receiving and copy of all application forms and documents.

I just wonder why they dont tell me that they lost my papers and request the copies of them from me and proceed with my licence issue?

I would be appreciated if somebody shares ideas with me who had similar problem with UK CAA.

is this situation rare or common over there?

Welcome to the UK! We have the pleasure of paying for this and the prices go up each year as well.

I think it's an absolute joke that we now have to do an hours break down into every category you could think of for the ATPL issue. When before they did it.

I had no problem paying XXX as they had to sit there and do it, now I have to do it and for them to say ok thanks, but we can't issue it to you unless you cross the T's and dot the I's.

The UK CAA is an absolute joke thats for sure...

I applied 3 months ago to get my EASA license and arranged here in Dubai to do my Sim check with a UK CAA approved examiner in order to get the B777 on that EASA license... After 2 months of NOT hearing anything I get an email stating that one outstanding document is missing in order to complete my application and that once they receive it they promise to process application on the same day. I get that document, fax it over and after numerous emails and calls to confirm they have received document and that its acceptable I get nowhere and no answers...
After a month of sending them that ONLY required document I get an email saying application is REJECTED to due a number of things not being acceptable... They were damn quick to get the fees from my credit card BUT took 3 months to tell me about a few outstanding details which did not make sense at all and now my paperwork is passed the 90 day validity and not sure what to do... I dont get how they can say they need ONLY one document to process application and then come up with a bunch of other crap out of the blue!!! Surely they can assess the application in one go and then tell you what is required rather than wasting 3 months drip feeding you????

I await to hear from the FCL manager after complaining about the service of one of his staff members who was dealing with my application... Watch this space!!!!!!

NOT a happy bunny!!!!

They are clueless. I spent 50 minutes on hold yesterday trying to get an answer to a very simple question. I'm currently flying the ERJ-145 on my FAA licence. I have two lapsed types on my UK licence. It's coming up to three years since the expiration date on both types. I wanted to know if I need to do an LPC, or whether I can just leave it, and if I left it and got hired by a European company in the next few years, would I be eligible to begin a new EASA type rating course without being current. A very dim woman answered who told me that she didn't know and I should check CAP804. I told her I'd already spent 4 hours trawling through it and there was no definitive answer. She just answered 'you'll be fine' and hung up. The place is a joke.

Don't suppose anyone has an answer to my original question do they?

EMB-145LR

As I understand it if the type is within validity, i.e. 3 years from last LPC, all you need to do is another LPC to revalidate the type. Best ask the question from TRE on type you are interested in.

But the rating lives for 5 years after expiry of lpc, so you're saying if your plc expired between 3-5 years ago you'll loose the rating? That surely can't be right? Under the new rules the rating remains on the license indefinitely I was led to believe only needing an lpc to make current again

It's changed from 5 years to 3 years! which has screwed over the boys in the sandpit and rice paddies.

They've completely messed it up for pilots (especially ones flying on other ICAO licenses) and the only people to profit are the FTO/TRTO's. Refer to UK CAA Standards Doc 14 V6 Appendix 4.

As of Sept 2012 for the renewal of Type/Class ratings:
1) Expiry of rating less than 3months: no supplementary reqs
2) Expiry over 3 months-less than a year: minimum 2 training sessions
3) Expiry over 1 year-less than 3 years: minimum 3 training sessions
4) Expiry longer than 3 years: training required for the initial issue of rating

I'm not familiar with the regs for other EASA states but it must be something similar.

Its the same. Thats the point of EASA. Although the licence is valid for life, the ratings are only valid for 3 years.

My contacts with CAA now tend to be with the Airworthiness side of things, and PLD.

It has been very, very obvious for at least 2 years that there is a complete management failure starting at the very top.

This was brought home at a Safety Management conference about 18 months ago which was addressed by both the Chairman and the CEO of the CAA.

The Chairman, one of those Quango Queens who lunch their way effortlessly from one job they know nothing about to another, lectured about 200 very senior industry executives about how important safety is, based on her brief contact with chocolate bar manufacturing problems.

The CEO addressed us all on much the same topic, in the manner of a primary school teacher trying to keep the kids on her side by being just as smiley and fluffy as she possibly could.

I think many of us, watching this performance, were wondering just how either of them could bring order to the organisation, which by that time was clearly dysfunctional with time-serving incompetents out-weighing the dwindling number of good, motivated and honest staff.

We now know that it has since simply got worse. And it will not get better until the top management, from the Chairman downwards, are swept out and replaced with people who (a) understand the industry and know their stuff backwards, and (b) are ready and able to take control properly and weed out the deadbeats ruthlessly, and (c) understand that the CAA is a service provider to EASA and to the industry.

If we decide to leave the EU, there is even less of a case for staying inside EASA than there is now. But to leave we need a CAA that can regain the clarity of purpose and prestige that it has lost, and that will never happen under the present leadership.

Renewal limits
 

I might have completely mis-read (and I hope), but I was under the impression that the training required for licence renewal was meant to be based on an individual basis but the CAA have just issued guidelines not anything set in stone?

(From the standards document Part 4, 4.and http://www.easa.europa.eu/agency-mea...20Part-FCL.pdf)

I do work overseas now so there might be newer documents out that I don't know about as I am out of the loop):ok:

This reply might get posted twice as my first one disappeared but it my understanding that the renewal requirements are based on an individual basis but the CAA have just given a recommendation rather than a set amount of training? (Standards doc - Part 4 - 4.4)

I am willing to accept that I might be wrong as I am no longer working in Europe.

JAB, Training requirements always have been on an "individual basis" as the candidate may require additional training above the " minimum" which, is just that.. a " minimum". If the rating has expired by 3 years or more, in all probability the full type rating course is the only way forward. Ironically, even " current" pilots are given 5 plus sims when changing company and in most cases 8 or 9 sims, i.e a full course content, albeit the content of the sims can vary. The new problem EASA is having now is lack of "approved" simulator facilities for ATOs to have access to..Brussels tell us there is a six month back log for approvals!

Hi Avenger,

Is it a minimum requirement for the training or a recommendation? :confused:

I ask as I work overseas and although current on type I was leaving my JAA rating to lapse slightly as it gets expensive renewing it every 12 months. So if it just a recommendation, I take it that all you have to is find a school/examiner that is willing for you just to take the LPC? (which might be much easier said than done)

Re my post above....someone has kindly pointed out that the CEO of the CAA is male, but that the CAA's Group Director Safety Regulation is female, and may or may not be the person with the "primary school teacher" manner.

It was careless of me, and I apologise to the CEO!

Total meltdown in most departments except those which set the fees.

The "we're not consultants" strap line/mantra will come to haunt them. They are the regulator as their posture proclaims .... the word safety just got lost somewhere.

Sad really !

JAB,

If the rating has expired by less than 3 months, the ATO can decide no " refresher" training is required, if the rating has expired by more than 3 months and less than 1 year then a minimum of 2 training sessions is required. The length of the session and "training alongside checking" is by arrangement depending on case by case but if the candidate is not operating that type or a similar variant then I would expect 2 full sessions minimum.

Its f:mad:ed! We are all in the same boat (certainly not aeroplane!) I love European people, they are nice - but this European EASA thing has absolutely and totally f:mad:ed up our system. Send THAT to the cabinet review board.

In fact, it is so f:mad:ed, I am not quite sure if it is recoverable - don`t blame the CAA, hate them or not, this is not their fault. The paperwork of EASA is a total bloody mess, worse than Bombay red tape in triplicate.

If I wanted to seriously mess up our FCL system I could not have done a better job than this. This, EASA has GOT to be the work of terrorists. No, no, I am NOT joking!!! Any entity like EASA who seizes up our CAA in such a way has got to have subversive terrorist inclinations, very subtle, oh yes.

Thats it, the enemy have won, we are now doomed!!!

DO EASA THINK THIS IS FUNNY?

Not wishing to sound extreme or anything but the head of EASA should be shot, or at least banished from the Earth. It is deplorable!! EASA should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, treating pilots like this who have paid thousands and thousands of £s in training costs (which was banked very quickly indeed) and then spending months MONTHS!! on issuing the bloody licence.

Either EASA gets its act together - like now!!! I mean now, or I go to the police AND THE PRESS, this is beyond redemption!

Watch out EASA this is war!!

I am not kidding! I`ll twist you so badly legally, you will not kniow if it is Shrove Tuesday or Sheffield Wednesday.

So EASA buck up your ideas, get the job done and stop messing about now, this is your last chance.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. PUBLICALLY. and
`am too old to suspend!! Sweet!

Meanwhile, back at camp - where are BALPA and AOPA when you SERIOUSLY need them?!!!

Well i am now as confused as a spaniel chasing my own tail !

I know that I am not the brightest of stars when it comes to paperwork - or anything if you listen to mrs jab - but where does it acrtually mention that there are minimum requiremts for renewing ratings? Does anyone have a reference ?

I think I have the correct manuals - 804 and standards Doc 14 - but I still can't see it :(

J.A.B The information, clarity you seek is found in AMC/GM Part FCL 740B (1)
Page 247 of the Acceptable Means of Compliance. This issue was raised at a recent examiners conference along with general lack of sim facilities etc and the potential costs to the candidates. Three months expiry without " training penalty" was considered reasonable, although not all of us agreed with this. The subject of how long a " training session" should be is open provided all the required items are covered in accordance with Part FCL ,generally the more complex manoeuvres will be "trained" it is taken as read that a candidate can perform the basics within limits. It used to be possible to book 2 hour sim slots but lack of capacity and downtime favours 4 hour sessions. In principle two guys could get revalidated in 12 hours, allowing for 2 training sims plus the test, but this is still approaching 3K each allowing for the TRI/SFI and TRE.

Hi - thanks for the link !

I still don't see why it's mandartory as it uses the words 'can be' - but I don't make the rules and if that is how the CAA are understanding them :(

Thanks again - I better get looking for a Sim out here as I only have weeks left on mine!

I'll share my experience with UK CAA regarding EASA license as the application process did go easier than expected based on experiences shared here by others.

• My UK JAR ATPL expired at the end of February 2013.
• I renewed my class 1 medical in February 2013.
• My latest JAR Type rating license proficiency check was completed in October 2009.
• I took the language proficiency test in March 2013.

• Visited CAA in Gatwick to put in my application with the required attachments on 19th of March.
• License issued on 7th of April. No active type ratings, showing my expired ratings at the back of the license.

Hey rangas,

Just wanted to ask is it possible to get an EASA ATPL issued with an expired rating??? My rating (B737)on my JAR has been inactive for 5 yrs, can I still get an EASA license issued and have the B737 on the back??

One more thing where did you get the language proficiency test done???

Yes.

For the english,i suggest you google 'May flower college' and contact them.

Good luck.

JAA licence sent in March 10th, chased a couple of times and back around April 15th. Apparently there was a system "glitch" at the CAA.

Re: language proficiency - if you're UK airline employed, can't your Flight
Ops department (or maybe your head of training?) certify you instead?