What are the bets that it's not actually mandated by EASA that the license should be in that particular format, but that the CAA have chosen to interpret things that way?

Mine just arrived. 7 weeks.

Silly question but is the old R/T licence now defunct?

Actually, the TRE should not sign the licence at LPC if it has been cut up! in order to revalidate you will need a replacement...

Equally a SAFA inspector could declare the license void and refuse your departure.

I bet the other eurocountries will still have a Concertina jobbie just like they always have had.

The chopping up of the old UK JAR licenses used to send some mental screaming that it was now invalid. Then it was shown that they were talking rubbish.

Looks like they have had their way.

And I reckon Flying Wild is correct.

Sensible thing would be to allow you to chop it down the middle so that the License bit could be plastic coated and the ratings bit could be left to be written on.

They are going to end up having to replace them every 3-4 years with a multiple folded sheet like that.

Chopped mine up in 8 as well, as TRE told me to do so with previous licence. The wallet provided by the CAA has multiple plastic pockets, what else are they to be used for other than the medical? Multiple EASA licences? Makes no sense, my last LPC has already been signed off recently, no comment from TRE other than there is no space for the number and signature. I would certainly not even consider asking for a replacement licence. If some inspector wants it all in once piece, I will carry around some sticky tape just for the occasion.....If that's not good enough, tough. Then there will be some company NTC about it afterwards, 'following a recent incident, crews are reminded that licences are not to be chopped up, blah blah blah.

There is a 1 cm x 1 cm sized box for the TRE to sign and another for their licence number in the revalidation section, that's not going to work, I am proud to say I cut mine up and I am now looking forward to spending another 35 quid and waiting 6 weeks for the replacement, if these idiots worked in the real world they would be sacked in a month for not being fit for purpose. Why issue a licence holder that is exactly the same size as the cut panels with multiple pages and not mention that actually its a joke licence holder just to catch out idiots like me.
Before I write to the CAA and tell them what I have done is everyone sure that cutting it up makes it invalid?

Oh hello comanche, our beams have crossed, deffo going to be the end of the world tomorrow.

Engineer licensing
 

Have any of you guys an insight to the effect this is having on maintenance engineer licensing at the CAA, my licence is in for renewal and if I don't get it back by renewed the second week in January I can't work and as a post holder if I don't have a licence then the company approval will become invalid and can't continue to work.

Kak klaxon

Oh and on the issue of cutting the licence pages to fit the plastic book I was told by the CAA that the licence was intended to be cut and on at least three occasions during company audits my engineers licence has in its cut state has been inspected by the CAA auditors without comment. I can't see why the reasoning should be any different for my ATPL.

Oh I'm way too lazy for any of that cutting up nonsense. I just folded it up and stuck it in my old green folder. I worked hard for that and don't see any reason to stop using it now, or is someone going to come on and say its invalid if carried in the wrong wallet. I expect so. :p

To Chop or not to chop
 

Just photocopy it and cut the photocopy, keeping the original in a spare sleeve.

Can someone tell me if they have asked the CAA about if cutting into 8 is not allowed ?

Post #78 ;)

Just spoke to the CAA over the phone and yes, if you have cut it into 8 pieces, its null and void. Form SRG1117 to get a replacement

LV abbreviation
 

next to my ratings is written LV, which i suppose is low vis but if u look in the
abbreviations section LV is nowhere to be found, i guess that would cause some
confusion when someone hands over the licence to non eu caa for revalidation.

Black pudding
 

Who at the CAA told you this ? And is it written down as offical policy or is it the opinion of one of the minions.

Any how I won't now be cutting the A4 piece of paper that is so clearly intended to be cut up into pages and put in the plastic book that the CAA supply because of the way the pages are numbered.

It will now remain in one piece making it imposable to read without removing it from the clear plastic case that is intended to display it with ease.

All can ask is who makes up these rules and why are we paying them to do so, it seems like a money making scam and a good reason to fire some of the parasites that feed on the hard working people in the aviation business.

Please see the following UK CAA document: CAP 804 Part 1 Appendix 2 "Sample Part-FCL Licence" dated May 2012. In the bottom right-hand corner of page 1 of the document it clearly states: "Pilots are not permitted to cut up their licence as its format and layout is stipulated by EASA regulations."
You can find this information on the UK CAA website.

FPA

You are correct. The LV endorsement is a new one and refers to your qualification to operate in conditions below CAT1. A revalidation including such a qualification should be written by the TRE as, for example, B737 300-900/IR/LV. Without it your SAFA ramp inspection following a CAT3 approach could lead to an "interesting" conversation with the inspector.

It sounds to me as if this has only been the case since the issue of this document, and so should only be applicable to licences issued after the document as issued as cutting the licence was common practice and never a problem given the format it was issued in.

It is clear that this runs counter to any common sense when you look at the plastic book that is issued to keep the licence in.

Still it is plane stupid of me to expect any form of logic or common sence when EASA is involved.

Any how thank you 1965 for finding the referance document.

Now to work out how the medical should be folded..

Can anyone lend me 35 quid, your licence comes out of the printer as an a4 sheet, the young lady walks it to the counter with a small multi page plastic wallet, smiles all round, 7 weeks of waiting is over. You get home, cut it up to fit the wallet, bung it into your bag and forget about it.
Why does life become more like a Victor Meldrew sketch as you get older?

I am going to put the new one into the old cover as at least you can get your passport etc in there, or is that not allowed under rule 1313245.5 sub part 13 AMC 2232123 which is available only in French at the moment.

One foot in the grave.........

Change your address for a year to a mates/relatives house. And they will send you a new one.

How about just stick it back together with sellotape? I think I'm just going to put sellotape on mine when it arrives, just for the hell of it.

Having trawled through the 800 odd pages of this latest bureaucratic maelstrom, once you have an Easa licence you can still add type ratings obtained outside the EU, subject to the appropriate fee a type rating check ride and 500 hour ?:ooh:

Yes, indeed you can, but its 500 hours 'flying experience', sim time whether it be ZFT sims or not does not count towards those hours I'm led to believe,

The new CAP804 is not good at all & as I found out recently can be misinterpreted.

Time taken to issue new PPL from CAA
 

I applied for my PPL (new licence, not conversion) on 10th Dec. Astonishingly it actually arrived today, so one month, or three weeks if you account for the CAA being off between Christmas and New Year.
I'll be sure not to cut it up into pieces, having read this thread!

I sent in the docs via courier yesterday for an ATPL unfreeze, they should be in there tomorrow. I have a UK medical conducted at the CAA itself, printed logbook signed on all pages, a certification from my employer confirming my hours, the skills test form and the payment form which I sent (I did not send a copy of my medical as they surely must have it there). I was told by a phone operator it should take around four weeks to get it.

Both the examiner was an English TRE and the simulator was in LGW (Oxford). On paper this should be really straight forward for them, yet somehow I'm slightly anxious they will bounce the application and I'll be stuffed. Between EASA, UK specific regulation, and all the other flippin' regulations it's very hard for me to keep track. Especially as I did the skills test under the old jar regulations and not under the new EASA requirements, though I was assured I would get an EASA ATPL.

Anybody any real-world estimates? License expires 28/02. Please advise. :P

drfaust,

I did exactly the same as you, all t's crossed, and i's dotted, with a large proportion of my flight time logged overseas in dark parts of the world. Issue time, including the Festive period, 5.5 weeks. License arrived about 5 working days after they took the payment.

Hope that helps.

I just recieved confirmation that my application for state of transfer has been accepted, however I was told the following -

"Please note that although ******* is an Operator we recognise as employing pilots with ‘LV’ privileges, we cannot grant you this privilege as part of the initial issue of your EASA ATPL because your most recent test was conducted with an Irish Examiner and not with the Operator itself"

Can anybody shed any light on this?

slw29

Well done on getting your PPL. Three working weeks for licence issue. Good news indeed.

Apologies for bumping this, however I'm still a little confused with this cutting business, and with a transfer soon i'd like to clarify.

I have read the CAA pamphlet referenced, and the applicable format details are contained in Appendix I to Annex VI PART-ARA, of EU Commission Regulation No 290/2012. In it, I can see no stipulation it must be on ONE piece of A4. In fact, on page L100/27, it says "Size of each Page shall be one-eighth A4" - which indicates to me you NEED to cut it up.

Does anyone have a definitive reference (other than CAA 'guidance' material) which states it must remain one piece of paper?

Definitely do NOT cut your licence - it WILL invalidate it and you'll be required to pay forty something quid for a new one. That's a fact - straight from the UK CAA. I called up and asked. You could do the same if you aren't sure. But with 100% assurance I can tell you that cutting the licence to fit the book will invalidate that licence. Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i converted my licence last week in gatwick , and i can also confirm that if you cut it , it will invalidate your licence (the lady took the time to make it clear when she gave it to me )

Any reason why UK license is in this newspaper format and not like the rest?

Surely the constant enquiries about cutting the license up due to the user unfriendly format should indicate to the CAA that they have made an error in interpretation of EASA rules?
As I understand it, some other CAAs are producing licenses in more user friendly formats.

EASA Licence Format
 

Hi all

In CAP804 (which replaced LASORS), there is a purple shaded box at the top right of a "Sample Part-FCL Licence" at Section 1 Part C Appendix 2 which reads "Pilots are not permitted to cut up their licence as its format and layout is stiplulated by EASA REgulations".

I have seen further reference somewhere else in CAP 804 but can't find it now! Hope this helps. Do Not Cut up your Licence even though it seems as though it's designed to be cut into the 8 segments outlined which are exactly the dimensions to fit into the new mini licence holder; rather naughty :=

Cutting Up EASA ATPL
 

Hi Guys

For those of you who have cut up your nice new EASA ATPL (like I did) check your licence very carefully and also get it checked by a TRE, if you or the TRE find any errors then inform the CAA and they will send you a new one for free.

In my case they missed the LV endorsement and from what a number of TRE's have told me, they have seen quite a number of errors and omissions.

Hope this helps some and better than paying £46.
:D:D

Thanks for your input guys, however maybe what I said has been a little misunderstood...

Can anyone direct me to the EASA regulation the CAA are referring to? Flying Wild seems to be in my corner here, I think they are misinterpreted the guidance from EASA. Without wanting to seem like I have a 'I know better than CAA' type attitude, after looking at the rules I still think it's ok to cut it.

Incidentally, I know many will think folding/cutting etc type discussions are perhaps a little pointless, as it's only a licence, however it's a source of pride for me. I earnt it - I want to keep it nice!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha
What a joke the UK CAA are turning into over these licences.

A complete laughing stock!

Not a practical common sense brain cell between them all, but plenty of huge salaries!

It is hugely irritating that the CAA are effectively a law unto themselves. They come up with crap ideas and there is no way to challenge the mindless automatons who work there.