If you take off approx 1K from each, then thats the net pay in Spain. Tax is 24%

Company bonus scheme is active in Spain because there is no pension.

Yes, Pension schemes aren't popular in Spain because there's no significant tax advantage for either employee or employer in paying in to one. Anyway, your extended family are expected to look after you in your old age (just like when you're in Hospital..now, that'll NEVER catch on in the UK will it!). Better to have the money now to do with as you wish rather than tie it up till you're 65.

CSC

There's alot of experienced pilots out there waiting for the day when this happens. If you read above you will see mixed messages contradicting each other. Someone is saying mid 2012/2013, someone says it won't happen, and you're saying it's going to start soon. My question is which one is the truth? And why should your statement be more credible than anyone else's? This is a rumour forum after all so is this just your humble opinion or is it based on a modicum of fact?

I have seen 5 swap requests this month from Flexi pilots begging for more hours in November, and I think there are many more who don't have enough hours to survive but know that asking for swaps isn't going to be much use.

Sad state of affairs really.

WWW I'm surprised you support the flexi route so strongly. I guess you are a realist but I still can't support a system that endangers safety and causes personal misery, all be it for a long term goal.

Things are far to much in companies favour in my opinion and that system stifles any recruitment from the more experienced pool of people instructing or enjoying the delights of an air taxi or a turboprop job. Where do they go? Not to Ryan and not to Easy cause the door is only open to the cheap flexicrew boys (who incidentally can't be blamed!).

Maybe you are lucky enough to be enjoying a "career airline" so aren't noticing or feeling the frustration lower down the line. Either way I think the flexicrew stuff smothers the industry and works ONLY in the companies favour. You or anyone else, in my opinion, should not be supporting it.

Would the Company have dared to propose the Lisbon contract and DEC's if Flexicrew didn't exist?

I doubt it Andy!

Binder

easyJet DEC
 

Binder,

Are you suggesting that easyJet will employ DEC in Lisbon on a 2 year contract?

WWW and NSF went on record saying that would never happen again.

I'm confused.

Anyhow, I agree, the company have driven the wedge in...............

Lets be clear THERE will never be any contract Capt in easyjet. The pilot workforce understand the repricussions and what the future would hold if there were.

As I understand it the contract is poor compared to other European contracts (viz Euro 77k basic c/w 126k French). Also I hear that preparations are under way for assessment schemes should DEC be required (perhaps where internal interest is insufficient).

It may be two plus two making five but WB will be laughing all the way to his bank if this comes to fruition and goes unchallenged.

Binder

So, what did Binder mean?

And why were easyJet Switzerland offering contract Commands earlier this year? And last year for that matter?

Or is that a TOTALLY different thing?

Edit: Binder and I crossed whilst posting. But for the record if you trust "WB", then you've gotta be mad. Can anyone remind me of his rant against Ryanair Pilots, or his non-confession regarding that to all the easyJet pilots? I'd be worried about the "A" scale chaps........

Yet another contract at easy. It is worse than Ryanair. Divide and conquer tactics from the management.

I thought by deduction my statement would be clear. No contract Captains,its the one issue BALPA at the bequest of the pilot workforce if not on there own initiative would result in a strike ballot and work to rule. OTP would be in a new league.

We have many SFO waiting for command courses and others going through the selection process. These guys and girls will all have commands before any external DEC be considered. Once this process is complete then yes DEC.
The proposed positions in Portugal will be supplied by DEC only if there are no easy pilots available. If there are available easyjet Captains and none accept the new position, then improved T&C will be required by the company. Period

u0062
 

No, your first point wasn't very clear.

Your second at least states your claim.

But it won't stop a cart being driven between your horses in easyJet by WB.

I don't support flexicrew. I just look at it from all angles.

The Easyjet recruitment saga has taken an unexpected turn - that is at least definitely true. :(


WWW

Hmmm, I thought the new CEO promised to improve industrial relations with the pilot workforce? Is the continuation of Flexi-Crew through an agency and a 2 year reduced salary contract at Lisbon the way she proposes to do it?

This is how it is.

Union Men - Episode 1 | Xtranormal

I hear from a very reliable source at easyJet that there is a plan to offer the contract 737 Captains jobs on the Airbus in Portugal. That will overcome the problem of no permanent captains being willing to touch it with a barge pole.

From what I had understood there was an agreement between BALPA and easyJet that if they took Boeing contract captains, there was an absolute guarantee that they would leave at the end of the Boeing. Maybe someone within easyJet might like to comment?

if you watch the above video it offers a fairly accurate snapshot of ezy V balpa!

Yes they were supposed to go, no their original jobs weren't offered to the SFO command pool, and no LIS hasn't been offered to the SFO command pool.

This is a new era of them doing what they want!

Spot on Prob30.

It's sad but true; Even Mrs Binder enjoyed it (lot's of explaining needed).

Looking forward to episode 2 easyville!

31st of October was the end date of the contract so perhaps they have gone by now (I am not with eJ btw).

happy happy joy joy?
 

So AdM...?

Any positive 'feel good' update on "Project Merlin," DEC's in LIS, FlexiCrew and the improvement of industrial relations? :rolleyes:

Doug the Head:

I don't have a dog in the fight but that is absolutely brilliant!

Ren and Stimpy takes me back to West Van, 1993. Thanks for that Doug.

Did they televise it in Holland/Belgium too?

Doug you were a TRSS blow in who piddled off elsewhere after a few years. Thats a while back.

Let it go or do you enjoy being bitter? Because, friend, nobody is jealous..



Ren and Stimpy were, and are, :mad: and the only people of our (shared) age who liked them were generally friendless, geeky, losers. The forerunners of Beavis and Buthead etc. etc.

Huh, huh, huh ..... My forerunners?

Doug is a without doubt a professional moaner who's posts I tend to skip but let's be honest, the Lisbon announcement gives him an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. He's not far off being in the galling position of saying 'I told you so'.

Thomas Cook fast track commands at EZY?
 

....was just wondering - anyone at TC been offered a FO job at EZY with the promise of fast track commands to tempt you to stay longer than 3 years?

Great move. Leave one airline with no future, for another with terms and conditions being torn apart.

3 years for a "fast track" Command?

Would that be in the new cheap base in Lisbon? Or perhaps the one coming after that? Probably even cheaper....

Doug the Head - as one who has given many of your waking hours to your pathological hatred of the airline industry in general and easyJet specifically, it is possibly not surprising to you that you have yet more reason to bleat about what is coming to pass. Possibly more surprisingly to you may be that, in this case, I agree with you.

The Lisbon contract fiasco is a disaster that has come at the worst possible moment for 'pilot engagement'. Although there were the old guard like yourself who saw no good in any manager, there were many of us who saw great potential for Carolyn McCall and her 'new broom' approach. She has, unfortunately, made a terrible error of judgement in this, either by her active involvement or allowing it to happen by omission. I have to say that it is imperative for her credibility that she acts sooner rather than later to sort this mess out. Fortunately, there are those who are actively engaging with her Doug, rather than carping on the sidelines saying, 'I told you so'. This is not a done deal, but it is bad news by any standard. Furthermore, the vibes from Project Merlin and the pay talks are all pretty negative - there is no one more hacked off about that than me. Nonetheless, let us see the substance as there is a great deal of horse trading to take place yet. I see a big, and totally unnecessary, conflict coming very soon. We have no choice but to fight this, but there is such a better way of doing industrial relations. In the past, I have been confident of the outcome and a reasoned settlement - I have to be honest and say that I really do not feel that here. Once the dust has settled and we have seen the real facts about what is on offer, rather than ill-informed rumours, then we will be in a better position to know what the deal is.

In the meantime, the rumour is that BALPA have reached some accommodation with the Company over the 737 Contract Captains, whereby they become Airbus captains and go to Lisbon! If that turns out to be true then there will be some serious changes on the CC, starting at the top. The deal surrounding that was absolutely explicit at the time - 737 Contract Captains for the duration of the Boeing and that was that. If the CC have been found to have done a back door deal on this then there will be some BIG problems. I still hope that is not the case, but would be greatly comforted by an 'official' clarification on this from a BALPA CC member. So Doug, you are right to be concerned - I am too. Let us wait and see what transpires.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Alexandre, you wrote some sensible posts in the past and in general I like positive and open people which you seem to be.
As far as the issue with management/pilots engagement though, most people seem to not see the real problem here, which is the system. As simple as that. As long as a bonus system exists, and there is a target to lower expenses (employees, fuel, coffee etc etc) in order to increase the bonus (hence no savings at all!) nothing can possibly change, and funny enough people seem to think that the new plan is the good one and that the improvements will become better and better this time. But it never happens. This is why a lot of people become cynical and, frankly, it's hard to blame them on this one.

Either we accept to deal with a spiral that we all know where is heading, or we stop listening to the nice words and plans and start basing our opinions and actions on the facts.

Dear Alexander, there never was and never will be a 'new broom' approach.

Be it ol' Ray Webster, be it ol' Andy Harrison, or now good ol' Carolyn McCal: it will always be the same ol' game of 'good cop versus bad cop.'

It's management squeezing as much out of that orange in bonuses as possible before leaving the sinking ship and letting others clean up the mess with some more empty promises and "project Merlins."

The only thing that changes is the next load of new fresh employees (DEC's and cadets) who believe the latest fairy tale and sign the newest contract that has lower T&C's than that of the person they replace...

As pilots we get paid to be realists, not to cut corners and to keep the big picture in mind. Do you brief an EO scenario? How many times did you have an EO? Are you a "professional moaner" because you focus each and every flight on potential problems that will most probably never happen anyway?

I'm not looking for ammunition to prove my point. I don't need ammunition to prove my point. Just look at the last 5 years and you will see my point...

In a grand scheme of things I feel sorry for the overall demise of this industry, the cadets who have been misled into forking out thousands and thousands of Pounds/Euro's/Dollars to join an industry that treats them worse every year. Most of all I feel sorry for the TAP Air Portugal pilots who now will have to fight an uphill battle to keep their T&C's because they will directly compete with some orange DEC on a sh!tty contract who's job it is to supervise a 200 hour cadet on some kind of a flexicrew contract making barely enough to make the next interest payment on his enormous loan.

It's a vicious circle of continually lower T&C's where airlines, unions and employees are permanently underbidding each other. The only winners are the bonus grabbing management and the shareholders.

Welcome to the future!

p.s. I already did that years ago: DEC 2009 Again: welcome to the future!

Union Men, Episode 2
 

and now on youtube
TheEasyville's Channel - YouTube

unfortunately it is very difficult not to be cynical after many years of lies and mistruths. It is a difficult battle and we need to approach this in a more cohesive way. We need new blood and fire in our bellies.

Imagine one's headstone..........

"And all I ever did in life was to fly for easyJet"

If you search NSF's posts from 2006/07, AdM's post, 6 up from this one, is more or less a repeat.

Nothing has changed and all credibility has been lost.

To have backed a company so publicly that then sells you and your colleagues out like this..........there is simply nothing else to say.

Sorry Alex..... I think you forgot to mention the 'good'.

AdM,

Who is WB's "boot boy"? What is the source and reliablility of WB's "other half" being at Parc?

Seriously? Brady's other half works for Parc? Surely he should leave his position immediately and return to Ryanair? Pleease?

Well imagine it says:

¨I don´t have a life outside of flying so the company I worked for deserves a place on my headstone¨


I am really pissed of by the whole development inside easyJet. I blame BALPA and its members. Flexicrew started as a one off, now we supposedly have 60%
contract F/O´s on the ´island´. If BALPA had known this in advance would they have agreed with the introduction of flexicrew in the first place?
The whole Lisbon thing is exactly the same. BALPA is already finding excuses to let it happen, because it will just be a few a/c. Sounds familiar?
The argument that we can´t do anything about LIS because there is no legal action we can take does not cut it for me! There are more than enough ways to let them listen to us. You just need unity and cojones. How do you think we achieve and improve our conditions in let´s say easyJet Spain or France?
NC needs to go now! He has lost all credibility after having had flexicrew just happen to us. That´s called accountability! If a football coach does not achieve the result he has to go as well. Maybe NC can become a manager of some sort, that seems to be the defined career path nowadays!
LIS contract is the beginning of the end and the single biggest fight we challenge as easyJet pilots. Someone who doesn´t see that should have his head examined.

Totally, totally agree Open Descent.

Wingswinger, Zoso - I have removed my previous post as I am not 100% sure of the facts rather than the rumours. There is a lot of stuff being said at the moment, all from reliable sources, but a bit of time to check will not do any harm. Although I trust the people, I frankly have difficulty believing that it could be as crass as it sounds. A misunderstanding I hope.