CC aka. Daddy ;)

Thanks for the flattery, but I doubt your old enough to be my Dad. You'd be above the max retirement age :O

First line of my post on page one. That up until last week they were the pay scales we were using. The pay has not gone up because we fly newer jets. We are the poor son of BA. :eek:

Flight pay is same for both seats. There are NO additional payments per Diem!

RJ

p.s. I have been trying to update the scales on PPJN since our huge 2% pay rise. Alas, it does seem to have appeared yet.

Ok, how about the age I feel? Does that count? ;)

Thanks RJ

Hi

I don't understand the application idea. Do you have to download the application form (i don't see any) from their website or do you have to create one on your own with the guidelines the describe?

Thx

Lord Brown

I take your point, old bean, about Flybe being Europes' 'numma wun' when it comes to regional beasting of pilots. We continue to work hard to overtake you and in time, we probably wont.

Unlike yourself- plainly, a gentleman of independent means- I rely on my wages to ensure survival and for this I am prepared to do (almost) anything.....except join your mob!

I remain, as always, your obedient servant......

Although, not quite as literally as when we were both on the Barbie.;)....:ok:

Plz disregard my question. Found the solution.

Must be the wine ;).

In regards to the pay question for direct entry F/O the reason everyone is being a bit vague is that we do not have an exact figure published available. A Lot of our F/O`s were cadets who were on a different scale and there have been alot of changes with pay freezes to prevent redundancy etc, RJ100 is in the right ball park with the 2% year on the last pay scales.

Bond will be a bond not a bank loan. It will be detailed with costs and not a random figure plucked out the air. Not sure of duration but guessing about 3 years. You don`t leave you don`t pay!

*Just read the application and it states a 2 year bond

Positions will be LCY so stby call out is 90 Mins.

I hope roster patterns, number of stby`s and days off will improve, That`s why we are getting more crew! (maybe i`m dreaming)

Edi crews get more duty pay ATM as they spend all day flying around as passengers ;)

in regards to any problems with the application form, national insurance number, recent hours etc i would suggest contacting the company to ask.
IT issues would not be a surprise, If your serious its worth at least an email to clarify your application if you think you have a problem.

I applied two days ago, and appart the mail that I received confirming the correct reception of the application I haven't had any other answer.
Has anybody received an email or call after submit the application?
Any idea about the recruitment process and how many crews are they looking for?

rgds.

Blimey CHECHE...chill! Closing date is not for another 2 weeks!!!! Add to that a final sift...lower your expectations...

Anybody know what the assessments will be like? Are they still keen on verbal and numerical reasoning? and PIL:yuk:PT ?

Barbiesboyfriend

:mad: ;) :=

Molton Brown

selling out to the lowest bidder ....
 

Was there ... don't do it, there are better things to do with your life. Get a plan, avoid lo-co, try teaching people how to do something you love ... just don't sign up to this ritualised nonsense ... oh how high do I jump to pass YOUR test ? .. yep someone will always be willing... but do you really want to be that someone ? ... let them take it .. meanwhile do something constructive with your life.

Teddy Robinson you'll have to elaborate a bit more than that to put people off.

Lord Browne.

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:ooh::{:)

Even though our ways have temporarily parted, I'll always be junior to you.

I look forward to our inevitable reunion; I hope on terms amenable to us both.

How many hours per year do you guys at Cityflyer log ?

Hi Guys,

I don't normally post on here but I feel I should to stop people throwing away jobs (which you may not like, but you'll think it was the best job ever if you left to join us).

The only way this job is worth applying for, is if you were unfortunate made redundant over the last year or so. The pay is disgraceful for the job we do! We are not a regional airline, more a European short haul company, yet our powers that be (Penny Pinchers) negotiated our pay based on that and then take 5% off!!! On top of that you operate in and out of a Cat C airfield every sector on a roster based on min rest at airport hotels and a piece of lettuce (Crew Food).

You get rostered 5 day trips so that your away from base and become the company's bi:mad:ch for those 5 days, where they can do whatever they like to you!!

Positives: -
1) Friendly Crew
2) Good Rostering Manager, if you need particular days off
3) Nice Aircraft to fly and use to apply elsewhere.
4) LCY fun some days!

P.S. It could be a great company commercially and for employees if it was planned for the future and not for tomorrow! More money/ crew welfare - happier staff and less turn over! More staff, less sickness and less chance of getting titan in at a lot more cost than 2 salaries! I could go on but you get the point!!
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

In its previous guise, Cityflyer Express, it was always poorly paid but crews were friendly and professional. Got this information from someone I knew who was an RJ skipper.

Maybe pays even worse now but at least the E-jet is so much better than the RJ!

I'll probably be applying as I fit the profile T3D STRIK3R lays out (plus LCY is only 30 mins from home).

Read and re-read the info from the guys who actually work here. That's the best advice.

Regarding the NI number to apply. If you don't have one, I found a someone with the same issue on a different forum. It was suggested there to use: a000000a. Your best advice would be to sent to bacityflyer.jobs (at) ba.com and explain it to them.

Basically it's a longhaul (touring up to 6 days away!) job with crap pay and 3 to 4 sectors a day with a bottle of water as crew food in between breakfast and dinner.

BUT is depends on your experience and what you are looking for. I do really enjoy it. But I also know that for many it's a different story as they have something to compare it to. T3D STRIK3R list the best parts about the job spot on. The folk, both f/d and c/c, are indeed really good fun.

As an F/O I log around 500hrs a year. I guess next year around 600 with the new summer program. Indeed a touring airline, with trips from 2 and up to 6 days away from base/home. I tend to get the bare minimum of 9 days off per month with an average of 7.3 nightstops, 38 operating sectors and 58hrs a month. (over a 3 month period incl 2 weeks leave) The E-jet bond is spread over 2 years and unless you leave, you don't pay a penny.

So far I've always been awarded the leave I requested, incl. request days off, trump days and your request for the festive period. The rostering manager is a brilliant guy. The schedueling agreement that was mentioned earlier makes it hard for the company to change rosters without asking your permission and/or awarding some cash (taxed of course!) to it. My roster is stable. Don't get many changes and the ones I do get are requests that I could have happily turned down If I had wished to do so.

If you're looking for a long time career and good pay, this is not the job for you. If you're looking to fly a modern jet out of a CAT C airfield with good staff travel perks and some nice folk to work with, it's not bad at all. I'm happy but I hear a lot of moaning and people applying elsewhere...just my 0.002 cents :ok:

Barbiesboyfriend

Yup, all true :ok:

Molton Brown

With a lifestyle like that and poor pay, no wonder you guys mope about at City and look at the floor - or is eye-contact with the other ranks frowned upon?

T3D STRIK3R has pretty much hit the nail on the head!
I would not leave any company to come work for this outfit in it's current state.
It is certainly at an all time low and I have never seen it worse than it is at the moment.
To the point that a fair few who stayed on when Connect was sold off to Flybe now wished they'd left for BE!! :ugh:

Even several of the people who joined us less than two years are actively looking to leave. Quote from one a few months after he joined, when we were both waiting in the LCY city crew room during one of my many forced airport standbys away from base.. "I have never worked for a company so poorly managed in my life, and I have worked for a few shady outfits!"

But if you think you are better off feel free to join, but be warned and don't complain when you realise we were ALL telling the truth!

Best of Luck!
RJ.

Well i submitted my application. We will see what will happen. I took the decision for myself, if the money is really that poor, no := go for me then and i stay at my current company.

Thanks for all the honest opinions guys but you're not changing my mind. Actually think it's a bad job for someone made redundant, CF should be selective and pick people who actually want the job and wont moan and leave for mainline at the first opportunity.
Way more important things than money, will be a pay cut for me if I get the job, as for touring and nights away, that's one of the biggest attractions...
Anyone think london city qualified and experienced turbo prop captain would make up for the lack of jet time?
I hope I get to fly with you guys soon, you wont hear me moan, ever, always better than sitting in an office!

Hey guys, just wondering what sort of experience levels they take on?

A Question on the Application.
 

Hi guys and gals,

I may be having a bit of moment with one of the questions on the application. But "Please list your Performance Examination passes". I am a little confused as to whether they are simply asking for Performance exam passes in terms of Perf A etc, or whether they would like details of all ATPL subjects? If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would really appreciate it. Thanks :-)

I think the problem with the view point expressed about why we go into this job in the first place is it leaves you open to exploitation. Sure, to many, flying is a passion, but so is lawyering to others, and you don't see many of them prepared to do it for peanuts.

Extend the argument further and you would expect premier league players to be the worst paid of all....

I had the same issue. I believe they're referring to the old performance exams before EASA / JAA? Just list your Performance and PoF grades and then below list the rest of them (i.e the other subjects) I also did this in the education section, (where I gave details of my ground school) If they don't need the info they will just disregard it anyway.

:ok:

Thanks very much! :)

Two more E190 for S11

BA CityFlyer firms up two Embraer 190 options

that's very true what you say captain widebody. I couldn't agree with you more.

Unfortunately cityflyer's only attractive bit in all those things you list is that you get staff travel on BA. mind you, it's not as good as what BA pilot's get, but it still gets you places.
Apart from that though, there isn't much else. All these cityflyer employees aren't trying to put people off, they're just honest. Good luck and if you make it through I look forward to hearing you out over a few beers after a year's flying with us.

cheerio

I agree with capt widebody. For me lifestyle is by far the most important aspect - not the money. I want to have enjoyable flying and plenty of time with my family. However BA cityflyer doesn't seem to tick many boxes at all!

The answer to this is fairly simple in that it means they do not have to have multiple bases. Cityflyer is predominately a business airline with London City as it's focus interconnecting other business centres. The reason for the touring is to enable them to operate into LCY first thing and back out last thing which enables their customer base flexibility with meetings etc.

Maybe you would like to quantify this statement??? I don't work for the aforementioned, but instead a turboprop operator who pays less. I don't think you can define career airlines by their starting salaries?

It is a business first and foremost, and although the salaries do not reflect market rate, it is important to consider the financial position the country has found itself in, and the fact that many other airlines have fallen by the wayside and will continue to do so. Maybe the rewards will come in time.

Finally, someone compared us to footballers and lawyers, whilst lawyers may love their trade, I'm pretty sure it's bloody hard work most of the time, with moments of joy few and far between. Footballers are playing a game they love - not my idea of work at all. We on the other hand, 5 mins into a flight break thru the cloud, into the blue open sky - that is a moment of joy, and the harder you work, the more often it happens.....:D

I agree. The company itself says that it's not a career airline. Fair enough. At least it's honest. But having worked for two other airlines, one who went bust and another one that's making a loss and cutting services, I can fairly say that having job security and big BA behind you makes me sleep a whole lot better at night. And now add Hamburgh International to the list of 'once upon a time there was...' airlines.

For f/o's it's currently mostly 3 day tours. But cpt's regularly 5 to 6 days away. Having only a dozen destinations limits the variety a bit. They are always the same trips but mixed in a different order. But with the CPH, ARN and the upcoming new destinations, it makes it all a bit more interesting. Mind you, those MAD/CPH en future ARN trips are really nice though. At least they are not minimum rest jobs and you actually have an afternoon+evening/morning off to explore the city.

If you want to have time off at home (minimal touring and weekends off) and make a really descent wage, this is not the place to be. And next years programm is gonna be even more busy.

As others stated before. You'll fly with really nice folk (c/c & f/d), into an interesting airport on a daily basis and on a great jet. We're expending and have job security and good schedueling agreement. Plus some nice perks on the side. (staff travel)

On the other hand. The money is crap, crew food goes downhill, no vouchers anymore in hotels like we used to have and lot's of time away from home, now including weekends.

Take your pick and see what fits you. I would however recommend this airline, but it all comes down to what's important to yourself. These are just facts.

"I've applied cos I have no choice in the current climate but being married with 2 kids and living in London, I need to earn a pre tax salary of £37,000 to break even and that doesn't include holidays. Passion has it's limits, it's clearly not a career airline"

Good luck with £26,000 for year one...

"Actually think it's a bad job for someone made redundant, CF should be selective and pick people who actually want the job and wont moan and leave for mainline at the first opportunity."

Two things wrong with that statement, not many people are really going to WANT to work at BACF, and even if they do, they won't after a year.

Secondly, working for this 'wholly owned subsidiary', there is virtually no chance of getting into mainline direct from CF and why would they? Pay for a CF pilots rating on an Airbus, only to recruit someone to fly the EMB at LCY? Recruitment of one CF pilot will invariably lead to recruiting two pilots, one to mainline, one to CF, hardly cost effective?

Like Mr.DB757 says, it's not all bad and always very subjective. My two cents? If you're in a stable flying job, wait it out until the bigger better airlines recruit, if your needing a job, get your app in.

Ta

Atreyu:ok:

That's the bottom line of this thread.

P.s. Atreyu, shouldn't you be working for a change? ;)

I've convinced the company I am to be left as a man of leisure ;)

Atreyu

p.s I wish, just a few days off which are together, thanks to our kindly crew planner :)

Well hopefully those choosing CF for the wrong reasons will get sifted out at interview, I know a few people who really do want the job (myself included)

I think you guys forget there are lots of people working for much less money on far worse conditions and CF would be a great move. Personally I would choose CF command over mainline FO if both came up at the same time. (I am in a stable fun job that I love at the moment)
guess it's all about what people want from work.

For those that are at CF for longer;
How does your training work? Are there many line trainers?
Does CF use it's own TRI/TREs?

Also for anyone on the Emb, does CF have the HUD or the autoland enabled/approved? The plane looks amazing!

Cheers

I know it is a difficult question to answer because of expansion etc, but what is the length of time expected for command? Is it strictly seniority based because surely like most other airlines there are plenty of 3 stripers with 2500hrs+ waiting for their chance.

Jamin

Jamin20; There is no average time to command it very much depends on demand and other things (people leaving, expansion, etc). We have very few 3 strippers hanging around ( 1 or 2) and even less with 2500hrs because they virtually all started out a few years ago with just 200hrs!

Gilbertmchris; We have a full compliment of trainers both line and TRE/TRI. We don't have the HUD but do do CatIIIA autoland.

So when the F/O goes onto the Y2 scale...

It's listed as £34,986 on PPJN, so +2% = £35685

Therefore that would only be taxed at the HMRC basic rate of 20% + NI? So quite a good Y2, and then hit by the larger rate in Y4 when it goes to the 40%?

Also, could you please show how you get to the £400 extra from flight/duty pay? So an example of how you get to that 400 would be fantastic please :)

Thanks

Thanks Towser,
Sounding even more interesting...