The integrated course question is firmly aimed at 200 hour gonnabes! ;)

It makes no difference in all honesty! :ok:

So are people rushing to send in application for DEC with a starting pay (ppjn.com) of 57K?! :eek:

Also I don't really get their minimum hours stipulation, for DEC - 3000hrs with a least 1000hrs on commercial jet aircraft. Who's going to get a jet command with 2,000hrs TT? Not many surely.

you have to set some sort of starting criteria, 3000hrs and 1000hrs is the minimum.

57K starting is better than being unemployed! I suspect there may be a few applicants with lots of hours who want to stay in the uk. They may not stay for years and years but they will fill the current requirements.

As for F/O there may be some of the old Cityflyer cadets taken on not sure how many are still in the hold pool.

I guess there is a good chance we are getting two more EJETS then!

As for the integrated course question, well past experience has shown that low hour F/o`s from an integrated course have done well with the training. (in fact some now have the 3000hrs with 1000hrs jet command) If you have 10,000 hrs jet command time from doing the old self improver route then i`m sure you won`t take the question personally!

Appreciate you need a starting criteria, all I am saying is that there must be very, very few candidates who would have gained a jet command at 2,000TT that is eligible, hence the starting criteria seems a little unrealistic. But hey does it matter? Naaa.

Anyway back to the main topic, is the roster commutable? How easy is it to get to LCY? (not very I'd imagine). What's the time to command on average? Is it a good place to work?

Thanks

CC

we have many commuters, train links very good with LCY`s own DLR station. Driving from the north M25, M11, north Circular etc, from the south its a bit more time consuming dartford crossing then A13 or blackwall tunnel or the ferry. but all very doable. Lots of tours if you want them. As a guide 20-30 mins from M25.

Time to command variable, Lots of cadets with not quite enough hours for command but cityflyer has been expanding since it was created. Small company so friendly place to work. Flying out of LCY is always different and keeps the job interesting. Good chance of some new routes. Money not the best in the industry but ba staff travel is good. Staff car park 5 mins walk to the office.

Thanks dhc83driver.

I maybe relocating to the West Country soon, (or Birmingham) so would be approaching from the West or NW. Do you know how long public transport would take from say the M4 side of London to LCY? Or is it easier to drive?

When expansion is complete and it becomes a "closed shop" what is the likely time to command then? Is it still reasonable because of the poorish pay for captains?

What is a typical year one F/O take home pay with per diems etc per month?

Regarding LCY steep approach, I would assume it is always a captain's only landing there is that correct?

Sorry for the 20 questions, there isn't much info on the net (PPJN is out of date) etc. I am in a secure job and need the picture to fit before I think about jumping ship.

Thanks again

CC

I used to allow 3hrs driving from Brum, most reports are early / lunchtime so you miss the worst of the traffic. As with all things you will get the odd 9am rush hour report with traffic!. From the M40 juction on M25 it will take 1h to 1h30 to LCY. There are a few routes to take to avoid the M25 depending on time of day.

LHR t5 to LCY on the tube is about 1h 40. You would have to try your route dependent on which main london station you arrive at. I`m sure people on here can give you accurate times.

LCY is capt only landing. We fly monitored approaches so F/o will fly the approach for the captains landing.

Time to command is hard to predict. Depends on experience, performance and company requirements. If things pick up we could loose a fair number of F/O`s to the sandpit. Seniority plays a part as well and its all looked at by the Pilot review board.

As with all company's it has its little annoying things, Lunch time crew food being one atm!.

Small friendly company with a few perks like BA staff travel. Please note there is no route across to BA Mainline apart from there normal application process. You do get all BA perks in terms of discounts etc.

LCY flying always interesting with some charter work thrown in to do something different, Nice to have a brand new fleet of nice aircraft. BALPA recognised company with a hard working company council with a good relationship with management. Decent scheduling agreement that means if you agree to be mucked about you will be paid for it.

Not sure of the current F/O pay scale, we have just had a small pay rise.

FDP £1.90 /hour

Anyone else find the application confusing? I counted three sections asking roughly the same questions in subtly different ways regarding types/hours. Does the company really need such a complicated breakdown of hours? It makes my head ache.

Anyone got any details on the typical lifestyle for an FO?

Take home pay?
No of days off per month?
No of tours / overnights - or a mix of 1 day duties and tours?
Random rostering or some form of bid / preference system?
Leave? available generally on requested dates or assigned to junior guys?
Any information would be welcome really.

Thanks

This is a joke right?
 

Hi lads... I am shocked and surprised at the ingenuity built into the application process.... you need to register yourself with the company before you can apply! And... guess what, you need a valid National Insurance Number.... is that only for UK residents or passport holders?? Coudl somebody please explain this little trip up of info? Is CityFlyer trying to seriously limit the applications to nationals of the UK?? What about the rest of the EU Empire? The licence requirements even stipulate that you can apply with a JAA ATPL... I would appreciate clarification on what exactly the National Insurance Number is and why it is required to apply...
where I work over on the continent we have numerous UK citizens working and living along with 12 other EU nationalities...
6to8

Just read the faq and see they need 50 hours flying in a rolling 12 months. Not a problem for experienced current pilots but decidedly awkward for modular low hours folks such as I trying to get their first foot on the f/o ladder.

My ir, mcc and joc were all completed in the last 6 months so I have plenty of sim time but only 25 hours flight time.

I'm anticipating it will limit the progress of my application somewhat.

Bugger.

Before I spend several hours filling in the the leviathan of an application form, it would be really, really helpful if someone could say how much (roughly will do) a year 1 FO gets paid, gross.
Cheers
D O G

Superpilot,

Im in the same position as you. It asks for a current IR and I believe the MPA IR should suffice.

What is the National Insurance Number?
 

So blokes, who's going to go first and spill the lot on what exactly a National Insurance Number is and why it is important to the application process?? As I see it, this number allows CityFlyer to accept applications from UK citizens or residents only... and NOT other members of the greater EU community... unless of course, somebody here wishes to explain to me (and others) and prove my theory wrong....
6ot8

Yeah what's the deal with the national insurance no.?? I don't have a UK one but I have one from another EU member state however it's in a different format to the UK one and I therefore can't register....annoying. :mad:

Multi crew IR is fine - in fact it's better than a SPA multi IR!

Anyone know if the assessment setup is the same as the BA one? i.e. Numerical reasoning, verbal reasoning, PILAPT etc... Can't remember the last time I practised for any of those? :eek:

Anyone working there going to spill the beans on what it's actually like working there?!? Ppjn is a bit thin on info and the pay looks a bit out of date. Pm me if you don't want to commit publicly

What a helpful bunch...
 

Man, the silence if definitely deafening... any enlightenment on the National Insurance Number rubish.... anybody??
Thank you
6to8

tryed to call HR twice concerning the national insurance...they said they will call me back...no answer so far....:bored:

Thanks for the info dhc83driver.

Like 757_Driver I'd like a bit more info if anyone would be willing to share please. basically the same info as 757_Driver

A rough F/O yearly salary including diems etc
Days off per month
Number of nightstops on average
Number of standby's on average
Time to report when on standby
Summer/Winter - is it less busy in the winter?
Can you bid for tours away etc?

Thanks in advance

CC

DCH6to8

Did it occur to you it might be because the people reading this forum don't actually know. I'm sure someone will be able to to soon.

Thanks Duf
 

Appreciate your feed back... I have written the HR dept an email and they will respond in due time... I'll share what I find out as soon as I hear back...
6to8

so, is this National Insurance Number only to be found within the UK??

Can't say I'm not enjoying my European brethren not being able to apply for a UK based pilot position (however wrong that maybe :E). We feel like this all the time guys, whenever there's a requirement for local language skills! :{

How about Irish people Superpilot?

With regards to the National Insurance Number, you need to have a permanent UK postal address and register with the job centre.

This can take up to 2 months in some cases.

P.S. about time we started looking after our own!!!!!

Thank you
 

Thanks chaps for the info regarding the National Insurance Number.... as for the other comments, I can respect your protectionist ideals... but I do not support them. I highly recommend (should you be lucky enough to get an interview) that you highlight your stance against "others" in the interview.
Fly safe mate, and good luck to those who apply!
6to8

Does anybody know if Carl Phelan is still the Chief Pilot?

cheers

In the final section of the application form (the give us examples of etc. questions) it states at the top that there is a 1200 character limit on the text boxes. Don't suppose anyone knows if that includes/excludes spaces?

Hopefully it excludes spaces...

What sections do you have to fill in on your forms?

When I first logged in there was no employment or education tabs on the left hand side, it was not until today that they appeared.

In the guidance notes it states there should be a 5 year reference section also, is that on anybody's? (it is not an option on mine)

I do not want to submit it until I know.
Cheers

No 5yr reference section on my application (as yet!), glad I didn't submit this yesterday now considering the new sections that have just appeared.

Simon 150; Carls official title is GMFO (General manager flight ops)

As for some of the other questions i'll try.
I haven't got any pay scales in front of me so can't answer the salary question.
As for work life you should get a minimum of 9 days off a month.
On average you will be away about 10 nights a month, this varies quite a lot and some months it will be higher and others lower. You can request 'max touring' but this doesn't always work!
Summer and winter are equally busy.
There is no average amount of stbys per month, you might get 2 or 3 one month and none the next.
You need to be at the airport within 1 hr from call out on a stby. (Although this may have changed recently I can't remember!)
I have no idea about the need for a National insurance number, we already have people from other parts of europe working for us so it is definitely not a way of only employing British nationals.

National Insurance Number

more information on http://direct.gov.uk or http://jobcentreplus.gov.uk

You need to have job or job offer with start date to apply for NINO.
One word of advice, the longest waiting time for the letter (the crad is secondary once you have the letter with number) is experienced in LONDON. Ignore any advertised admin delays. If you can, go to smaller town to sort NI. Problem is, it's based on 'address'. It tends to be pain even get through one of the few lines to book appointment, in London.

One way to go around this is to pop in to city (Edinburgh was good, fast when I organised it for my friend couple years ago) where you fake interest in agency working, register with agency for whichever casual jobs, then you've got 'job' for NI application.

England is generally worse for sorting 'proof of address' for opening UK bank account, but doable. One easy way, but lengthy, is getting basic 'cashcard' account, opened by post. No need to work, put college student or whatever, copy of passport, voila. Then wait couple weeks to get it all done. OR, pay to HSBC or Barclays for 'premium' foreigner targetted account to set up without proof of address initially.

Anything official, letter, even from your bank abroad can help with that.

Companies shouldn't discriminate jobseekers due to lack of NI/bank a/c organised, but they do.. All of this can be arranged shortly after starting job. They'd not get you proper tax code straight away anyway.

More specific info on 'setting up' in the UK, PM me, can give pointers.

Irritatingly I can't get the personal details section to load , it keeps coming up with " subject object not set to ...." anybody else had problems ? Annoying as I have done all the rest

All those who keep asking the question about basic pay.... Please read my post on page one of this thread. It's simple to understand!! If you are having problems with that maybe a job at BACF is not for you! You'll make my life harder if you get hired! ;)

Duty pay is still £1.90 per hour.
Days off. Min 9 each month except Feb where it is 8. They are usually really good at giving you just the 9! You might see 10 but not often more than that. Can't remember when I had more than 10 off other than a leave month!
Sector pay can add about an extra £400 each month (now taxed at a ridiculous rate by HMRC) plus disruption/day off payments.

Time to report off a standby in LCY is 90 minutes.
Crew food is cr@p.

Summer is as busy as winter with the new seasonal destinations from LCY and charters from other locations.
You can expect between 2-3 nights away each week as LCY based. A few two day trips have been working their way into the LCY FO's roster.

Split duties for LCY based flight crews on Fri and Sun nights are now common.

It has been said by others that the GMFO has not respect for First Officers and only barely tolerates Captains. I could not disagree with that statement!

Staff Travel is same to that of any BA employee, not the same as BA flight Deck.

A great bunch of people to work with, not a great place anymore to work. Shame, as with the right leadership this could be the place in Europe to work. Be warned don't expect it to get better. Just as you start to think it can't get any worse........ it does!!!

RJ.

Ok I read it again, where does that directly answer this question regarding pay?

Because I am not seeing it. Now it's either because I have worked too many earlies on the trot this week, or I am completely stupid, or it just isn't there :)
Thanks for the rest of the info though, the captains pay is on the front page, but not the F/Os (unless I am one of the above again).
Just one more question if I may - how many flight hours on average does an F/O work per year?

Thanks :ok:

CC

RJ100 quick bit of advice please....

I completed the application on Tuesday and have picked up from this thread that there are now additional sections. There's no way to edit my application and no contact info to enable me to query what to do.

I guess you're not HR but with your insight into BACF how is my application likely to get treated?

Am I dreaming to think someone might call me and politely request I complete another application?

I'm guessing I'm more likely to just get binned, even though at the time my application was "complete" and I had no issues submitting it.

Cheers, James

Thank you for the clarification
 

Thank you to those who replied and clarified what the National Insurance Number is exactly... I don't think that my Grandfather needed one of thsoe when he came over to England in 1940 and flew in the RAF!

I have looked but I have not been able to source any secure source of information on the bonding/securing procedures of CityFlyer.... what can new hires expect? I hope they are not asking for a 25000 GBP loan deposit to be paid back in monthly installments?? Can anybody clarify exactly what the bonding terms are? And for how long? With a new born at home, I can't and I won't support paying to fly typeratings!!
Thanks a bunch!
Cheers
6to8

Coffin Corner,

My original post was directly below and in response to a query about the pay scales on PPJN. Sorry if I did not make that too clear. However not too hard to figure out..:E but maybe the youth of today have to be told everything step by step with out using intuition! :ooh:

So if you go to ppjn and look at the BA Cityflyer page, the FO pay scales are on the right hand side (FO) add 2% to those for each year and you'll get a detailed payscale for both FO and Capt, on left hand side (Capt). Now here comes the tricky part ;) ..... we all took a one pay freeze last year so really, a 6 year FO or Capt is actually now on year 5 scales.

I did mention that duty pay or as some call it sector pay is £1.90 an hour with averages out to about £400 on top of your monthly pay. Depending on how busy you are each month. Duty hours per month vary wildly depending on base, days off etc.... at the moment it apears EDI based crews are averaging more duty pay than LCY based FO's. (only from what I've been told on the line). So I guess you must have been tired for that section ;)

Our other payments are also available on-line from the above mentioned web site.

CC... anything else PM me and I'll try and point out where the info is ;)

RJ

Youth of today? I'm old enough to be your dad fella.

PPJN gives out of date info by 2-3 years and says RJ payscales, I was asking because it could be different now you have EMBs.

I can't be arsed to argue about the rest. If you would be so kind to take 2 minutes to update PPJN then you won't get hassled by "idiots" like me.

Thanks for the info. :)