Ted,

Despite being very happy together, we do attract some funny looks from time to time! :ok:

However to refrain from getting personal, I'd be interested to know who 'you' are, regards your last statement.

Genuine question,

Cheers, Ad

Reluctant737

I really have to take issue with some of the things you have just said !

Let's start with :-

So tell me why the printers every day are jammed/out of paper/offline/out of toner ? And as regards the "professional and positive atmosphere", do you mean the cabin crew standing in front of the base supervisors desk reduced to tears whilst being shouted at ? Or the day when STN was shut due to snow and no management of any sort taking control of the chaotic situation ?

Then I suggest you get some spectacles or take the rose tinted ones off for a while ! The accumulation of congealed food debris on the floor, and coffee stains is appalling. The cockpits are filthy, most of the time. You are talking rubbish (forgive the pun !)


Your closing comments, show your lack of maturity, and yet you recently claimed to be a "professional"

Still as I said before, you're young, you'll learn .....

Aldente

PS What other airlines have you got to compare it with anyway ?


PS Capt Ted Crilly

You made me laugh out loud - brilliant !

Well I suppose if anything I'm pleased to have drawn a smile out of you - sounds like you needed it!

And come on chap, tell me any office/workplace that doesn't have the 'irritable' printer, or staff disciplinaries, or operational requirements?

Now, answer me this - say you went to work one day, and during the drive to the airport every traffic light was on green, and there was no inconsiderate scrote attempting to run you off the road. And when you reached the airport, security gave you a warm smile, shook your hand and told you what a wonderful day it was. And yes, the printer in the crew room was fully loaded and ready for a days work, smiles all round. Climbing out ATC have somehow, 'magically' found you a wonderful corridor DCT A-B and climb straight up. CAVOK all the way, and not an ounce of wind on landing. Now, reverse this for leg number 2 etc.

Wouldn't you be incredibly bored?

As humans, we don't like inconvenience in our lives, that's in our nature - but, and this is a fact, if we look at past surveys and compare results, what we rank as (and the difference is considerable) more irritating is having to repeat a similar task, day, after day, after day, after day.

After day...

And that doesn't just apply to our work - have a look at yourselves on here. It's rather amusing really, three months ago I was saying that everyone would be at each others' throats within a few months when this recession started to hit. But nobody listened, and now you can see it, just have a look around - the way people talk to each other on here is now not far short of what you might expect to hear in a high school playground.

So pick out my immaturities, my naeivity, whatever will make you feel better. Because despite that, it doesn't matter how you twist it, I was right.

You must look at the bigger picture - PPRuNe represents a fair proportion of pilots - now if we judge by the majority attitude displayed on here, well, what can one say! It's hardly surprising my profession is in the state it's in...

I never meant any offence,

Ad

your profession???
 

the reason "your" profession is going down the swanny is because of "your" self centered attitude,"your" obvious blindness and short sightedness "your" lack of SA to the bigger picture ie;how rapidly your t&c,lifestyle,disposable income is being eroided not frozen ie;you will have less real money year on year until you get your head out of your ar$e and wake up to what is going on around you!!!!!

if you are 20 years old you have not been in this fraturnity long enough to realise how rapidly t&c have fallen into terminal velocity. they are being driven down by prostitutes like yourself willing to sell your soul(and maybe in time your ar$e if "your" real income continues downwards) to molly and failing to realise that you are not the only pilot flying in the world today.

"tell me any office/workplace that doesn't have the 'irritable' printer, or staff disciplinaries, or operational requirements? " my operations room.

agree with pressman,you really should engage "your" brain before you open "your" mouth and do some research into where t&c were 5yrs ago in fr and 10yrs ago in fr and see there ins a noticeable difference.

will someone in ryr pls have a word with the boy :ugh::ugh::ugh: there are alot of top top lads in ryr whom i am still very friendly with and i wish you all the best. best jockeys i have ever seen :ok:

Ted,

It's dissapointing to feel there's a barrier between what we're thinking because from what I've seen on here, I hold you in high regards, for what it's worth.

Unfortunately the internet is not the best medium to communicate ones real feelings, and if we were to talk face to face, I'm sure we'd get on very well. I've never met anybody in this industry (in real life, that is) who I've either not got on with initially, or formed a friendship within a few weeks of having known them, so it would be incorrect of you to form a negative opinion of me based on a few words on an internet forum.

Although I appreciate where you are coming from, I do realise what is happening, 20 years old or not.

But that begs the ultimate question, and let's keep this pleasant -

Realistically, what do we do?

You come across as an intelligent gentleman, so as somebody with so much more experience than myself, you must realise that people with an ambition will be driven to, if you wish to put it this way, 'prostitution' - peoples dreams form a large part of their drive in life, and you must be able to understand that it can remove some semblance of logical reasoning, especially to young, starry eyed cadets such as myself.

Every industry has its problems, but as above, what do we do to help ourselves? I'm not talking about the new guys yet to join, I mean us.

Because believe you me, I'll do all I can to protect the careers and standards of life for both myself and my colleagues.

Cheers, Ad

hehe,, i love how off track threads go when its about ryanair! it really is the worlds most hated airline, but at the same time one of the most sucessfull,, can you succeed in life by been everyones friend?

lets start a new thread and call it "Ryanair Pilots v The rest of you" and people can put there likes and dislikes openly. I recon it will be a great read.

From Reluctant737 :-

And yet just recently you yourself said :-

Ad (or whoever you really are), I think maybe you should get your own house in order before making comments like that.

PS with regard to the school playground, I guess you were there a lot more recently than most of us ....

PPS Capt Ted Crilly, shouldn't be too hard to find out who it is and have a quiet word in his shell like ear if we should fly together ("Ad", 20 years old, in Cambridge,but the Oakleys, Iphone/Blackberry, hair gel and goatee beard will probably give it away too - probably goes into TESCO with his uniform on as well ! .....)

Surely Waitrose ? ? :confused: ;)

What is this profession coming to :=

Ever heard of a second childhood? :p

There really is no getting through to some people is there...

Regards personal appearance, I have fairly short hair and wouldn't dream of wearing hair gel to work - in those situations where there simply aren't enough hands, and the hat has to go on the head, you end up with a nasty residue on the inside of the cap, not nice. I also go to work clean shaven - work and social lives are kept separate in my books.

I make no attempt to hide my identity - there's a spanking great picture of me up in the JB piccies thread!

I personally prefer Morrisons, and should a trip there be necessary following work, don my beloved Berghaus jacket and Triple Falls peak cap, job's a good un.

Plus, I use Diesel sunglasses - Oakley's are for jockeys :ok:

Some people really should learn how to put the constructive in criticism.

Ad

Reluctant737, as an observer to this thread and up to now not a contributer I have to say I am a little confused by your previous posts. Are you not the same person who on the 14th September 2008, only five months ago wrote this:

and then later the same day wrote:

I think it's now only fair to either divert this thread back to the original topic or else close it.

Reluctant737,

Got to agree with Lord Lardy after reading your comments posted here :- a few months ago......

You sound seriously messed up .......

PS Good luck with the tattoo removal

Phantasm

I am surprised by your comments. Have you actually read what Reluctant737 and his like have said on this thread and especially on the link posted above ?!

You liken me to a pre school child - have you read some of Reluctant 737's posts ?!!!

I see this is your first post on PPRUNE, and by the sounds of it your last .....

I think you will find more people with me on this one than against, and if you have been in the aviation industry nigh on 50 years as you claim, then you will have spent most of your working life more fortunate than others who see their current terms and conditions dragged down by ruthless locos airlines such as those mentioned.

Enjoy the benefits of your final salary pension scheme .....

It seems like Reluctant was having a bit of a hard time back then, looks like something to do with a girl. Looks like people have never had broken heart or had times when they doubted what they might be doing.

Don't see why that other thread is relevant to this one, looks like an excuse to legitimise personal attacks.

Also i'm not a pilot or anything to do with aviation but just why don't ryanair have a union, does not make sense to me?

It is an interesting thread this. Basically you have a bunch of guys who are waiting to join with the hope of type ratings, jobs, career. etc. everyone can understand that. What is not so apparent to the newjoiners is what is actually at stake here. The prospects of you becoming a full time directly employed pilot with this company are almost zero. Sure you will fly their Planes and actually the money might look good, i don't know what the figures are but, the contract under which you will be working gives you NO INFLUENCE WHATSOEVER in what you will be paid. You will ALWAYS be just a temporary worker.
This situation has came about because AT NO POINT have the pilots of this company effectively decided EN MASS that the situation they find themselves in is unacceptable. Thoses who joined as cadets and have been with the company on Actual company contracts NOW KNOW this to be the case. I am ashamed to say that i have not taken a stance on these employment contracts before, bumbling along with the rest of them, accepting somewhat reluctantly what has been offered.
I don't think that inaction is an option.

Ah, Reluctant my little cherub. Still winning them over with your charm, generosity and party trick of backpeddling are we? At least you're consistent http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...tle-offer.html

Still waiting to hear on that thread if you and your buddies will stand up to MOL on behalf of the next wave of wannabees so they don't have to buy their jobs too. Y'know, up the workers and all that. Solidari'y bruvvers!

Just voicing what a lot of people are thinking.
You seem to be much the master of all you survey, what would you suggest to resolve these issues.

Me?

Read the thread in the link it's all there but basically stop buying jobs.

As an outside observer who stumbled upon this thread, can someone enlighten me as to why anyone in any profession would want to buy their job? :confused:

Surely the point of a job is that you provide your time and effort in exchange for financial reward, not the other way around?

Not having a pop, I'm just puzzled, that's all. I work in Ops, and we just turn up, do our shifts, get paid, go home again. Nice and easy! Which is why I have trouble understanding the approach of Reluctant737.

Are you buying hours on your way to a fourth stripe by this route? I can understand that to a degree, but then what happens when MOL decides that Captains can buy their commands too?

Phantasm:

Hmm. I can see what you're driving at, but surely once you're employed by the airline stuff like costs associated with doing your job, hotels, uniforms, training, even type rating etc. should be borne by your employer?

As I say, I'm just an outside observer (My experience of piloting is limited to messing about in a Tiger Moth) but the nearest analogy I can think of would be a nautical one:

Everyone's sailing happily along on the Good Ship Airline Pilot, when a hole appears in the hull (In the shape of pay-to-work schemes).
The logical thing to do would seem to be to limit the damage at source by plugging the leak (Telling the instigators of such a scheme that you're not going to be having any of it).
What doesn't seem logical is to accept the leak as inevitable and hand over cash to buy yourself a place to cling to higher up the mast as you sink lower down to the waterline in the hope that you'll be "rescued" by someone offering you a better job?

Once the metaphorical leak has flooded the lower reaches of the hull (When all the new pilots are buying jobs) it's inevitable that those higher up in the boat will notice themselves slipping lower down towards the waterline (As the company realises that they can chip away at everyone's T's & C's unopposed).

I agree that most professions will require you to undertake some sort of financial commitment to get your foot in the door, but the difference seems to be that with those, once you're in you're in. You're part of a body of people who will defend their chosen profession against those who seek to undermine them.

Is the kudos of being an airline pilot so great that they're happy to accept those terms? I can't imagine a doctor, dentist or lawyer going along with it.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I'll go and get some more popcorn and watch this thread with interest. :ok:

Not sure about the UK (me not having contacts/knowledge in such 'industry'), but in couple other European countries junior lawyers (=fresh grads) often do unpaid 'placements' in order to get the experience for full title (i.e. exp for full B1 lic in air eng) so that they could start being competitive and get 'proper' job - doing less and getting more, leaving most tedious stuff for assistants, stagiers, etc.

I am kind of addicted to reading PPRuNe already, so stumbled upon this thread from another where Flintstone and R737 'talk'.

This is all going crazy. I'm "wannabe" (no, not airline) heli/airplane pilot for the fun of it and having seriously bad times thanks to all the economy crap. Not wishing to get onto any overpriced huge loan thing. Just having my future savings in GBP etc eroded/shot down.

If I'm still alive/with medical, may end up with airline job, being older, less adventureous, although prefer(=think of) smaller stuff/choppers. Maybe flying part time alongside another job.

As others said, there are few problems making it very hard to combat management's abuse of flight crew.
ABUSE. That's what it is. Politically correct, clandestinely brought up, yet mindnumbingly blatant exploitation.

Although I'm selling my life away to be able to afford paying for my training - cost effectively, have loved flying/aviation since nappies, I don't feel like striving to get into this glorified airline jet job.

Isn't paying for CPL and all the 'must have' ratingscourses enough? Speculative SSTR, 'line training', no pay 'placement' (FLYING COMM JET??), whatever else.

Let's just tearn down the whole concept of FO completely.
All we need is pay-to-fly co-joes and after all current captains retire, we'll just start up part-nepotism, part-senior pay-to-fly co-joe becoming captain thing.

Desperation of fresh CPL holders, stomp-over-them-all individualism, greedy companies, unhealthy competition tactique, blindfolded debt misuse, housing bubble allowing exorbitant equity withdrawals/securing loans agains property, it all creates one huge monster, only to be shattered and blown into pieces by new 'group hero'. Sadly, it will go on and the hero/es will not appear. I can't see anything not major causing a shift.

Then, I know nothing of airlines, right?