MorningGlory,

Dont you work for FR?...How can you say "They make everyone else looking relatively civil!"?

:eek: :eek:

I read a post earlier with someone moaning that the Captains were getting more money than the F/O's (sector pay).

Just a thought, but do you think that the fact that many of the F/O's in this kind of set up pay for their own ratings de-values them somewhat? After all captains are hard to come by, it seems F/O's are quening up to 'pay' for their jobs these days.

Its a hard life at the bottom, and unfortunately the peoples actions at the bottom of the aviation world havent made it any eaasier for themselves and others coming along.

If you dont like the pay and conditions I bet there are plenty of other potential F/o's out there with £20 k in their sticky hands prepared to work for Jet2 and the management know it.:*

I think all the lo-co's are pretty awful with regard to t's+c's, however I understand that Jet2 are really pushing the boundaries.

Clearfortheoption, Are you happy in Jet2 or would you prefer to work for somebody else? and does it not annoy you to hear such negative comments regarding your company from outsiders?

My comments are made out of interest, not malice.

What's with lumping all us F/Os together as job-hungry, sticky-handed shaftees with no hours and slim chance at employment? Some maybe. :} But others, like myself, joined because we liked the look of the company, where we'd be based, working conditions, the ability to actually speak to someone in crewing etc who would try and help out..... And it wasn't the only offer on the table.

It takes two up the front end to get the jet there and back.

I feel bad for the folks at BOH being told to move north. It's not so grim as some make out and I'm sure that there are underlying commercial gains, but I hope that those gains outweigh the inevitable loss of (a lot of excellent) personnel which will occur from such a decision.

As for the sector pay, I was pleased when I opened the letter to see it had been agreed and implemented - and not 'cos of the money, but because value is being recognised for hard effort shown and we are being brought up to the standards of our peers. Then I saw the amounts and felt very insulted - not so much effort recognised then. Especially after tax and in place of a pay rise in line with inflation.

I like working for the company, but feel abused by this offer. I would rather have received no sector pay than this offering. I feel sad about the inevitable bad feeling that will come about because of this, since it will sour what is, at the moment, an overall decent working environment. It makes the company seem cheap, penny-pinching and arrogant of feelings of their workforce.

I hope the company looks at this and does something - soon - before it needs to become a unionistic "us and them" scenario. Floodgates may or may not open, but there will be a number of people for which this will be a push in the outward direction.
You can't rely on base complacency to make up for too much, J2.

As I said, I like the company and I like the work, so I really hope that they recognise this as a source of discontent and address it.

Cheers

G :)

morningglory,

At the moment I am happy at jet2.Things can be improved,it's not perfect but I enjoy going to work with nice people.

I wouldn't like to change at the moment ,it wouldn't make sense for me personally.When i get fed up i will leave.

However I think that the company is starting to grow too much to be without a union,so I am with silverhawk in that respect and I am considering different options like Balpa,IPA etc...

I have nothing against FR,I have friends who fly for FR and I know what goes on there,it's not better than jet2.

cheers.

This thread just goes to prove how apathetic some of our work colleagues are, support for this thread is practically nonexistent so why should support for a union be any different?
How about we enquire about getting our own private PPRUNE forum set up similar to those down the page that the real airlines have? It is a start and we could then discuss issues like these in private and this may then encourage more to voice their concerns.

What's the general feeling amongst staff in the crew rooms? That a probable gauge of the mood of things.

ardacre
 

lack of postings does not mean lack of support.

My phone, email and PMs are so busy I've had to promise the family I will not answer any of them tomorrow (Sunday).

Nobody likes an 'us and them' culture. What works best is management and workforce, that is the whole company, working together.

It certainly is truely sentimental to know that with the lack of a pay rise and the £2 a sector pay, after tax I can just about buy a flapjack. Unfortunately not the case for our hard working cabin crew!:uhoh:

I agree totally with Gulpers' earlier comment. I am in a very similar position to him/her and I was, until 'the letter', quietly proud to work for Jet2 - what I saw as an expanding company that had not lost its personal touch.
As welcome as the sector pay is, the large variance across the crew, and the lowly rates for F/Os and Cabin Crew, is divisive and insulting. The responsibility of the captain is already reflected in salary - as is that of the SCCM. Routinely, both pilots carry out almost identical sector tasks, as do the CC. There should, in my opinion, be only 2 rates of sector pay - flight deck and cabin crew.
I hope that ID reads this and heeds the feelings of his staff – personnel are any company’s most valuable asset and those with low morale tend to perform poorly.
PS A private forum for the airline would be most welcome - we shouldn't have to do our dirty washing in public.

jet2 forum?
 

How do we get a jet2 forum? Do we have to ask the moderators?

You need to contact Danny or PPRuNe towers with your request.

Gulpers and TG

A few months ago I put it to some of the bosses that FOs should also get medical, loss of licence,etc because they are not second rate pilots, they are commanders of the future if we are able to hang on to them for that long. Their response was ' Captains are management, FOs are supervisors'




Unite. Application forms for T&G readily available.

That's only going to work for Balpa members. Segregates more than 2/3 of our workforce. I don't think that's very practical.

' Captains are management, FOs are supervisors'

They most certainly don't treat us as management:

-No company performance bonus.
-A week less annual leave.
-No company car.
-No company mobile, to use for all your own personal calls.
-But we do get removed from the quarterly draw!!

Happy flying

Ah, the hallowed quarterly draw....on "induction week" we we told that Capts were removed from this perk 'cos we were payed...and I quote..."like filmstars" !!!
They must have meant the £250 payments you get if they show your home-movie clips on one of those TV shows....

Lets get our own forum up and running....who's up for being "moderator" ?

Can anybody confirm that in order to get union recognition within the company all it's needed is the 51% of the pilots to join the same union?

50% of the workforce plus 1 person, a majority. Workforce, not pilots. Don't try to divide the staff up, that's what causes the vulnerability in the first place.

For practical purposes 60 or 70% is preferable

Pleased to see that support is picking up if only slowly!!
I hope that the momentum continues and that people dont lose their bottle when the time comes to joining a union.

Apparently the Balpa forum is up and running, but i think that a forum here on Prune is the way forward so as not to alienate staff and allow all employees to contribute.

Silverhawk,

You have my support, but who are you and where you based???

count me in

Here's my support to getting union representation, let me know which union and i'll join.Time we started to kick back after being kicked so much.

If it helps i'm already a Balpa member but willing to go along with the majority.

A forum for all staff on here would be a great idea.

Manchester meeting Friday 7th
 

Meeting is 1230 local, Crowne Plaza. All welcome to attend. Attend if you can.

I may be wrong, but I think that PPRUNE make a charge for a forum. I'm sure most of us would happily contribute, but in practice which individual would pay it and how would he/she get the rest to chip in - any ideas?

We could use the Balpa site forum but this would require us to join Balpa, just got my joining pack so will be looking at it later.


Not met anyone that pleased with the sector pay yet!!

The meeting seems to have come about through the sheer volume of complaint that has reached Bournemouth. In fact, I suspect that a group of pilot managers have got together and told the originator of the letters to sort out the mess that he has created.

I've nothing against a union, but this is a far better response than you would ever get if a union were involved. In my experience, BALPA would have (eventually) met with management behind closed doors and some sort of deal would have been struck which would have completely shafted some minority of the workforce in favour of another minority.

Also, the full benefit unionisation is only achieved if/when you are prepared to strike. Even after this humiliating pay award, which has to be about as bad as you can get, how many of us would actually risk our company's health and destroy the public's confidence in our airline? If very few, then union or no union, how would we ever get a better deal?

Maybe us lot whining into our managers' phones for a few days has created more pain than a strike - and at no cost!

MANBLK,

That response is music to managements ears, well done.

MorningGlory, a couple of days ago you wrote:
Yes, our T's and C's are, on paper, worse than dreadful. BUT:

I get a great roster and always seem to get the time off that I want. On occasion, our rosterer has even phoned me to check before publishing. I always get the leave I've bid for. I don't work too hard, rarely fly 4 sectors and only occasionally get up early. The routes are just about perfect and each night I like to get home, which is just down the road. Crewing are pleasant, friendly and helpful and I rarely get unpleasant changes. They have helped save my day socially/domestically on several occasions.

Every day (nearly) is a joy, flying fun aeroplanes with great people. Management leave me alone to get on with it my way, and if I do screw up I don't feel threatened. If I phone a manager, I get treated with friendship and respect.

Now, about the money. For this great lifestyle, personally I'll put up with being near the bottom of the barrel - except that it doesn't do much for my self-respect. However, the sector pay award is an insult to First Officers, and they represent the future of the airline. Not good for Cabin Crew either, and they are the public face of the airline. Our public have noticed that they are happier and more professional than at Easyjet or Ryanair and this must not be spoilt by a mean pay deal.

MorningGlory, I most certainly do NOT want to work for Easyjet or Ryanair or indeed anywhere else. I'm very happy, thank you. But I don't like what's happening.

Ardacre,

You're missing the point! Management know better than we do that a strike is unlikely amongst such a new workforce, and even if there was one it would take for ever to arrange, given that so far we only have a few union members, let alone union recognition to organise. Absolutely none of this is any secret to management.

So how much better for us all the have been a complete pain-in-the-butt to our entire management for a whole week.

will join anything but balpa, an absolute waste of money. just remember tho' chaps, at times like this, as skippers, we are in a perfect position to "ease the pain" a little.

Hi guys and girls,I have spoken to some FOs who are willing to join a union,however many wouldn't touch Balpa due to bad experiences in the past,also a few CPs I have spoken to are in the same position.Personally I don't mind which union as long as everybody joins the same to try to get recognition.Having said that which options have we got apart from Balpa? The IPF and TGWU have they got any experience in rapresenting a pilot workforce?....just a thought....

MANBLK
 

Whinging this week may have made the management realise the level of disgust in response to the 'dual base' letter and the derisory pay rise. That may be why they are willing to meet with us on Friday.

Don't forget the outcome of that meeting is not decided yet!

In the future the management will be more astute as to how they try to implement changes. It is for that reason we need to get organised.

Representation,negotiation and consultation are what is required for the growth of all of us. Talk of striking is panic-mongering.

Choose the right tool for the job. In our case, being a fairly small outfit, the correct tool in my opinion, is the T&G.


I'll talk to Danny about a dedicated forum.

Jet2 sector pay
 

Reading all the posts , I felt exactly the same way when the letter arrived .
As long as Jet2 can get 200 hour pilots from CTC , they dont give a toss about either captains or , especially fo's .The company has expanded rather rapidly , however , PM will not tolorate unions in any shape or form , and if anyone dares to stand up to this insulting offer , any excuse will then be sought to remove that person(s) .:\

I'm on for the T&G, particularly as they can represent cabin crew too.

I agree about consultation, etc, but at the end of the day it is, unfortunately, only industrial action that can offer any muscle in the face of a totally pigheaded management - if that is what they are, and hopefully they aren't.

In the short term unionisation won't affect anything, but our individual responses to the letters will. The likes of Silverhawk should be applauded for sticking their necks where few dare.

So ME109 and MANBLK both feel there will be repercusions from above for anyone who voices any disageement with issues that directly affect our personal circumstances. I tend to disagree. If that were true then it is because the workforce have allowed that state of affairs to exist.

The management are not the enemy. They are not stupid.It is in their interests for the staff to be retained, however one of their goals is to retain the staff as cheaply as possible.

As long as the staff will rollover, the management will feel comfortable with pushing down the staff costs.

Market forces apply.For anyone who wants a long term future at Jet2 we must all work together.

PM unwittingly solves the pay issue...
 

Any of you guys and girls seen this? http://www.jet2.com/News.aspx?id=65

Nice move..... and guess what, the LBA A/C got delayed in CMF following a "pitch invasion" by a load of french students and the MAN A/C ends up diverting to GNB as result..... No extra sector pay though as the A/C off-loaded there and returned to MAN!!

Also, rumour has it that AB gets told by his mates at Eurocontrol at some meeting not to expect any ATC favours from the French.....

So it looks like we could all benefit from a little extra duty pay from the ensuing delays we can expect..... Who's going to be taking a little more holding fuel now then?? :ok:

LCM

I have to say I agree with PM on this one.I've posted on here in the past with a similar view on French ATC strikes.

It does demonstrate how it feels to be railroaded by a greater force though. I hope this will help the management see things from our perspective.

There is always a place for common sense and the voice of reason.

Quite right Silverhawk, I do agree with you, let's hope that Management are able practice what they preach on Friday......

From the article on the website....
After a token stoppage why can’t you just sort the matter out amicably without bringing thousands of people around the world (who, I would like to add give your country huge economic wealth) in to the argument?
You choose to do the job you do and it's appalling that you are taking advantage of your dominant position by neglecting the responsibility you have to your customers…yes that’s right, holidaymakers pay your wages.


I don't think that there is a single post on this thread which I don't agree with either in full or in part. We all know that it is in nobody's interest to breed a militant attitude towards management. Creating a 'them and us' attitude can only do the company (everyone included) long term damage - but at the same time I don't intend to bend over and get shafted every time! Let's hope that management are able to stop this issue in its tracks by doing the right thing and start treating us in a professional manner and with a little more respect. It's no longer 'Coconut Airways' but a serious player in the LoCo market. Surely if we are to play with the 'Big Boys' then management needs to grow up as well.

LCM

Perhaps one should aspire to become office staff. I gather the ones moving to leeds get quite a sweet package ranging from a cash sum to promotions onto the board of directors??!!?? You are all Managers and supervisors after all.:E

I can assure you, you don't want to be office staff. Some of us are being shafted far worse than flighjt crew or cabin crew - at least you still have a job if you want it, not so for some loyal hard-working BOH staff.

Thanks for that Peregrine

I am not sure all the BOH staff who do not have the option to move 300 miles to Lba are over the moon with comments like that !!! The "sweet package" is so good try and find out how many are taking it ...:sad:

The Gimp

Peregrine, that wasn't helpful at all. If the move from BOH causes you significant loss then I sympathise.

Boh staff know they have the sympathy of the rest of the Jet2 workforce, but sympathy is all we can offer in our current state of division. The only way we can protect our future working conditions and therefore our homelives is by uniting. Together as one.