UK ATPL to EASA - moving on
 

We are getting some progress. EASA now appear to recognise historic ATPL theory passes for current UK CPL IR and ATPL holders for EASA ATPL issue (note: not for CPL). This from the EASA aircrew regulation & standardisation team themselves, at the email [email protected]:

Proof of compliance with Part-FCL requirements obtained under the oversight of the UK CAA before 1 January 2021 (e.g. completed theoretical knowledge examinations, skill tests) may be accepted by a competent authority of an EASA Member States for the issuance of a Part-FCL licence in that Member State, provided that such proof of compliance is still valid (in accordance with the applicable requirements of Part-FCL, e.g. the validity of theoretical knowledge examinations) and all required documents and records can be made available to the competent authority to which the application is made.[/color][color=#2980b9]The information provided by the previous points does not mean that a Part-FCL license issued before 1 January 2021 by the UK CAA can still be simply transferred to an EASA Member State, but only that EASA Member States may, for the purpose of issuing Part-FCL licenses or ratings, continue to accept proof of compliance with Part-FCL requirements (e.g. theoretical knowledge examinations, skill tests) which were obtained before 1 January 2021 under the oversight of the UK CAA.

The validity of completed theoretical knowledge examinations is regulated in point FCL.025 of Annex I (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011. Particularly, the ATPL theoretical knowledge examination is valid and acceptable for the issuance of an ATPL by a Member State for a time period of 7 years, counted from the last day of validity of a Part-FCL instrument rating. In the case of a licence issued in the UK under Part-FCL before 1 January 2021, this day would be the 31 December 2020 (after that day, the IR is no longer deemed to be a Part-FCL instrument rating).

A skill test can be accepted for the issuance of a licence only within a time period of 6 months (point FCL.015(f) of Annex I (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011).

For a detailed assessment of your particular case and any further information, please contact the competent authority of the EASA Member State where you wish to apply for a (validation or conversion of your UK licence into) a Part-FCL licence.

Thanks for the info Alex.

I have been e mailing a few of the NAA's on the same point. The only thing that worried me was people like myself that had done their ATPL exams pre EASA ( 1996 ) in my case. But I think that Article 9 should mean that UK CAA are valid whenever they were taken as they were deemed suitable for the issue of an EASA ATPL. Then you just have to abide by FCL 0.25 for the seven years from last EASA IR

Would you think that's a fair assessment ?From COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 1178/2011

Article 9 - Credit for training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation

Regulation (EU) 2019/1747

1. In respect of issuing Part-FCL licences in accordance with Annex I, training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with the JARs and procedures, under the regulatory oversight of a Member State recommended for mutual recognition within the Joint Aviation Authorities’ system in relation to the relevant JARs, shall be given full credit provided that the training and testing were completed by 8 April 2016 at the latest and a Part-FCL licence is issued by 1 April 2020 at the latest.

2. Training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention shall be given credit for the purposes of issuing Part-FCL licences on the basis of a credit report established by the Member State in consultation with the Agency.

3. The credit report shall describe the scope of the training, indicate for which requirements of Part-FCL licences credit is given and, if applicable, which requirements applicants need to comply with in order to be issued with Part-FCL licences. It shall include copies of all documents necessary to demonstrate the scope of the training and of the national regulations and procedures in accordance with which the training was commenced.

Personally, yes, I don't think a distinction will be made. What seems to be happening is that there was an early and politically-motivated instruction from the EU to EASA not to assist the UK while Brexit was being negotiated. The initial blanket unhelpfulness is now being reviewed by both EASA and the Member States with two opposite points of view forming. One is a hardline 'you voted for it' attitude, another is a more pragmatic view that recognises the issues firstly on a more human level and secondly from a legal point of view. FLC.025 referred to above, for instance, is the law and EU States must apply it, no opt-out available.

Converting UK to EASA ATPL
 

Any tips on this? Which country is easiest / fastest?

Thanks.

That thread is 9 pages of people whining about politics with no actual answer.

Standard Pprune.

Part of the answer is here. EASA accepting that historic ATPL exam passes are valid.

Thanks for the info Alex.

Thank you for the update Alex :)

Thanks for the update alex.

Any words at all on whether any sensible conversion route is being talked about for those with uk caa licences?

I completed my easa exams (under uk caa) last year, and had my uk caa cpl/ir issued this year. I’m considering obtaining an easa cpl/ir, so i never have to do those dreaded atpls again, and on the off chance that a easa licence may come in handy one day.

anyone else looked into it at all? Or is it likely to be prohibitively expensive?

Thanks in advance.

I’m not on Twitter but a friend of mine is. He said apparently this thread on Twitter is picking up a lot of interest especially from an ITV journalist who may investigate further regarding the CAA EASA license issue. Might be worth a look.

Validation
 

I have another question on this subject and looking for some help as struggling to make sense of the regulations. Background: I had a UK issued EASA ATPL before brexit and the last time I renewed the IR on it was 2015. I have since renewed my IR in the UK last month and now have a UK only ATPL. I have the right to live and work in both the UK and Europe and I don't need an EASA ATPL right now, but might need it again in later life. Anyway I don't want to do those dreaded exams ever again so my question is if I nip over to Europe and do an EASA/IR test validated on the basis of my valid UK ATPL /medical, will that reset my 7 year clock for my EASA exams even though I will not have an actual EASA ATPL to record this against? I'm not talking about SOLI out just now, purely validation to keep my exams from expiring and buying some time. I know the validation is only for 1 year but not sure how the 7 year time for IR will be affected.
Thanks in advance. A

Has anyone actually perused converting their UK CAA ATPL to EASA ATPL using the TK ATPL exam credit/exemption that Alex has mentioned above?

There are two aeromedical AEMC centres doing initial EASA Class 1 medicals in the UK, but does anyone have any experience organising the appropriate licence skills test? Transport Malta and AustroControl both talk about examiner designation by the authority, is that applicable in this case? Anyone familiar with an organisation in the UK or Europe that has experience with this (specifically for the a320) preferably with Transport Malta or AustroControl TRE’s? Or any other hoops that you need to jump through for the conversion.

Thanks in advance :ok:

Pappaechonovember,

I’m trying to pursue the same thing, but as a CPL/IR holder (MEP not A320) I’ve made enquiries with some flying schools. I suspect our training requirements will be different if you’re an ATPL holder.

However, I’m trying to get an EASA licence using my CAA EASA exam passes pre 1st Jan 21.

very interested to hear who can provide EASA class 1 initial in the UK, as i will need to obtain one.

From what I understand…

https://www.aeromedicalconsulting.co.uk
Aeromedical in BHX do AustroControl class 1 initial, but it’s pricey.

Centreline Aviation Medical Services ? Keeping aviation health on the straight and level
Centerline in central London do AustroControl and Transport Malta initial class 1, slightly cheaper.

I’ll be relying on EASA ATPL TK exams from a while back too. The conversion process seem to need validation from the UK CAA towards the end of the process.

No one seems to specialise in this conversion route (gap in the market!) probably because it’s quite new, and most of the people that needed EASA already have SOLI’d out. This thing really needs ATO support I think because of the situation with examiner designation requirements, and signing off ELP, PBN etc etc etc.

I’m not sure how the process for CPL/IR would differ, I would imagine for a CPL/IR MEP SPA IR it should be relatively similar.

See if these help.

https://www.transport.gov.mt/PEL-67-...on-4.pdf-f6395

https://www.transport.gov.mt/PEL-80-...on-3.pdf-f6399

You won’t need to sit the 14 certificates ?

CAA to....?
 

To anyone who has commenced this process with any inclination of a positive outcome.

What is the process, I current have a 'frozen' ATPL with valid UK medical, SEP, MEP, MEIR in addition to FT 90% ATPL theory passes sat in 2019, AUPRT and MCCJOC (All issued by the UK/CAA)

I spoke to the CAA on 07.07.2021 and was advised to try and "verify" my licence by an EASA authority which may give me the same privileges as someone holding an EASA licence? I contacted IAA, Austro, ENAC (Italy). Two of whom seemed clueless about the concept and still awaiting a response from the Italians.

I understand converting/validating won't help with the lack of right to work in the EU but that isn't the concern right now. If someone could offer advice/guidance as to how I can commence the process and which NAA to contact it would be great.

Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated.

The Dutch authorities were very helpful to our company when we all SOLI'd back in 2019. You could try them.

Papaechonovember - Thanks for the steer regarding the medicals - wasn't aware I could get an EASA initial in the UK. I've also sent you a PM.

Richard Richard - Would be very interested to hear how you get on regarding your medical. My medical was also previously an EASA one, and it would be handy not to have to another full on Initial!

kbd1992 - I'm in a very similar situation to you. The IAA have been pretty helpful to me and have confirmed that my ATPL exam results sat last year with the UK CAA as EASA exams, will remain valid for the purposes of issuing an EASA licences, as long as they are within their normal validity period (ie, 36 Months).

Now I'm working on what flying I actually need to do, though I'm planning on doing it in an SEP simply to ensure my exam passes don't expire and keep the cost down (just in case I need an EASA in the future). I'm waiting for a few schools to get back to me, and a lot of places don't really seem to know as this whole situation is relatively new, but as far as I can see, I need;
-An EASA class 1 Medical.
-Training as required to pass a CPL skills test.
-In my case as I have 50+ Hrs PIC IFR (I'm a Military Pilot, which is how I've accrued these), I'm looking at the CB-IR route, which as far as I can tell, is also Training as required and pass the test once you have 50+ Hrs PIC IFR.#

Regarding the right to live/work in the EU - I'm curious as to how that affects BizJet operators. The likes of Netjets/Vistajet have UK passport holder with a UK base (but EASA licences) flying for them.

Would appreciate any steers/corrections etc.

Why would any UK citizen be interested in an EASA license given that they are effectively barred from employment in the EU? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

There are airlines with UK bases which require EASA licences.

Langeveldt, the Brexit agreement didn't stipulate that existing airlines with a European AOC and base of operation in the UK have to convert to a UK AOC. In fact, they're even allowed to expand which is what's happening in front of our very eyes. And being European AOC holders, they can only hire those with EASA licenses. Brits haven't launched a decent sized airline in decades. Ryanair, Wizzair are happy playing that role out of the UK using cheap foreign labour and questionable employment practices.

And jobs in Ireland which UK citizens are eligible to apply for as the Common Travel Area enables them to live and work in Ireland.

And jobs around the world where the operator has decided to operate under EASA.

Are there any actual jobs for low hours that UK citizens can apply to? Even for those with EASA licenses

All postings I am seeing require EU citizenship

Try ask N.10, Downing Street. London. UK.

Jokes apart, no buddy. As per UK/EU TCA you became a third party Country. You need to have the right to live and work in Europe for that.
Lauda looks for EASA license holders for their base in Southend. Otherwise Ryanair (same family as Lauda).
Good luck.

Langeveldt

Well, since you said 'any', what about someone (like a large number of my colleagues) who are UK citizens with the right to live and work in the EU?

Any updates?
 

Hey, I have the similar situation... Any advice on how to transfer UK CPL to EASA with ATPL? Do you have any progress in this case?

What county are you using to try and transfer your UK CPL?

Has anyone got any luck with Austro Control or Malta CAA. I am currently in a similar situation trying to transfer my UK CPL to EASA ATPL. I was able to receive an email from EASA itself prooving that ATPL exams are still valid for 7 years if it was obtained under UK CAA before 2021 or 7 years since last IR rating validity. Clarification of the regulations is only a Google click away, either Part FCL or FCL.025 (c )(2) which confirms:

(c) Validity period

(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:

(i) for the issue of a light aircraft pilot licence, a private pilot licence, a sailplane pilot

licence or a balloon pilot licence, for a period of 24 months;

(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route

instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months;

(iii) the periods in (i) and (ii) shall be counted from the day when the pilot

successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with

(b)(2).

(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge

examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last

validity date of:

(i) an IR entered in the licence; or

(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.

The email states you cannot simply swap the licences but then says that individual states can accept your training / qualifications if you apply for a licence.

Therefore your TK exams are valid for 7 years from the last IR and you should not need to take them again.

You obviously would need to take an EASA Class 1 medical for the state you wish to apply for an EASA ATPL licence

Hi all,

Any updates on the above thread? Has anyone successfully converted a UK licence to EASA in recent months using the exemptions for ATPL TK? Grateful for any news....

Haven't done it personally as my employer required a move to the IAA years ago, but I know others who have. They've all used the Maltese CAA (TM-CAD), hopefully this helps..

• Submit paperwork to the UK CAA to verify your licence.
• Separately apply to the CAA for a copy of your ATPL exam results if you don't already have them.
• Complete an initial EASA Class 1 medical. This can be done in the UK but must be at an AeMC (not direct with an AME). I think the AeMC's in the UK have Austro Control approval. You'd need to apply for a medical record transfer to TM-CAD if they won't accept the initial paperwork.
• English Language Proficiency assessment. Can sometimes be done over Zoom with an LPE.
• ATPL Skill Test. Potential to do the ELP here if your TRE is also an LPE.
• Any ratings over and above the one for Skill Test need to be applied for separately.

My estimate for the above is £1500.

Smooth Airperator

BREXIT negotiators bangled up the UK aviation market rendering UK CAA licences equivalent to a lic issued by Russia for all it matters.

Yep, I'm a UK citizen about to start my EASA ATPL's, as this will provide more jobs post brexit than having a UK License (in my opninion). However, I'm looking into obtaining both EASA and UK CAA FCL's.

It was such a shame Brexit, as the UK CAA was a great reference within the EASA framework on its many documents including FDM and CRM,etc,etc

As a UK citizen I encourage you to obtain both licences as you’ll run into major issues holding only an EASA FCL without an EU passport.

Retaining the UK issued EASA licence??
 

Sorry!!…. guidance required regards the dreaded EASA/UK licence drama please…

I currently hold a valid rating issued by GCAA, operating for a major player in the middle east (which adheres to EASA rules). I also hold a ‘UK issued EASA licence’ which was issued in 2013 (IR expired).

UK CAA have confirmed that my UK issued EASA licence will revert back to a UK licence automatically. They also confirmed that I can transfer my current rating onto my UK licence, which will reset the 7 year IR cycle with no requirement to resit any theoretical examinations with the CAA. This can only be done as my operator conforms to ICAO third country regulations.

My main question is….Has anyone done something similar with regards to the EASA licence? Are there any EU states that will still allow me to retain my EASA licence privileges, either via SOLI, rating transfer or conversion from UK/CAA licence to EASA state, without any need to retake any theoretical examinations?

Is anyone in a similar situation or can share any ideas/solutions?
Thanks

EASA ATPL exams taken in the UK prior to 31/12/20 remain valid for the issue of an EASA licence for 7 years from the last validity date of an EASAIR entered in the licence. (The last possible validity date being 31/12/20)

If your last UK IR expired more than 7 years ago, or you never took the EASA exams at all (grandfathered in from JAR or Pre-JAR) then you'll have to take all 14.

Ok, thanks rudestuff.

So, Is anyone aware of any state/country within EASA accepting a current IR that could be transferred onto the EASA licence in order to try and retain the licence, similar to the new UK/CAA licence.

I do understand if someone has never held an EASA licence, (nor completed any examinations) that this would not/should not be possible. However, I do hold an EASA licence (which incidentally-indicates a lifetime validity) and I have been current since the day I walked out of flying college. The last IR which I took in the UK was in 2011, therefore IR expired on this licence in 2018 (7 years later). However, I have continued to operate under my GCAA licence continuing with a valid IR consecutively.

I find it hard to believe that EASA, or a state within, would not accept a transfer of rating taking into consideration that I have remained current and have previously held the EASA licence.

I was not made aware of any changes to my EASA licence. Being based overseas does not help, along with Brexit and Covid. Nothing was ever sent to my UK address, email or any other form of contact and I would wonder the legalities associated with this by not being adequately informed….brexit or not. One does not attend Oxford Aviation Training on a full time course at a cost close to £100,000 in order to jump through all the loop holes and embark on all the examinations, to then be told that it’s no longer valid- despite operating in the capacity as Captain flying a wide body jet around the globe. It’s ludicrous and a scam if there is nothing in place to recognise a pilots experience, the airline, the country and the previous/current licences held by an active pilot.

The UK issued EASA licence had a ‘derogation’ in that you could always transfer the IR in order to retain the licence without the requirement of any examination retakes. Is there a state within EU that would also recognise this derogation and therefore allow me to transfer my UK/EASA to their state (even though the so called deadline has past) recognising my current IR issued by an ICAO third country organisation.

There must be many in my position who want to retain their licence privileges.

Does anyone know who we can contact or direct our complaint to at EASA?

I’m new on here, but appreciate all advice. Thanks

Trying to get an EaSa post Brexit based on UK CAA licence
 

I am in the same situation as you.
My last UK IR renewal under EASA was in 2013 and I have been working in the Middle East since 2009
so I have been current on IR every single day since I got my initial IR.
Flying for a major and poorly informed,I never found useful to keep on renewing my Uk IR and never solied.
I seem to be unable to transfer my UK to an EASA country,
Malta CAD at first accepted and then declined,stating my ATPL exams were no longer valid and I should sit them all again.
Any other way involving not sitting all 14 exams again ?
Any tips/help on that matter would be appreciated