Good news . Sets an example to others that it can be done .

It's very good news for all of us, however think I'd want to see the ink dry on the union recognition agreement before calling off the industrial action.

RYR did very well out of MON and Air Berlin, 25+ MON pilots and 40 odd Air Berlin which is more than EZY have got across the line, they have had to put on extra training courses and increase SIM capacity to cope with the large numbers!

and one wonders why they need so many this side of Xmas......

RYR share price down 7% Contrast the current FR situation with EZ


What might be curious is that ez shares took quite a bump this week, perhaps on the Brexit progress, their AB deal and their apparent success with setting up an OE AOC. Plus their expansion plans and the troubles in RYR. Yet in the past coupe of days ez have slipped back. One would have thought, if ez is succeeding, beneath the scenes, and their main rival is in troubled waters, that ez could be forecast to pick up a lot of disgruntled pax. Remember RYR have already said they will ground ore a/c than originally planned and so less supply in the market.

I hope it all works out, but seriously, deep down do you really feel this is a serious offer by MOL?

Delay the talks until after X-Mas, massive recruitment drive and then he will get rid of the ones who threatened to strike... this is the most likely outcome.

Hope I’m wrong though!

MOL is an astute person and he is where he is at the top due to his ability to bargain and to turn things to his advantage.

This "recognition" is a ploy since there are conditions attached in it. What MOL is trying to do is to stun his adversaries with this genius - I'll call it - a stroke since it will lull his opponents in thinking that he has given way and make them think that he's more amenable to "talk".

The worst thing that the pilots can do now is to say "yes, great, we'll talk and we give you the benefit of doubt and think that you are genuine, and we'll postpone the strike". MOL has already averted one in Italy. He'll come with other ploys up to the 20th, and when Xmas is over, he'll start to use delaying tactics to try to get things his own way.

The pressure must be kept and MOL must recognise the countries' unions and the EERC without any conditions. A union can have people from various companies as their members and he can't discriminate by saying that he wants such and such a person in the union.

What he's trying to do - as somebody mentioned in a previous post - is trying to have the control of "this union that RYR will recognise" and that this is just a disguised country ERC.

The only solution to call the strikes off, is for RYR to UNCONDITIONNALLY recognise the unions and the EERC IMMEDIATELY by signing whatever needs to be signed - unions lawyers know what is required to make things legally binding.

I don't believe for a second that MO'L made this call on his own. This announcement has a board of directors' boot prints stamped all over it. It's likely his backside has a couple of boot prints on it as well.

Perspective... EZ are taking 1000 staff from AB alone...albeit not all will be pilots but will certainly be several times the numbers going to FR

FR seem to be on boarding much faster but what does this tell us about FR?

It ain't sorted yet;
 

Thanks. I eventually found it under some files in the local planning office on Alpha Centauri.

Check out RTE news for the latest;

Ryanair has told pilot unions it cannot meet their representatives before Wednesday, the day when strikes are scheduled in Ireland and Portugal.
According to union sources, Wednesday's stoppage will not be called off without an initial meeting with Ryanair management taking place.
Sources said the pilots had written to Ryanair after the airline's unprecedented announcement this morning that it was prepared to recognise unions for the first time in its 32-year history in a bid to avert next Wednesday' strike.
In the letter, Impact said it was prepared to meet the company at any time, and preferably today.
However, it is understood that Ryanair management told Impact that it could not schedule a first engagement before Wednesday.
Pilot sources accused the airline of "playing chicken", and warned that the strikes will not be called off without an initial meeting taking place.
In a statement, Ryanair said Impact promised to call off the strike if Ryanair conceded recognition, adding "they've gotten our offer of recognition in writing."
The airline say "the sensible course of action" is for the meeting to take place next Wednesday and for the strike to be called off.


Cute as a box of foxes.

It's not up to MOL to choose whom he talks to. His pilots choose a union and union reps for him to talk to. He can either talk or not talk and take the consequences. Whether the reps the union sends fly for Ryanair or some other company or are employees of a union (as chief industrial coordinators in VC usually are) is not really his choice or business. That's all just talk to try to portray the union as a plot by other companies to destroy Ryanair.

Unions need to coordinate their talks as he might try to continue trying to divide and conquer during negotiations.

With MOL I wouldn't even rule out asking for RYR employed negotiators to come to the table just to fire them once he has names....

Let's keep our fingers crossed for this to work out and support our RYR brethren in any way we can to raise industry standards for employment.

First of all good luck to the pilots - I'm with you all the way.

Leopards do not change their spots and I suspect nothing will change till MOL departs.

As Reagan once famously said about the Russians "Trust but verify"!

Its a step in the right direction and congratulations to former colleagues. One important issue is that the " unions" work in harmony, if different country reps start demanding "local terms" the process will fail, and justifiably so. Unionisation is meant to improve the communication and conditions for the majority not the minority. The value of "other company union reps" is questionable, its your train set and you need to avoid the traditional left wing issues that have been obstacles to progress that are often ingrained in old union practice, its a new dawn, treat it as such and the chances of success are improved. In short, goodwill on both sides!

If RYR pilots achieve Union recognition and enter structured negotiations with RYR it will be a momentous achievement.
All those RYR pilots who had no faith and rushed to sign the pay offer recently to get their hands on a cheap trick...........you should all be humbled , perhaps even a tad ashamed...........the least you could do now is sign up to a union membership and get with the progeamme.
Alas perhaps offer up your ill gotten gains the from the last couple of months to help fund your union ?

The pilots wanted professional advisors present in their negotiations with management and that they got, as long as those advisers at the table are not currently employed by another airline. Fully understandable since no mgmt want to discuss internal terms with the employees of the competitor. It doesn't say they can't be ex employees, independent advisors or full time employees of a union.

Secondly they wanted to negotiate as a whole pilot body. By negotiating on country basis they are part way there, and again they can use the independent advisors to be present at all the different country negotiations, to create a unified solution.
And the potential risk of firing to they who step forward as union members at the negotiations, can be answered by a united front and further actions, since anything on paper offfer little protection and could easily be bypassed by they who like to delay things through the legal system.

The delay in the start of meetings could be because mgmt want to get in some advisors of their own, since there is little sign of them having any experience of actually negotiating with a proffesional union. Or maybe put together a new negotiating team altogether, without so much historical mediapublished baggage.

Strike to go ahead unless Ryanair meet union beforehand
 

not sure i follow this strategy. if Ryanair has offered the pilot unions talks on recognition (at last) to avert strike action. No one knows where these talks will lead yet and clearly it could be the airline simply buying a few weeks time. However, in this time surely the unions will grow stronger now that the momentum is with the pilots. carrying out strike action until a meeting seems odd. No employer is accept a huge list of demands before talks begin. if Ryanair have completely betrayed their pilots on recognition talks, they will realise any action next will be a lot more widespread.

No one trusts them at the moment and I think the unions are right to proceed in this manner. I mean its only an important matter that can potentially ground a lot your aircraft.... ulterior motive?

One would be a fool of monumental dimensions to believe this RYR mob. They Will try to screw you over, play you and Lie as history has shown again and again. They WILL NOT come around WITHOUT a show of force. Stay focused and Carry out strikes and hit them hard as planned until a deal is actually signed. If they dont have time to meet NOW, this is not important enough for them. Maybe a show of force Will make them come to table faster.

Ryanair offers to meet with union ahead of strike action
 

The management is finally "offering" to meet on Tuesday.


https://amp.independent.ie/business/...mpression=true

It's actually death by a thousand self inflicted cuts for FR the way they're doing things. The not recognising unions game is up but they just cannot bring themselves to admit it.

It's a PR disaster!

Looks like MOL just wants to gain time.
Stay focused ! Don't let your guard down ! Hold your ground firmly !
One more "small" detail. In this era of Android and Whatsup, it is wise to assume he is well aware of all your plans and intentions. :suspect:

When assessing the enemy consider this:

1. They may not count what you think is important
2. Make sure the target of your actions shows up in their excel spread sheet.

Mr O'Leary will face sustained revenue pressure, this affects cash flow.
Shareholders start to worry when it impacts...

Hope the negotiators not only think of there own wallet but also represent the joining cadets e.g. getting them some basic pay during training.

mol
 

mol is the most disgusting individual EVER involved in aviation. As mentioned don't trust him any further than you could throw him even though he is a bit of a little prick. Does he ever have his glasses on his eyes or does he have another set on top of his head.:rolleyes:

Spoke to a mate who’s UK based. Seems MOL is playing a bit of a game. On Friday FR had a conference call with base captains. Shortly afterwards his BC was on the phone in not too desperate tones imploring pilots to sign latest offer. This offer includes a clause that ties them into a five year deal and agrees to abide by Ryanair’s version of ERC negotiation and specifically excludes unions. So if you want a union negotiated deal, wait five years. Base captains claiming Ryanair won’t enforce this clause but unlikely to remove..... mmmm.. Initial impressions are the Leopard isn’t looking to change his spots?

This would explain why he is pushing to the latest possible the meetings with unions.

MOL is taking the pi*s out of you guys.

Remember the guys starting the first McDonalds restaurant and how that one went down in the end for them despite what was said. Also knowing the thirty year history of union busting in contrast to the latest apparent change in stance it must be better placing all bets and action going forward on the known past rather then the latest which still remains to be seen if it’s genuine or not...

I think that it’s fair to say some unions have been their ( members) own worst enemy, the miners union is one and Southern rail through ASLEF & the RMT, these unions have been hijacked by people with a poltical agenda, BALPA seems far more pragmatic and reflects the difference between representing employees in the private sector ( where in the UK at least) government bailouts are rare.

Unions seek to improve the lot of employees, that tends to cost money and that is why MoL and his investors don’t want to go there.

Unions hard won deals to protect employees rights in redundancy probably killed of any chance of a rescue of Monarch and bmibaby before them, it’s just to complicated or rather it’s easier to start a fresh than merge seniority, t&c’s let alone pension liabilities

MoL has invested huge amounts of time and money to avoid union recognition, he has no problem with unions provided they’re his unions, why does he say he will only deal with unions that are represented by FR employees? it’s is implied that that he can then apply pressure on individuals and here you have to look at their track record.

I would recommend you keep an open mind, but keep your eyes even more so ditto your ears, it will like end in one of two ways

1) a pet union thrown a few cheap crumbs that cost Ryanair little, maybe even save a few bob given the creativity shown in the past ( remember the 50p wheelchair levy on all passengers)

2) individual base shut downs in the way that they dealt with union demands in CPH yet they continue to operate flight to/from there! oh I see you’re active on the union front off to Gdańsk or Marrakesh for you and congratulations on the birth of your new daughter BTW

Good luck with all this the industry supports you but we know your up against a nasty piece of work.

Ryanair has recognised unions
 

This thread will shortly go to another forum but I thought the earthquake was worth reporting. Yes, it may not mean what it meant in the past but it IS a change.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...unions-airline

At the same time, there seems to have been some frank talking. "New operations boss admits staff are miserable", unless the re-hired operations chief is speaking seriously off-hymn sheet.

Could the iceberg of indifference be thawing, just a bit? A $5bn drop in market capitalisation over two weeks might prompt investors to think the CalPers fund's call to sack the entire management team isn't such an outlandish idea.

Not a word from M O'L. Methinks he's being sidelined.

Black and white doesn't work in the world of business. Money talks.

errrrrr it was miserable when PB was there previously....

German Ryanair pilots will strike Friday 22nd. from 05:01 - 08:59 AM

Typical of RyanAir - first of all (according to the German Union VC) RyanAir rejected two of the five members of the VC negotiating team, thus infringing the autonomy of the Union to select it's representatives; at the same time, RyanAir is claiming to want to talk with the pilots on the 5th of January, presenting themselves as the victims of the reckless and unwarranted actions of the unions....

Yepp, don't know why impact doesn't join...
And news from Italy, Portugal and Spain?

It strikes me that Ryanair's problems are much deeper than a shortage of flight deck. Having read a comprehensive analysis with timeline of this years events by Bloomberg they are going to be running flat out for some time to get back on track. MOL admitted he took the eye off the ball with Pilot salaries. Behind all the pronouncements that his pilots now get paid 20% more than others a quick look around will show that they are marginally below what would be considered average. No wonder the new chap has stated number 1 thing is to stop people leaving. Here they have a problem because what is left is not the 'talent' the business needs going forward. In fact my guess is one of the fundamental problems is that the Base Pilot managers are not much cop. Those with any drive, initiative, can do spirit have long since departed the fix.

Sound leadership will be required at all levels, not just in the head shed.

I also wonder how much 'talent' has left from other departments over the last 12 months. It will be interesting to see if they bring in folk from outside at lower levels to try and improve things or certainly give the perception of 'making an effort'.

Not surprised a strike is still going ahead......

Ryan Air Strike in Germany
 

Tomorrow Ryan Air Pilots are going on a 4 hour strike in Germany.
For the very first time in the history of the airline.

Go, guys and gals, go!

You have my support, get some change going in your company.

I’m normally not for supporting strikes but in this case I wish the German strikers all the best. Good for you for making a stand.