I think that's all fair comment Rex..

I think currently there is a lot of angst about how the company are picking off items of T&Cs and quite where T&Cs will be in 5-10 years time, which is perhaps not helping the general frame of mind of many in the current workforce.

I would certainly agree there are a few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves"...and I have my concerns looking forward but yes, there are worse places to work.

Well written RexBanner, as a fellow SH'er who joined from a different Northern UK airline. I fully agree with your writeup. I do more hours then yourself (around 800ish), but they are the result of a lot of high credit trips/days to maximise my days off.
If I have to compare my life with the other airline I used to work for before I joined. BA is a walk in the park, so much control about ones roster, the roster stability which is just amazing (0 roster changes since joining compared to 92% roster disruption a month (early to late or visa versa a day before the duty resulting in not being able to plan anything on a working day) at the previous when I worked there) and being treated like a professional instead of a cost.

But having said that I guess everybody is different. At my previous lot people living local to the bases thought it was the best job they could wish for, working hard in the summer but only doing standbys in the winter. I for one prefer the BA system were the work is distributed more evenly over the year, you do a block of 21 reserve/stby days a year and you control your own rooster which as you say rather often results in big blocks of off days (sometimes with the help of a PBW) on which you can explore the world with staff travel. At the same time you always get as Wiggy says, a (luckily only a very) few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves" like Amigo South who aren't happy about things, however there is a reason they joined and to often the reason is they weren't happy about their previous airline either.

I know that BA Short Haul is nothing like EJ or Ryanair.

I would take 5/4/5/3 right now at BA. But that would mean I'd be doing about 15 days less at work each year!

At the risk of thread drift: I think people need to be a bit careful about completely dismissing the "moaners" at BA to much. We're seeing a increasing slide in T&Cs, and whilst no doubt BA is still better than some outfits it's a question of for how long?

BA management style has changed in the last few years, a recent event shows they are now seem willing to unilaterally impose changes on T&Cs, and a lot of the extras that made the package attractive are slowly being nibbled away at.

So whilst I would say don't let the grumblers wear you down their are some (IMHO) valid gripes out there and the danger of insisting in seeing BA through rose tinted glasses now is that in 10-15 years times you could just end working at a bigger version of the company you just escaped from.

I too am very happy as a shorthauler at BA, like others have said it has it's great points and some not so good ones, like Rex I don't recognise the points raised on the "cut and paisted" post above.

Wiggy raises some interesting points and I think he is right, unfortunately every business in every field is about trying to cut costs and they try and do that by reducing T&Cs it's a race to the bottom in every industry and who knows where it will end. I am by no means a socialist (far from it) but I do think that capitalism needs a bit of a reboot and the rights of workers should be the most important factor, unfortunately I don't see it happening.

Events
 

Do any of you guys worry that with current world events this hold pool may never drain? It seems ambitious that with what is going on it's likely for expansion and a willingness for people to travel, seems one bad news story after another! Hopefully me being a pessimist but what are your thoughts?

I must admit I'm not as confident as I was even 3-4 weeks ago. I'm bus rated, but amongst the last into the pool.

The big "red flags" for me are the FPP grads having their A320 courses put back to September and into 2018. That's going to take a big dent out of the vacancies for 2018, both rated and non. That, and the ongoing cost cutting going on under Cruz, I think they are going to sweat the assets (pilots) as much as they can, with little comeback. Pilots aren't going to leave, and other IAG companies can take the edge off any strike action.

Some reassurance from BA would be nice over the next few weeks. I can only imagine how the non rated swimmers approaching 18 months must be feeling.

FPP only fills spaces in shorthaul. There is still LH aircraft arriving in 2018. Just stay positive about it however I would also recommend getting on with your current career. male the most of that then you are covering both bases. 😊

I couldn't agree more, because of the sticking up for our terms and conditions, and the mature attitude of BALPA (compared to some foreign pilot unions) it's still one of the (if not the) best (and very/most successful) airline to work for in the U.K.

I would say the best has to be Thomson , very successful , legacy T&Cs , regional base for LH , just floats along in the background .
Just a shame about the time for command which is understandable but also the not so good starting conditions

That, and their atrocious record for job security at the whiff of economic trouble.

Really I didn't know they were like that ?
I heard that virgin was pretty bad for doing that deed

As with most operators I hear Thomson not as good a gig as it used to be due EASA FTL's. Personally I'd like to see more industrial pressure brought to bear on FTL regulation, rather than the usual depressed acceptance of "that's just the way it is". Some of the new rule sets under EASA are not safe.

I guess the issue is that there will always be a new pilot somewhere willing to bust there a@@ on a rubbish pay to fly contract , as long as those people continue to accept poor T&Cs then other airlines just can't compete

When management release a statement which affects your t's and c's, replace "due to our competitors" with "due to corporate greed".:ok:

It could be a while, whilst they'll have a handle on retirements ( roughly), the rearrangement of the work patterns for existing part timers has only just begun, with bid closure for those involved in May. Only then will follow the handling the new (internal) bidders for PT, my guess is only after seeing demand for that will they look at external requirements ...I short I think it will be a while before any concrete news.

Ea300
Kind of true.. But the impication that FPPs cover SH vacancies, leaving LH vacancies for new entrants is completely wrong.

BA have never, to my knowledge, recruited onto LH unless they have insufficient unfrozen internal bidders. FPPs joining at the bottom, simply enable other incumbents to move up the food chain.

So the monster feeds, and the excrement leaves at the top!😄

Oh, and anyone thinking they'll only do one month of Reserve per year, better hope they don't join on LH!🙄

As 4468 has said and as far as I'm aware there's no guarantee that BA will offer DEPs Longhaul slots. Recruitment has slowed down from the frenzy of twelve months or so ago, internal transfers to Longhaul usually trump external "bids " so unless BA can show they are restricted to recruiting direct to LH by a lack of training capacity, or there's a lack of unfrozen internal bidders, the vacancies are going to be entirely/almost entirely on Shorthaul.

With that in mind, having applied long haul, being a SH captain already for LoCo and having said I'd accept a SH offer from BA; how likely is it to get LGW as a base? LHR is a bit of a drive. For LH that drive would be fine 5 times a month, but for SH it'd be tougher to leave my 45 min drive LHS position I'm currently in.

A very brave move willing to give up a command for BA SH ?
I guess everyone has there individual situations

Nothing worse than gaining command at 30-35 with the prospect of doing 4 sectors 4 or 5 days in a row for the rest of your life.

Do LH Bullets instead ,
I would choose command and part time in SH

I think you would get Gatwick easily enough. 12 captains were moved for the summer from LHR because LGW were short.

The grass is not greener though. Yes three sectors not four and yes we night stop but Heathrow is like swimming against the tide at times. Even if you got command quickly you would still have taken a big pay cut from easy.

If you bid for it, you'll likely get it fairly promptly. Not many people want to come down to LGW but there are lots of FOs at LGW who want to go up to LHR (more fool them).

Mix - come on then spill the beans which rules. Sister airlines for Thomson e.g. Belgium/Scandi/Germany have been working to EU FTL for ages and EASA is only a slight re-jig of this. Its not just a Brit thing is it............

Mr. Angry - 2 man long haul ops allow for 13 hour FDP and 11 hours back of the clock on return leg. Until you actually operate a sector like this through the night, having had min rest downroute, you can't appreciate how unsafe it is. You will say show me the smoking hole then. My opinion is, sadly, it's only a matter of time.

Which trip are you referring to?

At the risk of thread drift, I was replying to Mr Angrys question about Thomson working patterns. I believe LGW-PHU is a 2 man of this duration.

Unlikely. Gatwick command got to 3600 in the 2016 bid, 2017 back at 2300 and this coming bid the FPPs are eligible and eager.

I'm 3700-3900 and below a lot of guys keen for LHS at LGW.

This trip is a 3 man job at TOM.

recall_checked. Not since EASA FTL's were introduced.

Where is PHU?

Think he means Phuket (HKT). And TOM do use 3 pilots on this route, regardless if EASA says you only need 2.

Mix
Which depending on the time of day was what CAP371 allowed certainly 11hrs back of the clock without the factorisation of sectors which only CAP371 had since Flight Engineers went...
The allowable FDP in the afternoon under EASA is more restrictive than CAP371.
So it just boils down to the factorisation issue in pure FDP calcs and the fact under CAP you immediately came unacclimatised where EASA is a more practical gradual adaptation.
Don't get me wrong the trip you highlighted must be pretty tough but that's the limits your sister airlines have worked to for years n years (or near to)

There are plenty of postings with Thomson is the best gig in the UK so it cant all be that bad?

My apologies I meant HKT and apologies again for thread drift!

Recall_checked, from a current 767 pilot in TOM who operates the route "LGW - HKT is rostered as a 2 man trip."

Mr Angry from Purley you're telling a few fibs I'm afraid. CAP371 on return leg doesn't deal with time of day, it deals in acclimatised or unacclimatised. In an unacclimatised state (which my source tells me applies to this leg back from HKT), CAP371 certainly didn't allow 11 hours for long haul operations. CAP371 made you treat a sector over 7 hours as multi sector. For a flight the length of Thailand to U.K. You're looking at 9h45 as the 2 man limit in CAP371 compared to 11 hours under EASA. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story...nice try though :ok:

And to answer your point about Thomson not being all bad. That's true but all airlines are engaged in a race to the bottom to facilitate corporate greed masquerading as "competition". So it's all relative. My buddy in Thomson did a Cape Verde recently. No overnights there any more due EASA. 5:20 out, 5:40 back. Doesnt take a genius to work out that CAP371 is far less fatiguing than the rules we operate to under our European masters.

This thread has drifted a long way from BA DEP! :confused:

Yep sorry about that! To bring it back to BA, I'm delighted to hear from friends of mine on long haul there that they have sensible, BALPA negotiated FTL limits on 2 man long haul ops:ok:

I really do hope the long haul side of BA doesn't change to drastically in the coming years !

Silence
 

Coming full circle again and back to BA Recruitment; those of us in the hold pool are finding the silence deafening at the moment, since the last update in January.

Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?

Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?

They do ..but I'd stand by from some (possibly robust) input from some short haul colleagues about how quickly things can change....

Love_joy

Last time I looked the 2018 plan for airframes etc was as before..."manpower" are about to wade through the rejigging of the existing part time pilots contracts and then will have their hands full with bids from those current full timers wanting to move onto a part time contract ..I suspect until that is done (which is going to take several months) you won't get much if anything in the way of a meaningful update....just MHO.