I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - I'm just thinking that if you turn on the news and you see how much trouble there is out the world, we could perhaps do better than to describe colleagues (whether we like them or not, know them or not etc) as 'crap' - noun or adjective doesn't matter it's just not really something we should say.

I agree there is a spread of ability within any company, industry or profession. I might or might not be your cup of tea, and you mine, if we met without knowing each other's PPRuNe name. Hey, do you think we've flown together already, maybe had a beer somewhere?

Doesn't matter really. I accept you don't believe BA is well run, you are entitled to express that opinion. I don't think that Easy (or BA for that matter) is perfect (from past experience, and from experiences of my family where in one case my father was literally abandoned by the airline, and the ground agent at the desk lied to his face and refused to help him) but they are very limited experiences - millions every year are happy flying with them and thousands of pilots work there, probably most enjoy it?

Maybe back to the topic - BA is something people should only approach with eyes open sure! Think about the pros and cons of London basing, pay, seniority, the fact the airline will continue to adapt in the face of competition from every direction, what you want from your life/career etc. If it's not for you then no snags. I don't think we're having a p'ing contest nor should we - both BA and Easy offer interesting careers, just different.

Gotta go, thanks for the debate.

A defamatory statement must be published before it is libel. In any case the CP statement is not anywhere near libel. In the case here the CP would have to write untruthfully to a third party that F/O Raspberry Titus Crumble is a dodgy pilot before there would be an offence.

Sorry, my old brain can't quite comprehend the point you're trying to make there. Are you referring to the FPP cadets? If so, it's a different system. As for the computer based testing, it's available all over the web if you know where to look.

The entire recruitment process is 'trainable', same as flying training is 'trainable' same as your sim checks are 'trainable' you just have to achieve it in the manner and the time frame the employer requires. I don't see the point? Preparation is key to any interview. Do your homework, work out what the employee wants and then give it to them. What is your point? Everyone going into the process has the same set of tests levied against them. Either you pass it or don't. If you've practiced, read and brushed up on some relevant questions, well done. If not and you want to 'wing it' why not, give it a go. It is all your own choice.

BA is full of opportunities. They are not to every ones taste but they are there. Short Haul, Long Haul, Command, Management, Training etc. The recruitment process looks at you as a whole and the future possibility of you in Command or potentially in a management role. Those reading who have done a command course know what the lessons from group exercises brings. Nurture and guide to a resolution if needed, be firm when necessary and take on board and evaluate suggestions. Finally decide on a course of action based upon the information given. Sound familiar to the day job? Autocrats tend to be a pain in the neck to fly with whatever seat you happen to sit in.

BA short haul is going through pain at the moment as it tries to adjust as a business. Oddly enough not unlike the pain that Easy Jet went through around 2010. The difficulties are that BA is a much older company and the SH feeds the LH. It makes the cost base comparison difficult. It will be sorted out but it will take some give and take from both sides.

As a friend of mine from Easy Jet pointed out when I last saw him at LGW he was tired and frustrated and wondered occasionally if he could just once get off the jet and have a look around some of the places he was ferrying people to.

There are pluses and minuses on both sides of the coin. The simple fact is that the recruitment process is open and fair and produces a product that the training department, as the customer for recruitment, is happy with with very few failures.

If it's not for you then don't apply and leave the bandwidth for those who want to.

Nice to know I'm considered the 'C**p' now for not touching my face in a meeting! :E :} :ugh:

hunter ace, "....What ARE they looking for?" and you wouldn't better this!?

IMHO, it's not enough any more for safety and process but also for the internal senses (feelings, love et la) that you bring; beyond the flight deck, and more!

Wirbelsturm, quality:ok:

WhyByFlier
Many of us within BA might largely agree.

At the end of the day, it's not faultless. However if anyone wishes to work for a British Employer, in Britain, with a superb choice of equipment and lifestyle alternatives, and a very competitive package, then BA will take some beating.

Some other employers in this global marketplace offer T&Cs to attract folks who accept the limited longevity/pressure/culture of such choices.

BA don't need to compensate for any of those things. I imagine that's maybe why recruitment windows are swamped with pilots from all over the world. Except perhaps those with golden handcuffs, who might rather be at home, but have chosen another course?

Each to their own, eh?

Must be my doddery old way of interpreting things but it seems pretty clear cut to me as I appear to have 'got in'. Oh well, irrelevant.

I love your 'latency of error' quip. Recruitment works for Training. If Training weren't happy with the quality of product, as you seem to ascertain that you know better than the recruitment Manager does, then they would lean on 'Recruitment' don't you think?

As for the managers and military analogy, that I do find interesting. Are you ex-military? Can you back up your statement? I have a very good friend of mine is a long way up in military aviation command (flag rank) and, knowing him as well as I do, I would find exception with you statement. If the recruiters want to watch for the potential for management that's up to them. Your career path and choice through BA are your own once you've jumped through the hoops.

A good analogy is that I have a nice car that will quite easily do 150mph plus. It stops on a sixpence too (5p for the young 'uns). I would love to drive it at those speeds but the danged DFT have these ludicrous rules in place that I have to restrict myself to 70mph. I can blow hot air all over the DFT all day long and they won't listen it's their train set and they will implement what they want. It was my choice to by the vehicle knowing I would only be able to drive it at those speeds on the road. Sometimes it's a battle just not worth pursuing.

Enjoy Easyjet, I'll always give you a cheerful wave when I'm doing a Gatwick trip to the Caribbean, Maldives or Mauritius.

:ok:

WBF. As a BA pilot I'm quite offended to be called 'crap' seeing as it was quite an effort to pass the selection a few years back. If you're not interested in becoming a DEP at BA why don't you just bugger off from this thread! You're energy and ramblings would be better served on the EasyJet private forums I think! You can then talk about your wonderful scheduling agreements, hotel agreements and what wonderful people you fly with at EasyJet. I seem to remember an awful lot of 'crap' as you call it at EZY.

WhyByFlier

I hope I never fly with such a bitter person as yourself. I feel sorry for your easy colleagues. What are you doing here on a BA recruitment thread exactly?....how many BA guys are whinging on a easy recruitment thread do you think?

You didn't get in. Deal with it. :ugh::{

Wirbelsturm

I hate to rain on your parade, but sixpence = 2 1/2 p:p

Flamed for a typo, oh the shame! :}

Ironically the redundancies in the military in the early 1990's were primarily politically led cost cutting exercises and the RAF/FAA/AAC were soft targets. Nothing to do with pilots who became managers, more to do with the constant head banging inter service rivalry and petty politics of MOD Whitehall. The farce that was the Sea Harrier/GR 9 withdrawal from service is a prime example. Run by accountants for accountants until they got the bill for operating out of Italy during Libya! But I digress.

I'm not deriving all the negatives I am merely trying to ascertain why you have such a vitriolic hatred for a system that you are neither part of nor have the power or position to influence.

It is what it is and seems to have served BA well. Former colleagues of mine have passed and enjoyed their time in BA and some have failed and taken it on the chin and progressed. That's it. Not worth all the heartbeats.

If you have a better system then I'm sure the manager Recruiting would be happy to hear it, he reads all this gumpf as far as I know.

Ah but Topbunk, it's all about the size you know! ;)

WBF.... Wow! And like the Murphy's.......

Assuming you see yourself as one of the 'good guys', at what stage in the process were you weadled out? Perhaps now is the time to crawl back under your rock and leave this thread to others for more constructive use!

Horses for courses. Why the need to be so aggressive on a public forum? If you truly stand behind your views then air them without the vitriol and with constructive criticism, it gets you noticed and understood better. Enjoy the golf, I've always been crap at it, oh, and, generally, the wife always comes with me. ;)

Anyhoo, enough of this jolly banter, back onto the thread.......

WBF, you can call me pompous, which I guess takes one to know one. You are obviously one who calls people 'chap':rolleyes:, but I honestly have no idea what you are on about! You serve no purpose to this thread, and are thus a troll. Hope you enjoy 4 sectors forever, one reason I left! I guess you are too good for the likes of BA! I'll go back to my nice pint in the centre of Rome!:ok:

We've got to remember that BA is not just employing UK pilots, and therefore I can't see a day when it can't recruit sufficient numbers.

Like others have said, it's their train set and recruitment is not perfect with the odd lemon passing through. The problem BA have is that people rarely leave, and hence it's not such an issue if people are seeing the grass is not greener and actually moving to the sandpit/back to ezy etc.

There is an increasing awareness that BA isn't perfect (and never has been), but that's life.

I'd also say the flightdeck (in BA and elsewhere) has a broader cross section than 20 years ago, but that is wholly unscientific.

Has anybody applied for the 330/340 CCQ and heard anything?

For someone joining next year what's a realistic time period before one has enough seniority to comfortably commute to LHR/LGW on SH? Or is this becoming a thing of the past?

Also, if you were to start at LGW how difficult would it be to transfer to LHR and how long would this take?

Can LHR airbus crews bid for LGW work or is it fully covered?

Cheers

FullyFullyReady

I wouldn't recommend commuting during your intro to BA. (Though I suppose you could?) So that would cover about the first 6-8 weeks. (Cheapish accommodation available) After that I can't see why you couldn't commute. It could work just as well for you as anyone senior. Though I think it's 6 months before you qualify for staff travel?? Also you might expect to do more standby duties than seniors, which run for 4 weeks, including 7 'fixed' days off, plus other 'ad hoc' days off during the 'working' 3 weeks, including a 2 day block. (Perhaps one Reserve month per year????)

alpha.charlie

In BA there is an Engagement Freeze of 5 years. Because this is based on qualifying training years, it is often less. During this period BA will do with you whatever suits them. Including for example, changing your fleet of joining!!:{

Since freezes are only type freezes, (not base freezes) I can't imagine any circumstance where you couldn't transfer to Heathrow Airbus after an absolute maximum of 5 years.
Of course by that time you will also have a valid bid to other BA fleets too. Success based on availability of course, but Airbus transfer LGW to LHR would involve NO additional freeze. It's essentially a freebee!

Regarding commuting, whilst I understand it could be a bit of a ball ache (particularly early on), are there certain cities it'd be more difficult to commute from? Perhaps due to there already being a ton of crew commuting from that location, so making it less likely for more junior pilots to get a jumpseat if necessary?

4468, I think you're right about the 6 months prior to staff travel kicking in.

PS. I'm referring to short haul Airbus, either LHR or LGW.