Those that failed day 1...are you airbus rated?

Also, when did you fail, trying to figure out timeframes..could be nice to give it another shot sooner then 12 months..

For info:

Training capacity is at overload even with outsourcing.

Internal transfers going on as there are problems with the summer schedule that could impact long haul (where the money is! :) ) which are being addressed now shunting the problem to SH!

Company are desperately trying to cover gaps in the SH programme which caused chaos last year and are looming again this year.

IMHO if you're airbus rated (thus only needing a basic course not the full conversion) and only failed on a minor point or two they might come knocking at your email 'door'.

It's going to be an interesting summer (again)

For those of you who got a 'recall' email for another shot at it, how far back was from assessment?

Had my sim at the beginning of the year and, according to the very nice feedback phone call chap, there wasn't much in it :(

Commercial pressure not affecting standards then?

Dare I say it but I think the "it's their train set" argument is giving way little by little :p. I had a strong hunch this was going to happen as the recruitment model is unsustainable and must be costing millions to maintain every year if you think about the logistics of organising visits and repeat visits. Too much of a good thing? Out of my extended circle of friends and acquaintances I don't know of a single person who got through. People want to work for BA but they think twice whenever they have to take 3 separate days off work each separated by anywhere between 1 to 5 weeks. They think twice when they have to pay up to a grand each time just to fly to London for the selection.

Sorry Juan Tugoh but are you implying the hundreds of guys/gals that don't get through the hoop jumping are incompetent flight crew, or at least of a less standard then those in BA?

I don't think anyone is implying a lowering of 'standards' but the goal posts for acceptable parameters may well be moving due to commercial pressures!

Tagged for management!!!!

No, that is not what I said, nor did I imply it. If you wish to feel touchy about it that is your affair.

What I was implying and or saying is that if BA reject someone - for whatever reason, and then change their mind in order to fill spaces because the schedule is falling falling apart as they have insufficient pilots, then commercial pressure is affecting standards.

I make no comment upon the validity or the worth of those standards. We all know some very capable pilots that have not passed BA's selection process.

Pilots within BA have been telling management they have not had enough pilots for several years. Management blamed all the crewing woes on Bidline, which was then destroyed with BALPAs willing assistance. Now management can no longer blame BLRs and it is still bloody obvious that there are not enough pilots; the desperation is becoming increasingly obvious.

Not sure I'm being touchy mate, that's how I took it, and I'm sure that's what you meant anyway- otherwise what is the point of your post, other then to state the obvious? It's called supply and demand, it has an effect on 'standards' as you put it all the time - at least in a lot of other airlines. Perhaps that's what you meant, that BA's recruitment process is always of the same standard and doesn't change, however it was different last year to 2010, so not sure that's true either. It's not like BA are changing their minds on their initial assessment of the person, as far as I have read, people are having to be retested....just sooner then the original 12 months. Hardly worth someone in BA already commenting about the standards are changing, based on what you've said I assume you are in fact happy that the standards are perhaps increasing? That maybe finally, they're using some common sense?

On the flip side to, 'We all know some very capable pilots that have not passed BA's selection process,' I guess we also know some useless ones pass?! ;)

VJW - I explained what I meant, I really do not care whether you accept it or not. The comment was a reflection on management ineptitude. Dress up your sensitivity anyway you like, you are still being somewhat touchy.

Lucky for me, I too care not that you think I'm being touchy.

You explained what you meant, because it needed an explanation. It might well have been about your managements ineptitude, but it still has an undertone of insinuating that any of us fortunate enough to get in having not waited the 12 months, was somehow doing so having not met the recruitment standard (What I was implying and or saying is that if BA reject someone - for whatever reason, and then change their mind in order to fill spaces because the schedule is falling falling apart as they have insufficient pilots, then commercial pressure is affecting standards). They aren't presumably changing their minds, and offering jobs to people that failed. It appears they are retesting people on elements they failed, so unless as Wirbelsturm suggested, they widen the goalposts a little (which no one here will actually know), the recruiting and testing standards to which you refer remain unchanged, the wait period is all that'll change. Is that such a big deal for someone already in BA, who's admitted you're short of crew?

Alright ladies, thank you...


Now BA SH is 100% blind line (am I right in saying that?) what do rosters look life for the latest joiners? Can anybody give an indication of how many forced overnights a typical low seniority FO can expect in a month?


Thanks

It is most certainly not 100% blindline!!

Juan Tugoh & Wirbelsturm,

Perhaps you were both recruited as the result of "commercial pressure"
Can you deny it & prove otherwise? Glass houses & stones etc.......

Not so, but OTOH the level of roster control one used to have with a Tripline has been very much reduced
now that there's the possibility of extra trips being added to lines by the company after provisional roster publication.

Same now applies for Long Haul.

Absolutely!!! The only reason any company would invest in expensive manpower (personpower????) is due to commercial pressure leading to a stretching of the available assets. That's business!!!! We were all recruited under commercial pressure to keep aircraft flying and revenue generated.

What is interesting in this case, and thus my comment about moving goalposts, is that the HR department have always been obstinately stubborn about allowing a change to the set down procedures for those who don't pass either the day 1 or day 2 procedures. IIRC the recruitment department has often looked into changing the swimming time in the pool, the time frame between applications, retesting day 1 etc. etc. etc. and it has been resisted as 'it's the BA way'.

What is happening now is that due to the death of Bidline, the move to 34 pay points, the time to command, the BARP pension scheme and the workload on SH there are fewer candidates applying for the role and the 'pig headedness' that used to exist in the system doesn't have a place anymore. Perhaps this is a stark wake up call to senior managers and the board who have always believed that BA is the 'Golden Goose' of the UK airline world that it is no longer seen that way and other companies are just as enticing. If the recruiters are going to fulfill their mandate to the training department they need greater flexibility and thus, I believe, the ability to recall those that fell at a purely test driven hurdle, that may well possibly have just been a bad day, is a good thing. The commercial pressure is generating company side change, finally!

No need for the glazier as no stones were thrown. :ok:

Wirbs..

Nail firmly hit on head, most especially the penultimate paragraph.....

Given the factors you mention (all of which I agree with) it will be interesting to see what effect any feedback today's DEPs give to their mates is going to have on future recruitment.

Just for balance,

For those applying or looking at applying it is a great job with lots of great people and, in my opinion, a relaxed, professional end enjoyable atmosphere to fly in.

It is very busy on SH, so I've been told. LH is a different beast but, if the doom mongers be believed, LH is the next to feel the EASA axe so that might or might not change, we'll see when November comes around! :sad:

The first few years on blind lines are undoubtedly tough however the opportunities are there if you can slog it out.

It's a good company but with it's warts, pretty much like any other company. Is it the 'best' employer? Well that depends upon your requirements and your lifestyle choices but it is a good employer.

Wirbelsturm well said.

I have to wonder though, lots of guys already in BA always imply that while a good employer things can of course be better, i.e. you work hard on SH it seems etc etc. While I'm sure that is of course true, I sometimes would just love for you guys to go work for a Loco for a month and come back and tell me how hard it really is in BA :ok:

VJW, I worked for a Loco for over 3 years and can categorically state that the short haul rosters in terms of time in uniform is on par or even worse than a loco roster.
LGW BA short haul roster is uncannily similar to an EZY one.

So am sorry but you are stirring the pot without knowing people's backgrounds

That's why I ask!

Don't work for Easy so no idea what their roster is like.

No need, one good friend and former colleague of mine is a TSC with Ezy at Gatwick and we have discussed his, admittedly self built, training rosters in comparison to LGW SH rosters and they are, from a training perspective, broadly similar.

I also have another friend and former colleague who is a line swine Skipper at LGW for Ezy and the rosters are also broadly similar. Ironically the stock line at Ezy is more predictable than the 'new' bidline as BA now have the ability to 'Force Assign' if you have the audacity to bid low to release bank or even fancy a specific day or two off.

On the plus side once the rosters are fixed they are generally bomb proof.

I would assume that bumping 850+ hours a year in SH is pretty busy, it's many years since I was there and it wasn't anywhere near as back breaking as it is now but then that's the world we live in now. :eek:

Sorry, but I didn't intend to compare EZY to BA. While they are by definition Loco, compared to my lot I'd say they have it 'easy'....pun intended.

Ezy is the only 'Loco' that I still have friends in, those in Ryanair and Jet2 moved along pretty quickly!!!!

As a shorthaul pilot at BA, I got a tripline for June, and every month previous to that for the last 4 years, except 1....I think was through choice. Yes BA have tweaked the ruleset somewhat, but only if you bid low on credited hours on a month. I strategically block all my work up at the beginning of the month so as to avoid a forced assigned trip at the end of the month which seem to be few and far between. Certainly not 100% blind lines on shorthaul. Probably 25% blindlines but for someone getting in now, would only be in that territory for a matter of a few months.

Wirbelsturm you have said all that I was trying to say far more diplomatically than I did or can, for that I thank you.

SinBin

:confused:


Maybe you've been lucky or maybe that's a consequence of Short Haul roster construction.

Those DEPs considering/heading for Long Haul need to be aware that there certainly pilots, most especially the 744, who have been force assigned extra trip(s) having been at or very close to CAP. The "tweak" is more than a "somewhat" and bidding high /blocking the work at the front of the month certainly offers no protection from "Force Assign" (on any fleet).

waiting to hear from BA
 

My husband had a sim test with BA yesterday and we're waiting to hear from them. Do you know how and when they'll contact him? I'm finding the waiting agony.

help
 

I want to join BA! :{

Same... Don't know what's harder jumping through all the hoops to convert to EASA ATPL or the thought of the BA selection process!

Just got the email that I made it through to round 2 :eek:

Ba direct entry pilot......second go
 

I have been asked to re-apply to BA.Has anybody here done this.....did you re-do all the questions.....I figure the only thing that has changed is my total hours on the A320. I only got as far as the first assessment day at LHR last time...I wonder what has changed...BA desperation perhaps?
Anybody got any ideas?

Wiggy, perhaps it is a shorthaul thing, granted it is still a risk, but the lines I go for are the ones with more work at the front, and looking on ibid you will see most RA trips are at the front of the month on shorthaul, as far as long haul especially the 400, it's probably much different. If they had the right numbers in the first place, instead of the constant figure fudge, we wouldn't be talking about this. Anyway sorry for the thread creep!

hunter ace

Yep..just about every pilot in BA knows what's gone on (and it's been mentioned by others in earlier posts), it goes roughly like this:

1. Once upon a time work coverage was getting tight but rather than recruit in large numbers some in management convinced themselves that this shortfall was down to the pilots being lazy or inefficient. They thought they could avoid costly recruitment of costly pilots if they could get rid of significant elements of the scheduling agreement.

2. Management succeeded in getting rid of significant elements of scheduling agreement :mad:....however...

3. Now it seems the cunning plan hasn't fixed things and with an increase in the flying programme, new aircraft deliveries and retirements starting to pick up they're now really really struggling to cover the work and they've got themselves on the back side of the drag curve, so to speak. There's little if any flex left in the system but in any event they start asking for the likes of sell back of leave (but many full timers are ringing the 900 hour bell so that just kicks the can a few months down the road..) ask Part Time pilots to give up days off, and also it seems they are going back into the market place urgently looking for DEPS who they can fast track through the recruitment process because they were needed yesterday - which is where you come in....... :ooh:

SinBin

Tell you what, if you've genuinely found a solution to FA I'd patent it, bottle it and sell it....;) hope it continues to work for you.

Understand why they are targeting Airbus rated to ease the training capacity issue and get the SH numbers up as quickly as possible. But is it likely enough will be sort? Will this apply soon to us non rated guys who just fell short last time? Very much hope so.

Well that's never going to happen!!! They've gone from 'costs flat' to 'cost saving', killed Bidline as it was all our fault that the work couldn't be covered, killed the final salary pension scheme with rumours that it will be closed this year to further accruals, extended the pay points and rehashed duty and working hours just prior to EASA.

Sad to say that there is almost no going back from that, death by a thousand cuts. :{

On the brighter side there is some constructive work going on on the pre departure sandwiches front. (not for you flat earthers obviously!!! ;) )

Just got the email to say I can re-attend and all that's required of me is to resit the maths. That's exactly what I thought I failed, probably due to burning myself out whilst concentrating so hard on the other tests. As I've now got a serious shot at making Stage 2, I think I will give it another shot after all :ok:

Good luck! :D

For those that have been successful, what material did you use to prepare?

BA Direct Entry Pilot.
 

Superpilot when did you initially apply?