bex88
 

Out of curiosity, with those figures you quoted, is FPA (circa 650) a monthly occurrence? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term...

So (if my poor maths holds up), you're looking at a basic of around 4300PCM, plus 650 + 1000, so around 5000 gross (3500 net) per month as a DEP on long haul?

I only ask as I have a few mates interested in applying to get back home, just wondering how the numbers stack up, not that money is the main driver, for most its the desire to move back home.

£52kpa + another £12kpa in duty pay gives you £64000 per year. At current tax rate that netts you approximately £3700 per month after tax and NI. If you pay the max 6% into your pension then your take home becomes £3500.

On top of that are your allowances at approx £650 per month. These are, I believe, taxed at a very marginal rate (if at all) and so you can expect to see £5-600 of that in your pay packet. Take home pay, per month then would be approximately £4100 per month.

OUCH!!!

As much as I would love to chuck in the towel with the mob I work for in HKG, my take home pay (including housing) is THREE TIMES that.

I know money isn't everything, but that's a show stopper.

Shame.

:{

Yeah... but what we're talking about here is starting FO pay. There are 34 pay points...

Is your pay, FO or Capts pay, do you have seniority etc?

10 year F/0. Trapped in my golden handcuffs.

Money isn't everything, but... seniority is.

Biggest error of judgement I ever made joining this outfit.

:ugh:

Flying clog;

If being trapped in golden handcuffs is difficult, think about facing a third redundancy in under 5 years and facing no job and no income after xmas followed by a pension that wouldn't support a small hamster. Then consider that your best hope is a selection process with an 80% chance of failure, even at the first stage. Things suddenly don't look too bad do they?

Put yourself in the position of the Monarch guys or even someone like myself. You could easily wind up as a Grounded clog.

I'll get me coat...

Starting FO pay as a year one FO (about a year after starting your upgrade from SO is a take home of around £7300. This is on a normal non-expat contract with no housing.

Seniority-based pay scale goes up gently, take home as a fresh skipper around £11500 net.

Similar number of pay points to BA.

Not that it's the only consideration, but the money in the UK isn't great.

Do people delsy dine to supplement their salary? HMRC would love that. Are the allowances enough to cover your host bill?

Allowances are easily enough to cover your Host bill unless you're unfortunate enough to have 2/3 HKGs in a month in which case your wallet and liver might take a bit of a bashing.

Yep, what Megaton said...as long as you're vaguely sensible :oh: your allowances daily rate will cover the "Host" bill for most destinations.

Don't forget though that the cost of living in Hong Kong is astronomical, way more than the UK which itself is expensive. Unless you're slurping on noodles in Mongkok, it's definitely not cheap.

My mate is a three striper on short haul at BA. Every year he's put in a bid transfer for the 747 so why is he still being denied..?

Nonsense. Happy endings are far cheaper in HK :O

Still frozen or lacking seniority. The process of fleet transfer within BA is transparent and open.

What Juan said. .........OTOH the postings ("transfer") system is quite dynamic, so given the rate of change in the P&P arena at the moment it's possible your mate might get a pleasant surprise (albeit at short notice...).

IIRC

Moving from two to three stripes occurs after four years. The Engagement Freeze runs to five years. But your mate could easily have told you that? So 'every year', he's either been frozen, or he's only been bidding for 747. (they've had few vacancies recently as the number of hulls is reducing) Though he could likely have had A380, B777 or B787 had he been unfrozen AND bid for them.

Or maybe he's waiting for the A350?

Choices, choices!

The process is completely and utterly transparent. Unlike very many other outfits. Though I have just read of the possibility of 'denied bids' in 2015, due solely to BA's lack of required training capacity.

Flying Clog.

Your 'biggest error of judgement' is preferring the number in the bottom right corner of your pay slip above everything else! I hope Beijing don't come a knocking!

His joining year was summer 2006 so it must be seniority.

Will new hires jump over him if needs must..?

In any normal year, new recruits would only be accepted in a seat for which there are insufficient unfrozen internal bidders.

However, it's looking increasingly likely that 2015 may not be a normal year.

Agree with that. With all due respect to anyone out of a job or with an unpleasent base though, you will have to agree that being based in London (and before you all suggest, no I don't want to spend the only life I have commuting unless I really had to..) on a 4k net salary is not the best contract in the world.
I don't need to live in Myfair, but 4k will not go far in London or in the South East in general.

Yes there' s more to it than mere net salary, but I don't see any accomodation provided, private schooling payed, or company car and phone here right?
So please tell me, what should one be looking at if not the number at the bottom right corner?

I don't live in London, or the South East. BA have pilots who live in NZ and pretty much everywhere (in both directions) in between. Commuting to one's tax haven is not for me, but our rostering and remuneration (currently) allows it, for anyone who so prefers.

Individual choice and all that.

At least one of our top paid pilots is taking home £20k per month. (He doesn't live in Mayfair either!) Horses for courses!

Personally, I'm not bothered about dying rich, but I would like to enjoy the journey, because (accommodation/private schooling/company car or phone?) it won't be long for any of us, before it's gone!

One pilot in BA taking home £20k per month?

That sir, is rubbish.

Perhaps if a trainer on the top pay point in a month where profit share was paid and they had done LOTS of overtime the previous month, he could take home £12k.

Put it this way, there is perhaps only one The Director of Flight Ops, but his profit share is never explained.

I suppose that's the rub. Undoubtedly, if you took home £10,000+ in a month, ones gross salary in the UK is very handsome. The tax regime is so incredibly punitive, it's pretty hard to capitalise and generate wealth over and above a certain level; which, these days, is quite low.

Am I remembering rightly that the IR seemed to create/change legislation in such a way that it seemed like it was exclusively targeting flight crew commuters who were able to previously minimise their UK tax exposure whilst working for UK Airlines?

As has been said, :hmm:...but OK, it might just be one....

I guess if a senior pilot (top pay point, possibly a trainer) had a very very good month with payable work/back pay, and wasn't exposed to much UK tax that sort of figure might just be possible once in a blue moon but it sure as heck wouldn't be the norm.

FWIW if the pilot is a non UK resident it might be worth considering there may well be "income tax" to pay on that income in the country of residence so the bottom Right Hand corner of the UK pay statement might look good but it might not tell the full story:{

I suspect the normal senior mortals resident in the UK might see half that if they were very lucky, on a good month....

My emphasis - answer: AFAIK there aren't any plans, just a few guesses...

[Speculation] If the retirement age stays "as is" then logically you're going to see (best guess) perhaps 100+ a year retiring starting in the next couple of years. OTOH if someone decides to challenge the age 65 rule and is successful in that challenge ( and rumours are starting to circulate :bored: ) then all bets are off. [/Speculation]

That said there are signs that attrition and being nibbled to death by ducks is starting to take it's toll and there's a handful (<10) going from the more senior fleet(s) in the next month or two.

The number of pilots hitting CRA is low for the next 5 or so years, in the tens not hundreds, before it ramps up to around the 100 p.a. figure in a decade from now. Currently new commands and moves are largely being generated by new fleets/expansion.

So the best time to get in is about 5 years from now then, just in time to see your seniority shoot up :ok:

I couldn't hold it in any longer; hilarious :D
But on a serious note Mr Gammon Flaps, they say the sea is never always still; who knows! Just maybe.

And there's the rub. Sitting next to a skipper who in one month has netted say a third of what you net in a year. A command so far away that it may as well be in another lifetime. What stories do you trade as you cross the pond? How he/she took the other half to Barbados for a mini break whilst you took the missus to to the local shopping centre for a spot of lunch at Nandos?

Sure the 744 is a nice beast and BA is still one of the more stable jobs out there but Mr Gammon Flaps paints an entirely different picture.

Thank you Mr Gammon Flaps. I know the individual concerned, and he closely resembles your description.

For those non believers.... Do I look bovvered?:rolleyes:

Incidentally, it was recently 'accidentally' revealed that an A320 captain earned over £55k over the last year in overtime alone! He's not terribly senior.

The money is still here if you are happy to sell your soul to the devil. Personally I choose not to,

To put another, more positive spin on things...

I took a 40% pay cut to move to BA. Frankly, I honestly don't miss the money. You can't put a price on quality of life and a decent career.

Anyone who thinks you can't have a good life living on £4k net a month plus, even with kids and living around London, needs a very serious reality check. The starting salary of £4k a month net puts you easily inside the top 10% of UK earners.

Some of those non-believers understand the difference between a payslip bottom corner that reflects PAYE (UK) vs. a payslip reflecting taxation in a non PAYE system (e.g. France)....:sad:

Anyhow, back to the thread

I guess nobody has a spouse that works and earns good money? My wife works in Finance and makes more than I do... Are all pilots on Pprune married to stay-at-home spouses? Sounds like it. Nowadays a 2nd income is a necessity - especially if you have kids.


Back to the BA Direct Entry Pilot topic....

'Anyone who thinks you can't have a good life living on £4k net a month plus, even with kids and living around London, needs a very serious reality check. The starting salary of £4k a month net puts you easily inside the top 10% of UK earners.'

AMEN.....

Well said EV.

It couldn't be any simpler: if you can't live on £3.5k-£4k or are worried about time to command, don't bother applying.

People talking about earning £20k/month (even if gross) is not something that should be of concern to a new joiner.

I'm sure BA will get over you.

Hey wiggy.
Have you never heard the term 'take home pay'?

I said what I mean, and I mean what I said.

I think if S/H goes "sideways" time to said command will drop sharply, the caveat; that command will be with an IAG subsidiary. Not BA.

The standard BA career path and freedom to move between SH and LH on one seamless BA contract and set of T&Cs may well cease to exist at some point in the future. IAG is not going to support the benefits our legacy agreements bring anymore, that much is clear. I would hazard a guess the music will stop sometime in 2016, at which point it will be important to be in a seat you don't mind sitting in for a long time.

If you are 35 or above and leave Ezy, or even the Middle East, abandoning a command or an impending left seat promotion then I think you are nuts. If you have 35 years to play with and accept the airline is in a state of massive change then come on in, the water is decidedly lukewarm.

Yes I have, and I'm sure you do.

I could play the same "game" with my payslip because of where I live and am taxed, but the only person I would be fooling would be myself. If the original comment had been "his take home is 20K a month, mind you he/she has yet to pay tax in Ireland/France/Upper Volta or wherever" then eyebrows wouldn't have been raised, and the non-believers wouldn't have been quite as vociferous since 20K gross is, whilst unusual, at least credible.

Ultimately I know you (and probably others) think I'm coming over like a right phiart but I'm not looking to argue for the sake of it. I do however think it's important potential joiners don't make a life changing decision because they were unknowingly comparing apples with oranges.

Right, I am now off to console myself by looking at the "take home pay" on my own payslip :D whilst ignoring the tax bill that hit the door mat a few weeks back :ouch:....:sad:

Applying online
 

Have tried Safari, Chrome, Firefox IE10 and no browser can get past the disability scheme question. Those who have applied, how did you manage it?

Cheers

BitMoreRightRudder - I sincerely hope you are wrong.

BMRR I think you're spot on with your predictions. I thought in the past you were slating ezy and extolling the virtues of BA but I was wrong - your previous posts were pretty down to Earth and realistic.

andymiff,

Had the same problem - cleared up when I went to the local library to use a Windows PC running a recent (I'm guessing) version of IE. None of my Apple devices worked.