My thoughts exactly!

No they won’t. They can take you to the high court to seek an injunction to stop you working but why an earth would they bother for a pilot. Yes if you’re a board member who is a genuine threat to the business by going elsewhere, just a pilot though? Absolutely not.

Sorry to say it but if you think you are that important that Ezy/Ryanair will fight that hard to keep you (particularly at the moment) then you’re nuts.

Integrity argument... kind of. Again... do you think your new employer actually gives a damn? There is no blacklist of people that have jumped ship, you forget you’re just a number (not always a bad thing!)

Not to say that people should run out and start doing this (ideally you’d always want to honour your employment obligations obviously!) but there has to come a point where you put yourself first if the circumstances demand it. Imagine you’re working in an office with a three month notice period waiting for your first airline job and your dream job phones you up and wants you in the very next day, of course you’d be there, as would everyone reading this. It’s really not that different.

Not that I’m advocating this but I remember a few years ago TAP were offering positions at very short notice and were actively encouraging pilots to leave their previous company without notice, saying they were happy for them to join without a reference etc.

At an airline where recruitment/movement up the MSL is slower than BA, the DOJ was even more important and I know FR for example lost a not insignificant number almost overnight!

Mythbusting time!
 

" All recruiters know each other!" NO!
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.

I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!

I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B

Great post

Key takeaway here is the HR point. References really don’t exist anymore. All you will EVER get is a ‘confirmation of employment dates’ or something similarly titled. Reason is no one wants to be sued for giving a bad reference so are scared of them, quite reasonably. And absolutely right about the chief pilot point, modern airlines are not old boys clubs where if daddy wore the right squadron tie you got in, everyone is equal and you’re based purely on the application, nothing else.

I expect that once this crisis is over, BA won’t be able to get new pilots in fast enough. They have acquired the Flybe slots and I’d be very surprised if they sell any of those.

Plenty of people have left Ryanair without serving their notice period. I flew with a captain who received a job offer on a turnaround down route, handed his ID and iPad in on return to base and was never seen again. It’s not the worst advice in the world in the current climate, and airlines have bigger fish to fry right now than chasing an FO for not serving their notice.

The best advice though is don’t go to BA. Their true colours have been shown in their treatment of pilots and cabin crew with signed contracts to join. From what I gather, the goodwill doesn’t improve after joining either.

i don’t think they are any different to any other company.

Out of interest, where's this no course until next February coming from?

bex88, I don’t know you nor have I ever met you, but I would gladly buy you a beer if and when we ever crossed paths.

Here here Bex 88. Calmer heads need to prevail over the next 6 months.

This is just a completely unprecedented situation which is quite clearly going to require some sacrifice from everyone if no one is to lose their job.

The press conference today with the CSO and CMO suggests we are 10-14 weeks away from the "peak" of the epidemic in the UK. But it WILL be back next winter. Companies are going to have to take action which preserves their survival through till 2021 when a vaccine is available. Personally I suspect government intervention will sooner or later be necessary, but we're obviously not there yet.

Anyone who underestimates the challenges we face over the coming months is only deluding themselves. We have to stick together and try to share whatever pain is coming our way.

Well, coincidently, a number of pilots will be without a job following their soon-to-be employer deciding to withdraw their job offer...

Worchester
 

Why do I pick NEXT February?
Well, considering they just closed Norway as I was out fishing today, I would say the hysteria has just begun!
( 600 cases and 1 dead ! )
Anyway
I could be wrong, but no airline , in Europe needs a single extra pilot the next 13 months!!
Easter starts 1 April 2021 and then summer starts with a lot of pent up " travel energy" amongst the survivors. Airlines and folks alike.
As an old Head of Training I happen to know a thing or two about recruitment and providing the Max is back and the Corona is backing off, there is no point in committing to new pilots until well after newyear.
I hope I am wrong, and feel free to remind me if I am,

Stay healthy!
Cpt B

Sounds like Blu has caught the supposed hysteria from Norway! Picking random numbers and dates out of the air does not a sensible analysis make.

Considering there has not been a virus like this for a generation, there is no relevant comparison. Watching interviews with actual professional analysts, they say there is a pick up in holiday bookings for this winter (ie delaying their summer holidays), so I suspect we will see a quick economic pick up in the second half of this year.

I’m going to stick to the professional advice from scientists and economists rather than guess work based on pure speculation.

bex88
Voluntary ‘redundancy’, (I presume that’s what you mean?) comes at a cost to the employer. As those volunteers may not come from the fleets the employer would prefer to shed pilots.

How much of your own T&Cs are you prepared to sacrifice for redundancies to be VR rather than CR? (If your union are even in a position to influence your employer??

I see you are rather senior, and don’t feel under any threat? You have been ‘saved’ more than once by your colleagues. That’s great. You’re well placed to take one for the team.

4468. 100% I am willing to take a part time working option or job share for a fixed term.

I feel under threat. I have seniority within the company and on fleet but not in P1 status.

I can pay my bills with less money. It will not be fun but I will do that so colleagues do not loose everything.

Yes VR costs money but it is something which has been offered in the past. Surly it needs to be a option made available should anyone wish to accept it. Regardless of seniority, now is the time to come together and share the burden.

Alex Cruz’s video message does not sound good at all.

Agreed. I have to say I am feeling pretty vulnerable on the 747, but I resigned myself to it months ago. The minute I heard this was infectious with few or no symptoms, I knew it was already out of China and it was going to be serious on a global scale. People were saying it is just the flu, but I knew it was not. A new virus is always more of a problem than an old one such as the flu, because of the lack of resistance within the population. I suspect the rumours from months ago, of twenty jumbos being offloaded early, is bang on the money.

more likely unpaid leaves, but yes, it's coming. brace for impact

An inevitable outcome , Yes BA makes large amounts of money BUT that’s lots of staff and lots of empty aircraft .
I often think if we didn’t have media we would all be sailing along with out a care , it’s so blown out of proportion!!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....656e7f2e7.jpeg

I’m afraid that attitude is a big part of the problem. It isn’t blown out of proportion, at all.

Google the Spanish flu of 1918, if it’s anything like that then BILLIONS may be infected. The whole ‘meh, more people die of the flu’ is what will kill people because if that’s what you believe then you’re not going to be doing your hit by self isolating, washing hands constantly and being cautious. Society has to beat this collectively, any chinks in the collective and the whole defence is worthless.

I'm not sure about that. I'm a 'meh, more people die of the flu' type (because it's TRUE) but at the same time the majority of people are not going to let their guard down with Covid-19 especially considering the hourly barrage of news updates and statistics.

It would be so wonderful if it turns out that more people end up dying of flu than of Cov19, however without the so called madness going on across the world right now, there is absolutely no way that statement would hold true. Sadly, even with the current action, flu related death figures are highly likely to be dwarfed by the Cov19 related death figures over at least the next two year period. After that, the world will hopefully have developed similar levels of immunity to Cov19 as it has to flu, and the figures may well come a bit closer together. Anyone who thinks all of the economic carnage of the last month or so is simply due to some overblown media coverage of a harmless disease, really needs to pull their head out of the sand.

The language being used in the media is a huge issue. If I hear “LOCKDOWN” one more time!

Most of our home delivery from Sainsburys was marked out of stock so didn’t arrive yesterday. Popped to my local supermarket to buy the missing bits to find scenes akin to an end of the world zombie movie! Absolutely ridiculous.

This is serious for those that are vulnerable ie the elderly and/or those with serious underlying health conditions, but I’m far more concerned about the economic crisis developing. This will be catastrophic for our industry and others. Thousands of people will be made jobless shortly but meanwhile many more people will probably die from normal influenza and falling down their stairs at home. Let alone the roads! I’m not insensitive to those that will be affected by this, which includes members of my own family. But the world needs to stop and have a real think about the ramifications of alarmist coverage.

Harsh as it may sound, the world will keep on spinning once this temporary crisis is overcome and if millions are unemployed the social problems that follow will make the Corona virus outbreak look very insignificant.

And as for daft comparisons to the 1918 Spanish flu.....come off it. The world has moved on significantly since the oxygen and aspirin used a century ago!

23/03/2020
 

Evening all.

Is anybody else here due to start on the 23rd? I haven’t heard a thing from BA yet, growing increasingly worried...

Thanks

Surely you’ve seen the news and therefore unfortunately have your answer? I wouldn’t be expecting to start any time soon. Good luck.

The problem with this view is that it crumbles under the slightest questioning.

I highly doubt that after the first week of the the second world war people were sticking their heads in the sand and laughing it off on the basis that by that point no one had actually been killed yet and therefore bee stings, shark attacks and accidents involving ice cream dispensers had still killed more people, and therefore we’re a bigger threat to life?

More people die of flu than in car crashes in the U.K., I suspect you still wear a seatbelt... And more people die of old age than cancer, I still think it’s worthwhile researching cancer treatments though!

Flu is not COVID, they are totally totally different and one has zero effect on the other one. Apathy is more dangerous than the virus itself.

Not a daft comparison at all. Swine flu, 10 years ago, infected over a billion people. Only reason there wasn’t 50 million dead as with the Spanish flu was luck as it wasn’t a serious disease. You may think that people in the 1900s lived in caves and still worshipped trees but sadly not. They had exactly the same number of ways to cure Spanish flu as we have for COVID. Zero, nada, zilch. Tell me again that it’s a daft comparison.

I'm obviosuly not in any positon to clarify, but the most recent comms I've read suggest that all March start dates are going ahead. Good luck - we'll all need it!

Check your PMs

Just watched the guy who discovered Ebola, and helped identify Covid-19, make that comparison to Spanish flu, you’re right on the ball there, is not daft.

Other news, Will be interesting to see if Bojo will agree to the £7.5bil lifeline to UK airlines that Virgin will request on Monday. Right now I’m feeling very insecure and seriously fearing for my job....

It is fair to say that for most people, this will be just a mild, ranging through to nasty, respiratory infection from which they will recover, with ranging from no long term effects, to life long scarring of their lung tissue. However, given how many people would get it, the small percentage it would kill if left unchecked, would be a very big number. Now the governments of the world could just sit back and let it happen, and watch tens of millions die, or they can cause economic damage but save many many lives. There will always be some who would rather forego the economic pain and let millions of people other than themselves die, but fortunately, the governments of the world, together with their health care and economic advisors, have deemed it better for society that they do something to try and limit the fatalities. Mistakes will I am sure be made, but fortunately in most people’s world, life versus death is more important than employment or money in the bank.

Starting the 23rd
 

Im supposed to be starting on the 23rd as well and as far as I’m aware and from the call I had last week then all is ok for the 23rd....However with the doom and gloom coming from the news I’m getting increasingly worried for the week ahead.

Ok, you asked for it, it's a daft comparison. Luck had nothing to do with it. Years of medical research developing a range of broad spectrum antibiotics to treat the underlying health conditions like pneumonia thus making those infected more resilient to the virus itself was the reason 50 million didn't die.

Protect the elderly, vulnerable and those with underlying health conditions which make them susceptible to Covid at all costs of course. The rest of the world needs to carry on and quite frankly, get a bloody grip.

Back to the thread.....

I feel very sorry for those that have been caught in no mans land and only hope their current airlines allow them to rescind resignations. All I would say is that the news coming out of BA is very very sobering. I've been in 5 years or so and for the first time in my career I'm fearing for my job. Next week will probably reveal wide ranging survival measures. It's not going to be pretty.

Best of luck all.

2W2R

Word on the street, some of our FOs from near here in the Middle East are working their notice on the basis they did have a job offer and start date at BA.

BA cancelled their start dates and put them back in a hold pool. The company here not letting them stay as not required.

Absolutely awful. I feel very sorry for them. The global situation is truly unprecedented and I wonder who will be left standing when this is all over. I'm preparing myself for some major news from my employer and the CC early next week. As some of my colleagues have already said, I'm really hoping we can avoid any pilot job losses and am prepared to take a hit to achieve that if needs be.

Again, best of luck folks. This isn't gonna be pretty.

I would suggest a good way of helping would be if all staff were asked to take one months unpaid leave anytime over the next 8 -12 months, then your company uses this to cut capacity by a quarter or third and hopefully this situation will be gone soon. Once this crap has gone, people will want to get away. SARS lasted 9 months.

Good luck to all

There's perhaps no easy way to say this but the over 60s should consider calling it quits, life, particularly at BA has been good to them. What they have, the next generation of pilots could not even hope for. Besides, I read somewhere flying in your last few years taxes the body as much as it did in the last 20.

CW247.

Why not tell them to roll over and die instead.

BA have just issued an HR-1 redundancy notice for an unspecified number of pilot redundancies.

While at face value, this is perhaps a little alarming, it’s part of a longer process involving negotiations between BA and BALPA. Previous form suggests compulsory redundancies will be avoided but obviously everything else will come to a halt for some time.