Not anymore. The BA sim is now about whether or not they think you should go into the A320 only hold pool or the LH hold pool and it depended on your performance in the sim and total experience levels, but not type rating. This was said to me explicitly during my sim check last summer.

I was told this directly by someone carrying out the interviews so would be surprised if they were lying. How else do they decide to offer some the choice of LH/SH and some SH only?

No I’m not disputing what you’re saying it’s absolutely correct, it’s a recent “change”. My cynical mind is just suspecting that it’s being used as a convenient tool to be able to coerce someone into taking a SH position by making it look as though that candidate has somehow failed to make “the grade” for long haul. The truth is that the BA sim has always been pass/fail with a long haul conversion in mind so have they suddenly dropped the standard?

It’s also a complete nonsense from the POV that, other than your seniority number, there is no further assessment from inside the company to “Long Haul Suitability” once the engagement freeze is over so someone who has five years of SH behind them when doing the BA sim but assessed as “unsuitable for long haul” isn’t really going to be any significantly more or less suitable after another five years. So as I say it’s a convenient tool for the company to get more people onto SH.

LH suitability is your ability to demonstrate effectively that you can operate the sim which in this case is 744 to a high standard.By this I mean close to LPC standard.It used to be 2000hrs but the process has evolved.
The assessor has to ask himself will the candidate be able to cope with maybe just two or three landings a month with extremes of weather possible.If in doubt revert to SH until they have built up enough competency to cope with the aforementioned scenario.

Pretty much as I saw it. In fact in the sim brief the instructor asked what rumours we had heard about the session. To clear it up he said you have to prove you will not be a financial liability to BA and pass the TR and line training without fuss. Secondly, do you have the ability to handle a heavy off the bat (based on virtually no candidate arrives with 747 experience). If you check the LH box your hold pool says hold pool, if you don't it says A320 hold pool (apparently).

I can maybe add a bit to this...I was told by a member of the HR team that I’d had the suitable for LH box ticked but, due to my low total hours (around 600 at the time of the assessment, LH wasn’t an option at this stage.

Did you get a start date at all?

I got A320 starting April. Not typed and in the pool since Sept.

Yes I have a start date now - was swimming for around 7 months in total.

Whilst I am unaware of the criteria that are used to determine if they can shorten a type rating course based on previous experience, those with widebody experience will probably be earmarked for a widebody type from the outset. This would reduce the availability of widebody courses for those without experience and who may be hoping for a course.

Would any recent SH joiners be able to PM me some sample rosters they are working please. Received an offer and weighing up the pros and cons.

How long do you have to decide whether to accept or not?

I can understand your question and it must be hard to weighing up the pro and cons. Before joining BA a while ago now I only worked for airlines were on Roster day you got given a computer generated roster and the only limited control you had on the roster was the ability to place a few requested days off on it every month.

Rosters in BA are completely different to what you probably experienced before. They are a very personal thing since we can put so many preferences into the system. Sharing a junior roster would therefor not be of any use since you are most likely unable to find out what the owner (once the roster is published in BA you become the owner of your roster, it therefor doesn't change anymore and is pretty much written in concrete, on average I had 1 roster change every other year) their rostering preferences are.

For example I'm relatively senior on SH and if you look at my roster you would probably be disgusted, I work pretty much every weekend. For me on the other hand weekends are not important and preventing them is not something I put in my preferences. The same goes for consecutive days off, early/lates, tours/daytrips, destinations, etc., etc.

With regards to SH rosters expect to have limited control on your roster the first year. If you want one weekend off and that is your only preference you probably get it. If you want a weekend off, LIS night stops, lates and only three day tours you will fail until you get around 50% seniority. At the current rate of recruitment getting to 50% seniority should take you about 2-3 years. What I'm trying to say with the previous example is the more senior you get the more picky you can get with your preferences till the point were you are no 1 on the list were you litterly write your own roster.

On LH you get the same, with the difference being that every unfrozen pilot who joined the company before you once they move to your LH fleet will slot in more senior to you. To get to 50% seniority on LH could therefore easily take up to 8-10 years.

Depends on the luck of the draw. Looking at Priam, Some LH fleets will be seeing unprecedented fleet seniority moves in the next 12 months - bottom feeders moving >20% this year.

True, but it will still take 8-10 years before you get to 50% on LH. Most likely you will lose some seniority after you gained some on the LH fleets with lots of SH pilots being un frozen now, we have the 74 fleet about to go into rundown so they will move to other LH fleets and if you join now you are behind a group of around 1500 pilots who joined in the last 5 years.

im scheduled to be at 65-68% in 12 months, with less than 2 1/2 in...

Most guys seem to be picking to go to the newer types at the mo, particularly 350 and 787 (not forgetting -10 expansion) as both fleets are turbo junior on the FO list. There are also a lot who are leaving from the upper end, 12-15 years in, who want to grab command before their pensionable benefits get locked out from the changes. 777X is scheduled in too around when, 22-24, so wouldn’t mind betting A lot of 747 chaps go that way (shiny new jet)

Unusual times, it won’t continue, but for now I’m not complaining.

Jumbo2 - Thanks for the reply, helpful stuff. :ok:

VinRouge, I'm sure I've just missed it but what are the pension changes you mention? Ta

The closure of the NAPS final salary pension scheme a couple of years back, came with a transition period within which FOs could move to the equivalent captain pay scale for pension purposes. Commands must be obtained by the end of 2023 for this to happen. Many will have initially held out hope for a long haul command, but as 2023 draws closer the more junior ex NAPS FOs will likely give more consideration to taking short haul commands in order to lock in the NAPS pension uplift.

Apologies if I’m completely off the ball, but would this apply to a new joiner?

It doesn’t directly, but impacts how quickly you will move up your fleet seniority list if you join Direct Longhaul. Which in turn impacts quality of life.

So final salary pension is dead and gone for new joiners? Sorry I know nothing about the pension scheme!

Final salary pension has been dead and gone for new joiners for well over a decade!

haha I thought as much but saw it mentioned and I had a faint hope! :{

Roughly how many people are in that situation? It could have quite a dramatic effect at pushing out the time for SH command?

I don’t know the numbers, but I’ve heard anecdotally that a fair few of the Long Haul SFOs affected are looking at the type of SH roster they could get if they swapped seats and are deciding to take the pension hit.

Lowest LHR command this year was 3700-ish, which is what, 3 years in? Maybe 4? Gatwick went down to 4000 which is 18 months service. I think if the NAPS people were serious about going to SH those numbers would be higher - but maybe they will be next year.

All rumour & supposition, but that’s what this websites about isn’t it?

Please do not quote me on this but if memory serves me correctly, the figure was approximately 550 NAPS SFOs at the time of the scheme closure. If I had to guess what people are planning, I would say the bottom 100-150 NAPS SFOs will start including short haul commands in their bids for 2021 and 2022.

I know of several more senior non-NAPS SFOs who bid for short haul commands this year because they did not want to be blocked from doing so for the next three years during the predicted NAPS SFO rush.

Yep, "they" exist, I've flown with a couple of quite senior SFOs recently who have told me that they are staying put in the RHS until retirement and also explained the logic behind the decision - funnily in both cases it wasn't SH rosters that was the problem, it was the rosters that they would have moving RHS to LHS on Long haul that was the issue..

That said I have absolutely no idea how many more have the same plan across all the fleets.

If anyone has an upcoming Sim assessment booked and would be interested in pairing up for practice sim then please send me a PM! Cheers.

Hi everyone I am in the middle of the assesments at the moment, Just a random question that I was hoping someone may be able to shed a bit of light on.
I have a few holidays booked with family and friends for later this year that my current company has approved already.If I was to be succesful with the BA assesments
would they honor these holidays at all? I am willing to give up the holidays of course for the chance at the job and the type rating and all that but was just wondering
if there was any chance they would slot the initial training around it and just deduct the holiday days off me as usual. bit of a random one but hope I have explained it well.
thanks

Hmm, I think you might need to lower your expectations of what employment by BA looks like.

Like I said not expecting them to honour it and would gladly drop the holiday to work for them.I only ask as where I live and work currently it is something that happens. thanks for the reply though....

Cruel but fair...:E

Does anyone know if there is a plan, or likelihood, that BA will run the scheme for newly qualified pilots this year?

This is purely my opinion, but I suspect the recruitment plans for this year are gong to reduce significantly once the world realises this Coronavirus is already out of control. So I think that is unlikely MaverickPrime. I am expecting a severe cut in capacity with 747s leaving earlier than currently scheduled.

Imho, yes, and a fair few of them too.

back in the real world where more people die of flu than the Coronavirus I would imagine recruitment won’t alter much if at all.

There, I fixed it for you.

The only given in all this is that retirements will continue at a decent rate. On one hand that might mean recruitment continues throughout the year, OTOH if this gets really nasty and the flying plan takes a big hit that attrition might simply mean those pilots already in BA get to keep their jobs.

As someone who is old enough to have has seen up close how BA responded to the impact of Gulf War 1, GW 2, 9/11 etc I will offer one bit of advice:

If you really want to leave wherever you are currently , and you really want to join BA then now is really really is not the time to finesse a joining date....... grab the first start date that BA put on the table.

Wiggy spot on as usual and has seen it all.
Take first offer and do not ruffle their feathers as they will just ring next person on the list.
’when can you start?’ 8.00am tomorrow is the response,not that hard.
FWIW BA May be shying away from MPL licences due lack of SA and teamwork skill set.