Once accepted do they swim in the hold pool the same as DEP?

Yes they will only go short haul. As far as I am aware, they have a longer training footprint than DEPs, but are significantly cheaper once they are trained up. They will be in a hold pool just the same, but that will not mean they are at the back of the current queue. Each pilot is recruited from the pool according to how their particular training footprint, and destination fleet requires. It is not a straight forward first into the pool, first out.

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Thats interesting to hear. When did they get the offer and the change, any ideas?

Will they go below current swimmers in the hold pool? What’s the case with the l3 tagged cadets, do they slot below current swimmers based on the final assessment dates?

You are engagement frozen for five training years when you start at BA, however this can be reduced to four years for a first command. Unless you are short haul it is very unlikely you will be released from your freeze early. I believe there was a supplementary bid last year due to a shortage of applicants for Gatwick commands and some pilots were released from long haul freezes early. However this is most certainly the exception rather than the rule, and was in part due to the increased flying, which arose from the purchase of Monarch slots. It is unlikely to happen again.

As far as failing a command after returning from long haul. BA are pretty brutal nowadays and my understanding is that you would remain in short haul in the rhs, with the possibility that you could try again when you are no longer cat c (2yrs).

Recruitment is expected to number anything upto 400 next year, however BA recruited huge numbers in 2014/15 and many of these will be unfrozen and will take the majority of the long haul positions. This has not been the case in previous years as recruitment was quieter between 2012-14. My guess is that DEP short haul is more likely going forward.

I think it very unlikely Gatwick commands will go as junior as they have been in the last two years. BA failed to obtain the TC slots and there is very little appetite for any further short haul expansion. With Heathrow commands still up at sub 2800 seniority (approx 10yrs), I would anticipate Gatwick commands returning to around mid 3500 (4-5yrs). This appears to agree with rumours coming out of P&P too.

It is very difficult to commute from Gatwick in the summer with minimum 11 days off. It is
more achievable from Heathrow, but it would seem anyone below about 60% seniority is getting very little control of their initial rosters under JSS and rely heavily on swaps. Perhaps someone who has joined in the last 2 years could confirm better.

An Engagement Freeze is ‘active’ until completion of 5 years of service. However in practice, a 5 year freeze means a bid will not be considered for 4 complete training years. (MoA refers) The training year runs from 1 Jan to 31 Dec. Also bear in mind that if your initial posting is A320 at LGW, any freeze would not prevent you moving from LGW to LHR on the A320 should you wish. It’s a type freeze, not a base freeze.

The freeze situation is a bit anomalous. If you joined on the Airbus in the last 3 years and met the command requirements, you could achieve an LGW command (most junior is c4000 on the MSL). As discussed above, this year due to the Monarch slots there were a large number of LGW commands which led to anyone who bid for one in the main bid getting one, including LH DEPs within their engagement freezes, plus a supplementary bid for Airbus rated pilots. The rule set and pay scales aren’t designed for people getting commands within 5 years of joining mainline as it’s historically not happened. Junior LGW Captains are about the lowest paid A320 skippers in the UK.

I agree with posters above it’s unlikely to happen again, and BA can do what they like with you within the ruleset under the engagement freeze. One of the reasons LGW is so junior is that you realistically have to live within 30-40 min drive of Gatwick due to the fact it’s mainly day trips and fairly random rosters.

Not just many, everybody recruited in 2015 are now unfrozen provided they haven’t taken their command in the meantime. You’ve got the 2016 lot (300+) with valid bids next year too. However, I doubt the veracity of a blanket “most will be going DEP SH” statement. BA will just probably pull out their training capacity joker and shaft all the unfrozen SH P2s in favour of LH DEP once again.

New email received yesterday, still trying to figure out what the manpower demand is for 2020. Once they have the go ahead and a budget they’ll start, until then I guess we’ll keep swimming!

Does anyone have any more info for example; if the training train will leave the station in Q1 2020 still? or has that ship sailed?

Hold Pool update... What do we make out of it?
Nothing before Christmas or 2020 itself?

Hi Ladies and Gents

I was wondering if anyone has heard any recent positive news in the hold pool or are having a similar experience?

Ive been in the pool since the start of March. During my assessment I was told if successful to expect a call very soon as the pool was very low. After a couple of months without hearing anything I contacted them as they said no training was scheduled till the end of summer. Towards the end of July I got a call to expect a start date in Q1 2020 and I would receive that date in September, possibly into October. It’s now end of November and still no date and to be honest the recent emails from them have start to make me wonder whether it will happen at all.

I appreciate all this is subject to change when your in the hold pool, and I’ve heard people were waiting 24 months plus in the pool a couple of years ago. I just feel on the basis of what I have been told from the start it all feels a bit disconcerting. Just wondering if anyone is going through the same?

Anyone moved from an Orange airline to BA on short haul recently could give me an insight please.
feel free to DM

could anyone please send me some examples of their short haul rosters or how they feel lifestyle and working patterns are.

thanks

There’s a lot of info on Shorthaul rosters posted throughout this thread if you search for it.

LGW & LHR are quite different. LGW is seasonal so very busy in summer, very quiet in the winter months. I’ve averaged about 650-700 hours a year at LGW since I joined. Mainly day trips. Seniority increases pretty quickly (assuming recruitment continues).

LHR is the better option for commuting due to the amount of tours. Work is spread more evenly throughout the year. Don’t underestimate the hassle of operating there day in day out.

About 50% of the FO’s I fly with are ex orange. The majority seem happy with the decision but they unanimously agree it’s not the holy grail they’d hoped for/expected.

This sounds promising as I’m waiting for a SH start date. Though last week I received an email saying manpower plan not yet sorted so unable to offer start dates for 2020 at the moment...Anybody else know of any movement?

Hopefully suggests for the rest of us the manpower plan is approaching a publishable form.

Interesting as always to see how close the rumours approach to reality.

doesnt help when you’re pushed 787 manuals on DocuNet by mistake, just to give a bit of false hope then exacerbate the pain of NV when it inevitably comes.

I know people who have been pleasantly surprised to be given 787 command on type courses in January Rex, so perhap P2 will also have gone more junior than expected. The results will be with us soon enough.

Any more good news? :D Keep it coming! Us swimmers will hopefully be rescued soon

Has anyone without a 320 rating been called for a SH start yet? Or should those of us that are not rated expect to swim a little longer?

A320 no call yet

pilots job network fairly accurate for LH.
https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/British_Airways

i think the full full scale is on the Balpa website, airline documents > BA MOA (Salary Annexe). Oh, important point, pension is based upon the 24 point payscale, so your employer contributions go up quicker than salary. There are seperate scales for
LGW and LHR SH as well as LH.

Pay settlement is looking at 11.5% over 3 years; there are other odds and sods thrown in that will give you an extra (minor) boost in salary. Stuff like an extra quid per hour Flight Duty Pay. If it’s signed off of course!!!

True, but just to be clear to new joiners there is no difference until 15years in as an FO or 24years Captain. So I wouldn’t worry about it.

Thanks for that link and help guys!

the link just has PP1 and PP34. If year 1 LH at the current contract is 4300 net, do you know what years 5 and 10 would be as a rough guide?

cheers!

What length of commute is feasible for a junior FO SH LHR?