I think at the moment I'd struggle to recommend BA as a company to work for at all, short haul or long haul. I agree with everything above - morale at rock bottom, scumbag management who couldn't care less, pay cuts and productivity increases all round while they all treat themselves to whopping bonuses. Insult to injury - a pay deal which offers a pay CUT, funded by further increases in productivity. For added hilarity, prior acknowledgement from Klaus that morale was already flagging. It'd be funny if they weren't serious.

Tay Cough has kindly answered your question though and I wouldn't change a word. The only (to emphasise again, ONLY) reason to join BA now is the fact it is a stable and secure long haul airline, arguably the only one in the UK. What scares me here is the speed and extent to which things have deteriorated, aided no doubt by a union which has lived in BA's pocket and which is crumbling and losing support by the day.

Unfortunately I've seen this decline before in a previous airline. Management desperate to shaft us, threshold eventually reached, and a majority strike vote the result. Sadly that unity doesn't exist at BA - we're all doing different jobs (PP24/34, SH/LH, junior/senior, LGW/LHR). It'll get a lot worse before people start to push back here.

years ago, I lamented the fact that people were taking awful contracts just to get into a shiny jet, the result, I thought, would be the reduction of legacy terms. Is this possibly proof of this?

Completely agree. Which is why it is bittersweet seeing the faux militancy from some BA pilots who are on very good contracts with senior LH positions and pensions over 50% of their junior counterparts could only dream of shout loudly for strike action. Ask a senior chap/ess about the conditions for those at the bottom of the pile....."no idea, but I did my time down there” is often the response. And it’s that apathy and myopia which has made our T&Cs so hard to defend from the present management culture.

Its very easy to blame Balpa - about as easy as not having any interest in anything that doesn’t affect you, like BARP, like PP34, like the demise of BA SH as a sustainable career choice.

We won’t go on strike because we have no unity left. I believe in the past we had some. We must have, as I joined at the beginning of the current decade and was impressed at what my predecessors had preserved for my generation of new joiners. I can’t say I’d join today and think the same.

All IMHO, and I’m sure some senior folk will be along to deride such a view of the BA pilot workforce, but I’m afraid many of my colleagues need to wake up and glance beyond the end of their nose. Things can and will get a lot worse if we don’t find some way of pulling together in the same direction - I really hope we are finally at that point.

A fair few of the senior people you’re referring to have children who are new entrants and they’re well aware of the differences between the contracts.

While there may be some vociferous senior people regarding future industrial action, if the junior don’t join in, it’s not going to get any better for them is it?

I would disagree. Most people will go on strike. Most of us are just waiting for the signal from BALPA which could come pretty soon.

Hi craypilot,

Any chance you could give me some info on what stage 2 looks like or how I could prepare for it? I am supposed to attend very soon.

Hi!
I have my stage 1 and 2 assessment the 27th of FEB. I was hoping maybe someone can help me out by telling me some more about the assessments or push me in the right diretion to find more information.
So far i have seen that i need to brush up my math skills and that the group assessment can be anything out of a 100 different scenario's. So perhaps someone could tell me something more about the interview? like what was their focus on? what kind of questions can i expect? or pretty much anyting you like to share.
Would be very much appreciated! please feel free to pm me.
Cheers,

Greyhames

In my not particularly recent (roughly 5 years ago) experience, the information here is accurate. Although, as I understand it, they've reduced the amount of aptitude/PILAPT testing.

Does anyone know how long it takes for them to reply after the Stage 1/2 stage? I did this recently and haven't heard anything... i heard rumour some time ago that a selection team meet each Friday?

I did a stage 2 a few weeks ago and am still in the dark :bored:

Does anyone know if the rejection is an email or a lettter?

I have accepted an offer on to SH, moving from my current employer means that with flying pay and allowances, I'll more than double my salary overnight.

As I'll be bottom of the seniority pile, I am under no illusions that I will take what is given to me and ask no questions. Surely this is the attitude that all new joiners to any job, in any industry should take? Keep your head down and get settled in.

I'll also be commuting which many have said to me will be difficult/frustrating/impossible. Again, I'm aware of the implications of this however the benefits/drawbacks of commuting versus the move and facing the M4/M25 I believe are offset (some may beg to differ here). There are a number of people who commute on SH who I have spoken to and they seem happy with the lifestyle they have.

Would anyone care to shoot me down on the above?

Not until I've left, although I will say that I don't have to commute for my current job. :oh:

My Recommendation? Don't go to BA period; LH or SH they are both equally crappy compared to just about any other semi reputable airline out there. BA at this point is nothing more than a Legacy Low Cost Airline with worse TC's than the actual Low Cost Airlines...

Which are these low cost airlines with better Ts&Cs exactly? I see some merit to the EZY arguement but I can't think of a single other one with comparable terms. Have you ever worked for a LOCO - the headline figures re money tend to be misleading. I'm not saying things couldnt be better at BA but I think its unfair to put off prospective joiners with false information.

Jet2? Time to Command quick with the right experience, basic of £106k as opposed to the £75k at BA as a year 2 or 3 Captain. Jet2 annual around 600-700 hours, BA 850+

BA have fallen behind I'm afraid, and I see recruitment being difficult for them without some changes...

even Ryanair, dare i say it.

20k command upgrade bonus.

125k for 800 hours.

Plus many downsides too

No LoCo (or any other airline for that matter) has 21 days of consecutive SBY periods several times a year, instead they do offer a fixed roster pattern.
Pensions are the same pretty much all over ever since BARP became the norm, but yet LoCo's offer so much more money from day 1 that BA pilots on a 34(!) year payscale will NEVER catch up on career earnings.
So I guess the only thing BA does have in it's favour is Staff Travel; if you still have the energy left to want to take advantage of that after doing 90+ hour months...

Ryanair have been public enemy number 1 on this forum for a decade or more. Many view them as the instigators of the rot in the industry.

It's amazing that in 2019 one has to consider Ryanair as an alternative to a career at BA; that's the real choice those of us outside BA are faced with!

The optimists will say things are finally improving at Ryanair, the pessimists will say that BA dropped the ball. I'm not sure who is right, but it is what it is as they say.

In answer to your first question; All of them in terms of salary, schedule and total hours flown.

In answer to your second; I've left BA for Ryanair, literally doubling my salary and getting my health and family life back in the process.

The rot in the industry was not instigated by any one Company but by the bonus driven Management of all Airlines. And if it hadn't been for the active cooperation of Unions in combination with the silent approval of most senior pilots (who by the way are still showing up to their SIM checks in Aston Martin's) none of this would have come to pass.
BA didn't drop the ball; they ran with it after our senior colleagues did...
The only reason Ryanair is now a better deal than BA is because of concerted strike action by the guys that were here before I came along.

Ignore the negativity on here. You've done tremendously well - congratulations.

And no, I don't work for BA.

For any potential joiners, remember there are thousands of BA pilots that do not post on this forum. That’s not to say they are all 100% happy but despite the fall in T’s & C’s of recent years many still find it to be one of the best jobs in the country. It’s all circumstance dependant. We’ve a lot to fight to maintain and try to get back in some cases, but people above making out that Ryanair of all places is now the better option is (for the vast majority) frankly nonsense.

I’ve only been in a few years and it’s not perfect, but generally I’m happy, I have taken an early command, live close to my home base (Sussex flying club), fly about 650-700 hours a year and spend a lot of time with my young family. I have a huge variety of options available to me should my circumstances change.

Come in with your eyes open and remember you’re joining a seniority airline towards the later end of a recruitment bulge, but don’t base your decision entirely on the unbalanced views above.

I can perfectly understand some people aren't happy but from an objective POV I'm struggling with the previous Aston Martin comment TBH...

I know there are one or two, one defo belongs to a very senior ex-manager - not a common or garden senior pilot, but OTOH there are some pretty mundane cars doing the rounds, also one trainer rocks up on a scooter from the vicinity of T4 and I and lots of other arrive on foot or by bus....my car stays at home and it's a Skoda...

You'd certainly have to be pretty brave to routinely leave an Aston in the Crew Car Park whilst away on a trip....

Some of the best staff travel in the industry and a decent down route lifestyle, particularly long haul. And getting treated, relatively speaking, like a professional/grown up.

To sum up many of the posts above:

BA is a very very long term bet.

If you are under about 35 years old then BA still has a lot to offer.

If you are over about 35 then think long and hard about your motivation to join BA and whether you really will be content to be a long haul FO for the rest of your career. 18-20 years is historically a reasonable estimate of the time to a long haul command, but anyone joining now is in behind a huge recruitment drive. A junior long haul command in your late 50s / early 60s is a daunting prospect, especially given the seniority gradient which has got considerably worse under JSS. If you want a short haul command then you are likely to have a more rewarding career at Easy or elsewhere.