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They choose your suitability for LH/SH depending on how well you do in the Sim. This assumes long haul suitability demonstrated in the sim of course. |
Some would have you believe those who excel go to LH. Those that just meet the standard go to SH to gain experience. 🤔 sounds like a lot of rubbish to me. Ex BMI pilots.......there are no more than 180-200 now. |
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding
(Post 10381300)
Surely there is only one standard in your initial selection sim. And that would be the BA standard. How do they assess you are suitable for long haul in your selection sim? Sounds like nonsense. EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH. |
Originally Posted by clvf88
(Post 10381353)
It might be nonsense, but its true.
EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH. You will require an unfrozen ATPL and I’m guessing 2,000 hours anyway. |
The short answer is are you likely to get through to the line in absolute minimum time, given that the course is compressed to the absolute legal minimum and your 7th landing on type will be during your final check. Training capacity is is bursting at the seams, and BA have some very unusual ways of doing things that take time to get used to if you come from somewhere more sensible. |
Long Haul suitability is your ability to effectively demonstrate the transition from your present type to the 767 sim at this time during the assessment.In short how good are your pure handling skills and whether you can cope with just two or three landings in marginal weather on LH type.Used to be in excess of 2000 hours,but assessment has evolved and is the judgement of the assessor,subjective. Just heard 737 applicant,sim on Monday,777 offered Tuesday. Good luck. |
Originally Posted by Phantom4
(Post 10381743)
Long Haul suitability is your ability to effectively demonstrate the transition from your present type to the 767 sim at this time during the assessment.In short how good are your pure handling skills and whether you can cope with just two or three landings in marginal weather on LH type.Used to be in excess of 2000 hours,but assessment has evolved and is the judgement of the assessor,subjective. Just heard 737 applicant,sim on Monday,777 offered Tuesday. Good luck. After 18yrs of one or two landings a month on long haul it’s safe to say my pure handling skills were better when I was 19 flying Highlands & Islands in an ATP - so I’d now be sent SH A320 to improve I guess!! |
Originally Posted by clvf88
(Post 10381353)
It might be nonsense, but its true.
EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH. The likelihood is once you get put into a LH fleet at BA, you will probably never leave. It is therefore important that LH takes the most experienced DEP's for the wide bodies. So essentially recruitment are saying to anyone who is offered short haul only "You have all the skills but lack the experience" or "You have the experience but the skills need some work" It's up to the applicant to choose which assessment was made! |
Originally Posted by wing man
(Post 10381805)
Anyone know what the current wait time is for people in the hold pool? |
Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds
(Post 10380988)
You could literally be offered anything but wouldn’t expect BA to start you on something and then switch you to the 320 on day one. As I said, never say never.
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Originally Posted by ETOPS
(Post 10378863)
Not certain that is correct. BA have recruited around 250 new hires every year for some time now. There have also been cadet schemes, on and off, as well.
The combination of expansion against retirements, resignations and medical failures has driven a steady flow - gross employment increasing from 3500 heads 5 years ago to around 4100 today. |
Originally Posted by A340Yumyum
(Post 10372969)
Have you been to see a Dr recently? ;-) Anyone joining as a LH DEP is going to be super junior for a very, very long time, unless of course they bid for right seat short haul after a few years! Whether you're towards the bottom of 700 FOs on the 777 or on a small fleet like the 380 (which arguably, though, only has good trips), you're going to stagnate in that position every time a short haul FO with more seniority joins your fleet and leapfrogs you. How long do you think it's going to take to reach 50% on the 777 list as a DEP FO? Maybe a decade? |
Longer. I flew with a Gatwick captain who’d been in 13 years and he still hadn’t got to 50% on the P77L status list by relative seniority. |
However, at c80% and full time on the P777 list I am getting pretty much what I want out of JSS. Those joining the fleet above me tend to replace those leaving to commands or other fleets, and the recruitment rate is such that I am still edging up the list. You don’t need to be 50% on the list to have a pleasant lifestyle by any means. The list is also skewed as the top third are waiting for a long haul command rather than returning to the Airbus. Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down. |
Originally Posted by Jwscud
(Post 10382342)
Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down. |
Originally Posted by VinceR
(Post 10382408)
With 80%, how many weekends off can you expect to get every month ?
|
Ignoring, of course, those lower than that who actually have 1, 2 or 3 weekends off... |
Originally Posted by VOR.DME
(Post 10383055)
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
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Originally Posted by VOR.DME
(Post 10383055)
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.
At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members. With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home... There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up! There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there. Now tell me why BA is so bad? |
Been at 3 Brit airlines based in the London area over the last decade. I've had the majority of my weekends off. A rostering system with only a 50% bias towards seniority with the remaining 50% of the roster being randomly assigned sounds like a better solution, if it can be implemented. I can hear the excuses already!
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Originally Posted by VOR.DME
(Post 10383055)
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.
At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members. With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home... There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up! There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there. Now tell me why BA is so bad? |
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR. This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work. |
Originally Posted by Jwscud
(Post 10383404)
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR. This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work. |
VOR.DME with respect, I think you should leave it there. Yes there are many people here who don’t know anything different but I’m BA, I’ve spent time at Flybe doing six sector days and a lot of the things you are grumbling about and I’ve also worked at Wizz Air. Unless you have experienced pay, CRM, attitudes and intimidation from management and the brutal rostering at Wizz you have no idea how far the bottom of the barrel actually goes. So yes there are worse places, but that’s not to say the grumbles highlighted here aren’t justified, some of them very much are. Does a man who lost his legs on 7/7 not have the right to complain because others died? Extreme example but there’s always someone worse off, we shouldn’t be using that justify an untenable position and a degradation in conditions. |
....and seemingly you’d be surprised at just how many BA pilots have ‘cut their teeth’ elsewhere. Most likely the majority of the pilot workforce. With respect, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. |
I’ve instructed 3,500hrs in Cessnas and Pipers, flown air taxi and air survey in Aztecs, Senecas, Doves and Navajos, did a three year stint on exec jets and then ten years on 737 Charter ops before joining BA. So, I reckon I’ve cut my teeth. Now I fly a lovely new BA 787 from the LHS and I do feel very privileged and lucky. BA is still great compared to most other UK pilot jobs, but could be so much better for comparatively little extra investment and things have definitely gone downhill in the twenty years that I’ve been here. I don’t have a lot to complain about but I would support others in BA who do. |
Originally Posted by VOR.DME
(Post 10384230)
Back in my box I go then!
The reality these days is most of the current BA line pilots have indeed “cut their teeth” in variety of flying jobs with all sorts of operators and organisations prior to joining the company as a DEP in their thirties, forties or even a bit older... |
Hi VOR.DME, No offence taken and none intended! As Wiggy said, most of the guys and gals that I fly with are ex military and/or DEPs from other airlines. Makes for an interesting mix of people (but all fitting the BA selection profile, whatever that is). On the odd occasion that I come across a Cadet, sponsored or self-funded, who joined BA straight out of Oxford or wherever, I can’t help feeling a little sorry for them for missing the variety of experience that I enjoyed. OTOH, if one of my kids had that opportunity, I wouldn’t try to talk them out of it. I had a good position and base in the 737 Charter world and it was a tough decision to join BA at the age of 42. I’m glad I did but I wouldn’t presume to advise others to do the same as it’s now a different time and situation. In any case, it’s not a one-way street as some have recently shown by going back to whence they came. Good luck to all. |
Has anybody who applied in the latest window (ended on the 31st) heard anything back re: their application?
|
Originally Posted by MaydayMaydayMayday
(Post 10382061)
How long do you think it's going to take to reach 50% on the 777 list as a DEP FO? Maybe a decade?
I’ve been in just under 4 years, currently hovering around 75% on the 777. |
Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds
(Post 10387448)
Less at the moment but thats based on the current rate of recruitment continuing. I’ve been in just under 4 years, currently hovering around 75% on the 777. |
Someone joining now still has many people to come in behind them, but they also have the last 4 or 5 years worth of shorthaul DEPs and FPPs who are eagerly awaiting a move to long haul. I also would not be surprised if we start seeing some of the more junior short haul captains decide they would prefer to move RHS long haul due to the decline in their quality of life due to JSS. |
Originally Posted by wiggy
(Post 10387582)
They may have many people coming in behind, who knows? ... That said you are right to point out that all things being equal and agreements staying "as is" they are behind everybody who has joined before them. In my experience guessing where someone will be in terms of fleet seniority in 4-5 years time is making themselves hostage to fortune..
there is more than one short haul captain considering/discussing going back to RHS short haul due JSS..... |
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha
(Post 10387576)
Someone joining now still has many people to come in behind them, but they also have the last 4 or 5 years worth of shorthaul DEPs and FPPs who are eagerly awaiting a move to long haul.
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At what point during the process can you state a preference for SH/LH, and when are you told whether you’ve got LH/SH? Im potentially interested for the future but SH wouldn’t work for me. Is it a case of being willing to jack in the current job, joining (if they’d have me) then just keeping fingers crossed? |
Originally Posted by RexBanner
(Post 10387759)
But who won’t get it because the company now prefers to hire Direct Entry Pilots straight into long haul due cost at the expense of First Officers on the airbus. Direct Entry A350 actually made me want to be sick, it’s about as big a slap to the face of the Airbus P2 community as you could possibly imagine. But that's been going on for the last 30 plus years so hardly new, except the SH fleet wasn't Airbus if that's a consideration. (DEP who joined straight on the most senior fleet at the time) |
red9 are you still frozen?
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Originally Posted by Daily Dalaman Dave
(Post 10387785)
At what point during the process can you state a preference for SH/LH, and when are you told whether you’ve got LH/SH? Im potentially interested for the future but SH wouldn’t work for me. Is it a case of being willing to jack in the current job, joining (if they’d have me) then just keeping fingers crossed? I was in a similar situation as you - I wouldn't have been able to accept SH due to family commitments and the long commute. I took the view that I would just go through the motions and see what I was offered, then make up my mind. I'm not sure either party benefit from this and it would seem sensible for both to state their intentions from the outset; but what do I know. |
Originally Posted by clvf88
(Post 10387855)
I didn't get a chance to express a preference for LH/SH - and nor do I think it would be wise to voice one.
I was in a similar situation as you - I wouldn't have been able to accept SH due to family commitments and the long commute. I took the view that I would just go through the motions and see what I was offered, then make up my mind. I'm not sure either party benefit from this and it would seem sensible for both to state their intentions from the outset; but what do I know. Cheers |
Originally Posted by Capt Ecureuil
(Post 10387811)
But that's been going on for the last 30 plus years so hardly new, except the SH fleet wasn't Airbus if that's a consideration.
(DEP who joined straight on the most senior fleet at the time) I genuinely don’t aim this at and bear no ill will towards people who take a DEP position on the Long Haul fleets, I’d do exactly the same in their position and would have done had it been offered. What I didn’t count on in accepting a SH offer was the majority of recruitment after me being on the long haul fleets and not only slowing down the move to Long Haul but not even seeing the benefit of better rosters in the meantime in a time of mass recruitment. Buyers remorse. |
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