No they're not. I was 100% full time from day one. As was everybody else whom have joined since. To the best of my knowledge. We have more than enough guys volunteering for part time deals.

For reference I flew less than 700 in my one year at easy. Happy to give my entire month by month breakdown if anyone asks for it.

Different people but Management are anything but to cabin crew. I can argue it's probably the same in many airlines. On the flip side I did enjoy the experience I gained from working there. 99% the Capts and Crews were top notch :ok: excellent routes and brand new A/C. Just such a shame the terms and conditions are poor for new entrants with experience. I personally think the NEC for cadets is an improvement to what I started on. Well done to the guys for saying no to Merlin and getting something better. However I don't believe an NEC is appropriate for someone with 3,500+ hours experience in this environment.

Why are they not employing experienced guys on an easy pay scale in line with relative experience and factored hours? Because CTC and easy can make far more money charging the pilot for the cost of type rating and still operate with maximum flexibility and minimum risk that's why. I don't agree with that working practice, especially with guys with experience. It's less than ideal for cadets either but it's better than three years ago.

As a "final thought" it maybe worth considering this.
I have a number of good mates still at easy. Some of those that have recently been employed on permanent contracts or about to but are on a 75% basis. Full time during summer and two weeks on and two weeks off during winter. If most of the current flexi-crew pilots are only being offered 75% now, how confident will you be that 100% contracts will be available in 12-18 months time once you've completed a years service under flexi-screw?

Personally I would be very doubtful of seeing a 100% contract after being on flexi for a year. I would actually be very doubtful to see a permanent contract full stop. Be under no illusions guys. If easy do not require your services after being on a flexi crew contract they will not offer you a permanent position. In fact it was my understanding that you can now only do flexi crew for the maximum of a year under the NEC. If they don't need you after a year and you're not supposed to do it any longer you'll probably get two choices. Either voluntarily carry on as flexi or accept your 30 day notice. Not a risk I would want to take after spending £24k.

Now I admit the chances of being surplus to requirements after a year on flexi maybe slim. But if the airline (or other posters on here) are saying look at the bigger picture and long term. Why can't easy employee and bond you for three years? Like they used to do. If you don't meet the requirements then you'll be let go and as per the bond agreement you'll be asked to pay a portion of it back. I think most experienced pilots would be happy to sign that agreement.

Great place to work yes. Best deal easy could come up with, no.

Sprinkles,

Quite a few of the new entrants have been offered 75% in the last few months. But many have been converted to 100% - the reason was the exact planning for winter hadn't been completed, so we had to offer something (as per the NEC transitional arrangements) and you can't offer 100% and convert it to 75% but you can 75% and then upgrade it.

FO 75% with sector pay pays slightly more than SO.

75% contracts are done on seniority/base, so should not last long. 12 months flexi is a contractual maximum. The reason it is done that way is to allow the company to take liberties - most notably with re-basing and seasonality. It's a crap 12 months.

However, for the third (!) time, all of this is for new entrants, not DEPs. If easyJet think they can get away with offering the NEC to DEPs and it is too low for you, then just politely decline. I would.

Mac72,

I appreciate the frustration you must be feeling still working as a FI and unable to get in, even with that shiny A320 rating. I imagine you may well have heard from some of the pilots who have been "shown the door overnight for no good reason". EcamSurprise has it right though - we have never chucked someone out for no good reason - it's simply a waste of money and you know we don't do that. Ones that have been hoofed out have been for stuff that you would expect to be hoofed out for. Watching a movie in the cruise - in line training. Doing airport standby from home. Reading a magazine during SEP training and stating to the SEP trainer "this is not for me, I'm a pilot". Saying to the Capt during a pre-flight brief when looking up from texting "I don't give a sh!t". The performance issues are nearly all landing ones (lots of TOGA10 take overs, or damaged aircraft). As EcamSurprise says, none of these guys are going to tell you that they got chucked out for being a tit or because they can't fly - they are bound to describe the event as "for no reason". And yes, I am (slightly indirectly) involved.

PS - we did have a group that were taken on for a summer only and who were quite upset when their contract ended. But it was all explained before they signed, it's just they thought eJ would change their minds. It could have been those you were talking to, but it's unlikely given that most came back a few months later.

Hi, does anyone know how many swimmers are currently in the Talent Pool awaiting the offer of a contract?

Arctic Monkey - you said, AdM

"If Easy was offering a permanent contract as you so profusely testify then any company worth it's salt would put their employees on a permanent contract from day ONE and have it written into the contract that continuous employment is based on a 12 month probation. The whole idea of a "12 month" probation which then leads to a permanent contract is completely unnecessary and is nonsense. We all know why they are offering all these gradings - 12 month probation - 2 month SO - 12 month FO etc etc etc is purely to keep the cost down, nothing more, nothing less; that is their motive and you know it."

First of all, if you consider easyJet not a 'decent company worth its salt', you should not be thinking of joining us. Go to another company that is worth its salt and be happy there. Secondly, I disagree about the 12 month probation being too long - in reality there will be a handful of people who are not taken on, and there is no reason why everyone should not be. All you have to do is not be a dork and be competent at your job - it is really not that difficult. You will find the easyJet training system as benign and supportive as any you will come across in the industry. Finally, you are absolutely right - easyJet's intention is to keep down their costs - some would say that is good management. There is not a airline in the world looking to pay more than they have to just because they could. We are in a viciously competitive market with companies like Norwegian, Vueling and Ryanair breathing down our necks. In addition the legacy carriers are beginning to sort themselves out at last and start attacking their cost base. Therefore we need to keep a competitive advantage. That means we pay a little when you join and you work up from there, in what is essentially a seniority system in all but name. Love easyJet or hate them, they are an incredibly successful company who have made an increasing profit in some of the harshest economic conditions every single year of their existence - this year will be no exception. They offer a job security that is second to none. You will fly brand new aircraft to a range of destinations few other airlines can dream of. The vast majority of people you will fly with are great people. There are promotion opportunities that simply do not exist elsewhere. I am not trying to say that black is white, but I am trying to be realistic. Th is is not a perfect job , but it is a very good one, as many others are saying - I personally believe it is one of the top jobs in the airline industry other than working for a national carrier. Good luck to you if you can get that - but for everyone else this is as good as it gets.

I understand that many of you here think you are being robbed - that is fine, but do not come and work here. No one is going to enjoy your professional life for you - if you come here on Day One believing you are working for a rubbish company then that is what it will be. I go to work every day to enjoy myself and invariably do. Find the perfect company for you and go for it. This is supply and demand - if you are offered a job with us and turn it down, there are countless others who would step into your place and do it for even less than you are being offered. It is a harsh fact of life, but utterly true. I truly wish you all well in the decisions you have to take - my strong advice is to listen to some of the people out there who have been where you are and are glad they joined.

Adm - I think the reason some people have accused you of being arrogant on here (and I am not one of those people) is that a lot of your posts sound like you may think that easyJet are doing us a favour by offering us a job.

If I were a cadet looking for my first flying job, I may well agree with you. However I am a professional pilot with over 7000hrs flying experience. Most of the guys I met during the recruitment process had lots of similar experience. I can tell you without exaggerating that I had an excellent assessment day & sim session.

To expect a professional pilot with years of experience to give up a secure and well paid job, hand over £24k for a type rating, not pay them for 2 months whilst their training and paying for their own accommodation (the whole thing would cost me around £35 - £40k) for a job worth an unknown amount in the first year and no guarantees of a second year simply isn't gonna cut the mustard.

I was very much looking forward to a career in easyJet. However, loosing £40k in cash and loss of earnings even before I have started work and then sweating on whether there will be a job at the end of year one is not for me. It would take me around 5 - 7 years to recover this "investment" if everything went according to plan and that assumes theres no downturn in the meantime. I suspect that the only people you'll get taking this scheme are those who hate their jobs and the desperate (no disrespect intended).

Incidentally since applying to easyJet, I have had two more job offers and have two more interviews lined up. None of these prospective employers have asked me to pay for a type rating or go unpaid for a few months, let alone take a temporary contract paying me by the hour, with no minimum guarantee. They are investing in me and I am committing to them. One thing people should not forget is that companies are run by people - a lot of these people have been in our shoes in the past.

As I have said before, theres lots of movement in our industry. Hopefully there will be lots more movement and conditions will improve as airlines have to start treating people fairly to attract them.

It would be financial suicide to accept a job with easyJet so they are doing me no favours whatsoever. If anything, they've made the decision quite easy for me. I suspect the majority of professional pilots who have been offered the same deal will agree and you will be left employing the bottom of the barrel, all worrying about how much debt their in.

Of course, safety is our number one priority.

Nice idea but it didn't work.

Going back through the mists of time, airlines used to provide type ratings to selected candidates on the basis of need and mutual trust. Fast forward to two decades ago, and bonds became the norm, whereby you signed a contract agreeing to repay the employers training costs (usually on a sliding scale) if you left their employment within a certain time period. The problem was, (and if you can search back far enough through these very same forums you will find ample evidence,) that many people who decided to breach the contracts felt they could do so with impunity, and whether that proved true or not, it placed the time and costs of recovery firmly in the employers court.

The advent of the Lo-Co's simply accelerated the concept that "your training costs are your responsibility." You carry the responsibility and the risk. The airline can assume you will be just as honourable and committed, but just in case you aren't, you will be picking up a significant share of the tab.

Some companies do still assume risk for the bond, but it doesn't sit well in the ryanisation concept of low cost strategy.

CaptainT, why should those equally qualified but less fortunate than you be dismissed as the bottom of the barrel? Maybe their situation is such that accepting the poor deal at easy with its inherent risks is actually better than their present position. Just because you can't accept it doesn't mean you need to denigrate those that do.

Not my intention easy. I'm not sure taking a temporary contract (for this most definitely is a temporary 12 month contract with CTC) on a paid per hour basis could be any better than a permanent contract even with a really poor outfit and thats why I think people must be pretty desperate to accept these terms.

My own personal opinion is this deal sucks and you'll lose lots of good potential easy Captains who will have little choice but to decline this offer. Seems strange that easy have gone to all this trouble to recruit those who are so desperate as to take such a massive risk with their families future financial security.

Good luck to all whatever you choose.

Safety is our no 1 priority.

Unless it costs money.

Jet 2 currently recruiting experienced pilots. And doing it 'properly' from what I can see.

Who's the safest Loco in the land? Looks like Jet2 from here.

Just to be devil's advocate for a moment - that doesn't hold water. Years ago, long before the low-cost model of pilot recruitment was dreamt up, there were plenty of accidents and incidents caused by so-called experienced pilots. I'm not in anyway defending or supporting the present method of recruitment for airlines such as easyJet but I feel I do have to point out an obvious non-sequitur.

I've been involved in training for long enough to know that there is not necessarily a correlation between hours in the log-book and a pilot's competence. Over the years I have been a TC at easyJet I have observed pilots who do not have the skill or knowledge, technical or non-technical, that their hours would suggest they ought to possess. Let me assure all here that easyJet pilots who fall short of the expected standard are helped to improve where needed and that continuing poor performance is not accepted. The training department at easyJet is recognised to be industry-leading.

HundredPercentPlease
 

"Lots of toga10 takeovers and damaged aircraft"

What?

Surely this is exactly the reason why you want guys who know what they are doing in your flight decks at easyJet?

I'm at a loss to understand why a company would tolerate "lots" of the above. It is a blatant failing of the recruitment model, training standards and the quality and safety system as a whole.

The group SMS would soon enough demand a root and branch review of such occurrences if they happened "lots", as they can't be adequately described as low enough risk to the tolerable to any AOC holder.

Also, who is to say the guy who doesn't "give a :mad:", or watches. Movie in the cruise, is the same one who can't land an aircraft?

I'd suggest that your post is a fabrication, in order to suit your ends of defending the indefensible.

Facts, not fiction - despite this being a rumour network, I really can't believe what you just wrote.

Alexander de Meerkat
 

AdM,

I only have one series of questions for you:

Was your probation period one of 12 months duration?

Or were you somehow different due to the fact that "the world was different then", or because your infinite previous experience was somehow more valuable than many of the CURRENT AND TYPE RATED EXPERIENCED PILOTS currently applying to easyJet?

In fact, were you type rated when you joined easyJet? Or was it possible that "because the world was different then", you were trained and bonded at easyjet?

When you joined easyJet, was the company not competing in the same viciously competitive market that it does now? Arguably the market wasn't so well developed, but easyJet was smaller then and less profitable than now. Hence more prone to shocks than today, with its vast profits, immense cash flows and hugely cash generative ancillary arrangements.

I would say easyJet is better placed than it ever has been to dominate the market it is in - certainly far more able of doing so than when you joined.

Don't mistake competition in business for being the red light to abuse your professional brethren.

I'm sure you're a great trainer, captain and all round good egg. But, respectfully, you need to take off your blinkers and have a look at the reality outside of your mindset.

I'm guessing AdM is a member of the training team, and no doubt one of those who campaigned management to get rid of flexicrew. Maybe feels a little put out that the very chaps / ladies he sought to help seem so "ungrateful" for his efforts?

AdM - you have to see what an utterly rubbish offer this is. I can't think of anyone who would give up permanent employment and a place on a seniority list for this despite the fact that easy does look like a great place to work once you've got your feet under the table. This may very well be better than the awful flexicrew, but "better" does not necessarily mean "good".

(I am disinterested - I neither work for, nor seek to work for easy).

De Fummo I take offence (on behalf of all Flybe/ex Flybe guys in particular) at the notion that the people likely to take the job are people who are not good enough to find something better. Which jobs exactly do you propose we should take instead bearing in mind there is the barest trickle of pilot recruitment right now and all of that is generally for rated guys?

Answer the question.

i.e. Name the plethora of airlines in the UK taking applications for non rated experienced pilots

It's a very good point Rex, your choices are limited in the UK. I have had to find work freelancing overseas for the last few years. Desperation is a big driver when you have a family to support. I got to the point where I'd decided to quit flying altogether and start down a different path when I found an employer willing to pay for a very expensive rating for a 3 year bond and I'm now based in the UK. There are jobs out there but you need to search very hard and use your contacts. But please don't devalue yourself and your profession by taking these crap terms from easy.

Alexander de Meerkat

Um, answer the question in hand please rather than give the usual nonsensical politician's answer. Let me remind you what I said:

Where did I say that the 12 month probationary period is too long? What I said was that it was completely unnecessary to offer a "flexi style" 12 month probationary contract. Any company worth it's salt would place their "employees" on a permanent contract from day one and include the 12 month probation as part of this contract just like 99.99% of other businesses do.

You're right about keeping costs down, and to that end you know and I know that is the reason these contracts are being offered, it's nothing to do with probation, nothing to do with weeding out the "rubbish", it is purely and simply to do with getting something for nothing, but do you know what? I don't actually blame easyjet, I blame the people who take the contracts. These contracts solely exist purely because people are willing to accept it, you can dress it up or down as much as you like, but that is why they exist. Easyjet are offering this contract because you know and I know that they can and will "not offer" a permanent contract at the end of the 12 months if it doesn't suit them, they hold every ace in the pack. If things change and the market changes then they can just pull the plug as and when they see fit and they can walk away with no employer responsibilities whatsoever. You know this is the real reason, and I know this is the real reason but unfortunately the band of hypnotics will continue to march on until there are no T&Cs left in this industry, driven down by the very people who will climb over everyone and everything just to sit in the rhs of that shiny new jet you allude to.
Unfortunately for me I am taking your advice. I am not accepting the contract. You will have to sell easyjet to me better than telling me I'll be sat in a new jet; sorry but it's just an aeroplane. You'll have to do better than tell me I'll fly to lots of destinations unrivaled by most other airlines; sorry but it's just a runway, they are all the same. Unfortunately I am the wrong side of 40 to be worrying about shiny jets and shiny runways, but herein lies the problem, there are many, many people from the UK and across Europe who see this as a catch. Good luck to them, and good luck to yourself and easyjet.

This is just another reminder of how the aviation market has changed, and whereas once RHS A320 would have led to reasonably good T&Cs that it is a distant memory.

The broad message seems to be try and become LHS and life's rosy, for now.

Is it a disgrace? No, it's all part of the European labour market and the original design aims of Airbus - not that I saw this coming!

Permanent NEC LGW based :)

Permanent First Officer on salary or starting on an hourly rate? You being paid by easy or CTC?