Latest I have heard is all cadets who were offered 75% NEC are now being made 100% due to DEP's turning the job down so there is an upside to every situation....

Mixchafoolyarich - as far as I can see, the nearest you have been to easyJet is buying a sandwich on one of our flights to Malaga. I have probably worked at easyJet longer than you have been a pilot. Given our relative positions in the organisation I will let readers here decide who to listen to. As you cannot be bothered reading past posts from me, just shut your computer down and make yourself a coffee. For everyone else with a brain in their head, may I suggest you read post no 969 which appears on p49 on my computer. That lays down the terms and conditions of the contract which you will be offered. As many others have said, you do not have to accept it. Please do not say that no one told you.

I am very sympathetic to those who have been turned down or never got an interview. The hard facts are that there are 15 good applicants for every job at easyJet. Inevitably there will be some great people turned away. My genuine sympathy lies with those who have been disappointed.

Phensocks is right. Uptake from experienced direct entry pilots has been poor in some instances, leaving easyJet short so the part time contracts have been changed to full time...

I am sorry but this idea of a 12 months "probation" is simply wrong. After successful completion of the assessment I was offered a "job". The contract was with PARC and mentioned absolutely nothing about this mythical probation period nor did it say anything about a full time position after 1 year. It is simply a 3 year Flexi contact, exactly the same as people have been signing for the last 5 years. Obviously people on this Forum know much more than me but I can only talk about my own experience and I was 100% defiantly not offered a permeant position.

Obviously I turned it down! good luck to everyone else.

Best line in your post fella was telling me to calm down-you are prob correct in that but I'm afraid I'm a little passionate and disappointed in the way my industry has been allowed to disintegrate from a profession into this mess.

The 'jumped up' people will know who they are as they certainly haven't been shy on this forum of boasting about their fantastic LHS package. If you are feeling got at by me calling certain people 'jumped up' then maybe you feel partly responsible but I'm not saying you are; my intention is not to upset anyone-just highlight a few facts.The comment is clearly directed at one distinct set of people who see fit to boast when at the same time the guy sitting next to them will be on 30 days notice and earning £42/hour. The daily newspapers would find that intersting! Any permanent employment is better than the potential to earn £42/£60 an hour on a contract they will potentially never be permanently employed on. If this isn't obvious to you, ask yourself the question which contract you would rather have?

The facts:
It's not the type of flexi deal you can be self employed on!

ADM is not correct. Its not the way the world is. There is more than one other airline out there at the moment who won't make you pay for your training and won't put you on a zero hour contract.

Your point about finance house internships? Great-except internships rarely aim to attract experienced professionals! Normally new graduates.

You are correct that people will have to suck it up short term to benefit long term. Problem being its such an insecure and poorly paid contract that I can't imagine anyone would be able to leave a perm job to go to easy.

What you need to realise if you are going to defend the current recruitment campaign is that there has been no improvement or any sign of a NEC deal to new recruits; maybe to existing cadets?! Easy have you all hoodwinked! The may have promised the workforce and BALPA that changes will be made but actually it's still just Flexi being offered in the UK.

Supply and demand-simple problem to solve but not when it comes to employing a safety critical member of a team.

Phensocks-I absolutely turned it down!

You don't read newspapers very often do you?

Your average reader would view £42 per hour as £1500 per week! I can't see that many builders on their tea breaks, or office workers on the crowded train commute to work, or retirees worried that immigrants are getting more in benefits than they get in pension, are really going to express outrageous indignation or a call to arms at a wage of only £42 per hour!

It is a market. Supply and demand set the price. If you don't like the price find a better market, or hang on to your product or service until the market maybe moves in your favour.

Think of it as seniority, I know the initial contract may not be great, but do your time, and you will be sitting comfortably after a few years.

Thanks EpsilonVaz, you've just said in one sentence what I just typed half a page saying!:D

To those that have turned it down, I understand your reasons, best of luck whatever path you take.

Quite so. 'Twas ever thus. When started in an airline 24 years ago it was on a reduced salary. Fortunately I had other ways of making up the shortfall. Four years later I was an SFO five years after that a captain. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

It isn't avoiding the point at all.

Supply and demand sets the market price. You can manipulate and distort the market, but invariably water finds its own level eventually. If you think "Incumbents" or "I'm all right Jack" or "supply and demand" captains, are living in some sort of bubble, immune to the realities of the market, then you are deluding yourself. Few Captains or long experienced F/O's haven't seen their own terms and conditions significantly denuded over the last decade.

Gone are the Final salary pensions. Gone are many of the insurances, benefits and perks that used to be a regular feature. Gone is the idea of a comfy retirement at 55. Your "comfy captains" have had the opportunity to extend (in many cases) their working lives by up to 10 years, to in part help compensate for some of the reductions evident in their own terms and conditions.

When lo-cost carriers ascended over the last 15 years and in the process stripped out input costs wherever they could find them, did you think that wasn't going to involve wages, benefits and perks?

Perhaps they are, and perhaps they will. If so you can look forward to that road sign to your own future, which will arrive soon enough! However before you get too smug take a look over at the wannabes forum. There are hoards of 250 hour CPL holders who are clamouring for the floor sweepings. They would regard this type of work as all their birthdays rolled into one.

So at the top you have your experienced pilots who can sell their newly granted time extensions to compensate for their losses. At the bottom you have the gates bulging with wannabes desperate for their dream. That is a lot of oversupply and not a lot of unsatisfied demand.

How much are your services worth? I don't know! What is the market price in the UK, in the Middle East, in China?

If my sources are correct and I believe the are, ref experienced recruitment "it is not over until the fat lady sings". Easyjet have chanced their arm and it hasn't worked. But beware of getting too vocal on social media, it is not anonymous and may backfire on those who have been overtly anti.

Oh dear ADM! Seems I've hit a raw nerve. Well I'm going to call it a day here as I genuinely don't want to engage in a public spat with a random I've never met. Whatever cheek you choose to reply with, crack on as I won't be engaging further. 4 or 5 posts on this forum have wasted enough of my time. I'm glad to see that you have managed 660 and therefore don't have anything else to do with your sorry life. For the record, I don't like your sandwiches any more than I like your flexi contracts and I don't holiday in Malaga. If you joined Easyjet in the very beginning, then you may well have more experience as a pilot than me. You certainly have a good deal more arrogance than I do.

Let's see if I can make this point once again and maybe you will get it. Tricky for me without a brain in my head but I will try.

I have an issue with the pathetic offers coming out of Easyjet at the moment and I also have an issue with people defending them. That is all.

Here is what I have to offer to the forum. I have and know several people who have been through the recent recruitment process.

I and several others I met throughout the process were offered a flexi only deal which brings with it the chance to maybe after 12 months be offered a perm position. There is no NEC on offer to anyone I know. What is on offer is garbage but defend it as you wish, your choice.

This is the only point I am really making. An informed bit of feedback from someone who has been through selection. Even if you have been involved with NEC negotiation or BALPA work with Easyjet, you don't have anymore new info than I do!

My veiwpoint is based on fact as a recent candidate. The info should serve as help to anyone else out there unsure of what is on offer!
Any basis for your post ADM or is it just good old rumour?!

I don't think it's necessary for anybody to have an "issue" with what easyJet are offering. You obviously made the right decision in turning easyJet down. :hmm:

Just to add a bit of clarity - in my assessment we were told that both permanent contracts & flexi-contracts were being offered (I have yet to meet or speak with ANYONE who has been offered a permanent contract - including a 737 Captain with 7000 hrs).

The flexi contracts on offer were paid per hour and there were no guaranteed minimum hours. We were also told, if on a flexi-contract, that we would be working for CTC and only after 12 months on an hourly contract would we be considered for employment by easyJet - again there were no guarantees. These are facts from someone who has attended the assessments. I know of several other people who also attended and they were told the same. If you look through these threads, you will actually find posts from people who have been offered a flexi-contract after being contacted by CTC.

With regards to this business about "market rates" & what is fair or not, I have to strongly disagree with lots of the comments on this board.

I have worked for almost 30 years and during that time I have NEVER been offered "what a company thought they could get away with". Every company I have ever worked for had a salary structure. Sometimes people had increments for length of service and experience levels. Basic salaries & terms however have always been the same for EVERYONE. Apart from the ethical side of things, finding out that the guy sat next to you (who may be better or worse at their job than you) is being paid more than you to do the same job is very destructive in a company. It is one of the quickest ways to de-motivate an entire workforce.

It is a sorry state of affairs that people are willing to accept that this is just the way it works. I can assure you it is not in most businesses. Zero hours contract themselves are unethical, destructive and undermine the strong commitment that companies and employees make to each other when offering & accepting employment. That's why the government will eventually outlaw them.

Zero hours contracts are only attractive to companies who can see as far as next weeks profit margin and can't see that their workforce feel under-valued and have been cheated by those in charge. Sticking a carrot in front of your nose saying you could earn £105K in five years doesn't sweeten the sickening taste in your throat at being offered the same contract as a temporary worker.

I wonder how many easyJet captains would be happy if tomorrow you were sent a letter saying you were being transferred onto a zero hours contract? I suspect none and quite rightly so. You should be valued & paid according to your professionalism and not what the company thinks it can get away with.

With regards interns & apprenticeships, it is understandable that when employing cadets with little experience that a reduced salary should be offered as they are essentially completing an apprenticeship. Please remember however, the guys applying for these direct entry positions are not teenagers, they are grown professionals with mortgages & families to feed.

Some of my friends who have been offered a flexi-contract simply cannot afford to accept the deal regardless of what they could earn in five years. Don't forget, they also have to stump up £20k for the type rating in return for an unknown salary during year 1, without the guarantee of a salary in year 2.

To have spent lots of time & money getting to a stage where you are offered a job you simply cannot afford to accept is absolutely sickening.

Its seems as is easyJet are saying "you may be good enough to fly our planes but your not that good that we have to pay you a salary you can afford to live on" or "you've passed the application stage, online assessments, interviews, group exercises, technical exams and a simulator assessment - now give us £20k and in return we can guarantee absolutely nothing - cos we think you're that desperate to earn £105k a year in five years, that we can get away we it".

If people on here don't get that, then the human race has fallen even further into the abyss than I had thought.

You speak of it as you're being asked to jump into some unknown abyss. Many people have done the flexi route, the rostering isn't done separately, it would be fairly straight forward to figure out the minimum amount of hours you'd do over two years.

Yes I realise the contract isn't great, but with many airlines, when you join, you start at the bottom. As much as some of you are trying not to see it, there IS a contract structure within easyJet. You can't expect to be catapulted infront of many already here. This isn't Ryanair.

On the bright side, I'm glad that I won't have to sit next to some of you. Also, Mixchafoolayrich, you'd eat your hat if you know who and what kind of person ADM was. :oh:

Very well put Captthunder. Very clear and concise info about what is actually going on here!

Epsilon-no I would not eat my hat! I've learned many things in this life and one thing I do know is that the truth always seems to come out. My points are 100% true and based on facts; added to that my opinion of people who stand by and support this type of contract. You can't sit on the fence throughout your life if you want but sometimes people have to speak up and tell it like it is. ADM has lowered the tone and just replied with cheeky comments. If either of you want to message me further, do it privately and lets try and keep the forum on track.

AdM

You do need to verify your facts I suspect. Maybe that's what you are being told by the company/union. It is most definitely not the case.

Re your last post. You aren't talking to people who were turned down/never got an interview. You are talking to people here who were offered the job. I say Job in the loosest term possible. We were all from what I can see told to call CTC after the lady from Easyjet told us we were 'successful'. I thought this was strange when I applied for a job with easyjet which specifically asked for experienced pilots.

On calling CTC I was told the 'deal'. As outlined previously. One small point though, I was told £20k + VAT so it's 24k. Plus zero pay whilst training, pay for my own accomodation and board whilst training, pay my own uniform. To then fly for a year on an hourly rate. AS A CTC PILOT. NOT ONCE SINCE THEN DID EASYJET GET IN TOUCH.

After the year there is the possibility of joining on a permanent contract. That is what they said. Be in denial all you like but that's whats on the table. Be it for 10k hour guys on bigger stuff than easy flies, or 6k hour guys like myself, down to cadets.

You may pat yourselves on the back for what you think you saved us from. But you may as well not have bothered.

As for the argument that we will earn £x in the LHS. Rubbish. Easy are showing their hand in what the future holds in Lisbon. Enjoy. And even if they did by some miracle pay current rates. It will take years to earn back the difference. Not to mention the basivc is actually on the low side anyway, just sector pay and bonuses which make it up.

Mix,

I'm sorry to hear you are so upset about they way you have been treated by easyJet. Despite what you think, I can assure you easyJet is an excellent company to work for. Those who jump through the frustrating hoops in the first couple of years are subsequently well rewarded... and not just financially.

I walked away from a final salary pension, a 320/330 mixed fleet dream(my arse), a LHR base and decent seniority. I took a sizeable drop in salary and didn't have a clue where I was going to be based until 4 weeks before joining. 3 years later I got my command and have never looked back. I won't bore you with the financial aspect of my package but, suffice to say, I've no complaints in that respect.

True, I didn't have to entertain any zero hours( it's just a name, no one flies zero hours) contract and I didn't have to pay for a type rating as I had lots of Airbus hours. However, I still think it is an excellent airline to join compared to any other currently recruiting and for that reason, it is worth accepting the Flexi deal with a view to subsequently getting a "proper" contract.

Of course, not everyone will accept the offer... that is their prerogative. Who cares if some middle aged experienced pilot turns down the offer? Absolutely no one. Next candidate please.....

I've said it before, but I don't think thats what you mean. I think you mean, "The T&C's at EZY are good once you get in the left hand seat."

Precious few other contributors to this thread, who aren't in the LHS, are saying the same....

In case you don't, for the sake of the contributors to this thread who have been on the end of the derisory offers from EZY, tell us why, despite this type of mercenary recruiting, they should aspire to work for such a Company?

Are you saying that, once in the Company, everything changes? What makes a good Company is how they deal with the non-contractual issues? A Company isn't an excellent Company just because they have good T&C's.

How are EZY "excellent", because the way they handle their recruitment is enough to crush any idea they are excellent....looking from the outside in?

As a UK Ezy SFO, I can confirm that the RHS is a pretty nice place to be once you've "jumped through the hoops".

I'm sorry but you just won't get the world given to you straight away in easy. It's just the way it is. The reason I bother continuously replying to these posts is that 1. I'm on days off and crew night in Crawley was pretty dead, girlfriend decided that she would rather watch Masterchef Australia and 2. It's relatively a really short period of time that you will be on a not so great contract before you will have a nice job with a good company.

If you want to work in the UK and don't work for BA, or want to work in France and don't work for AF, you'd be insane to turn the offer down.