I agree with de fumo, it's easy to get desperate, vulnerable pilots who will do anything for a job and bring their train wreck life to EZY. Colgan Airlines, did it and look where it got them.

As for the happy EZY skippers, well I would be too if I was on a six figure salary, stable job, fixed roster, UK base I wanted and all the lovely things that are not on offer in this contract. EZY are trying to screw you at your point of entry into the company and will do the same in the future. The next big assault will be on Captain pay and that will be when the next "bump" in the industry happens. If I was joining EZY now, I would never expect the current Captain deal.

As for how to negotiate a fair deal for new joiners? Well, how about safety? Do you really want to recruit experienced pilots who are being stung for a large lump sum and then paid badly and given zero security? Do you think these guys will be well rested, not turn up sick and speak up regarding safety concerns? What would the financial impact of a Colgan style crash be on EZY? What, the new joiner may earn in 5-10 years is irrelevant, if a large number of employees are marginalized and put into a crisis by deals like this.

I was hoping that this recruitment drive would see a return to the old TRSS scheme which was neither a financial giveaway for the company nor an exploitative deal for the new joiner.

FWF
Now I know what you expect as a new joiner to a company I will try to find a suitable employer. To summarise:
Funded TR
6 figure salary
Good pension
Generous bonus scheme payable in a mixture of cash and shares
UK base of your choice
Fixed pattern roster
You want all that now.
And you have to offer some experience on non Airbus type. Your training risk is unquantifiable. Your previous training, character, aptitude, sickness, attitude to work and ability to adopt the company culture all unquantifiable.
No problem I will get back to you with a suitable employer ASAP. Just leave it with me.

Lord
I'm not extolling the virtues of this offer. What I'm trying to say is once in and on permanent contracts the conditions are OK and the renumeration is reasonable. Most of us didn't start on good contracts. I struggled for 5 years on poor pay and long hours, and later had to move from the LHS to the RHS with the corresponding drop in salary to move to where I wanted to be. That was my choice and that may be what some have to consider now and it is not an easy decision especially if you have a family.

FWF
I'm not saying this is perfect, I'm not saying this is even good and sure enough there are other offers that could have been made. However this is the hand that has been dealt and the vacancies will be filled. Moaning about it is, in my opinion, not going to improve the offer. For those then who are offered the position there may be a dilemma. What is also true is that in part this offer to rated or experienced pilots has come about by a push from those inside so don't keep harping on to us about supporting fellow pilots.

De fumo
easy will get the pilots who feel they can cope with the situation and it is an insult to them for you to assume they will only be the ones with low or questionable experience. The sad situation is that we will undoubtably miss out on some very good candidates who for all sorts of reasons cannot accept it, but that is life.

As has been said before if easy don't get sufficient candidates they will just go back to only recruiting direct from the schools. I hope for those of you who don't accept the offer there are no regrets in a few years.

Either way I'm not pushing this offer, I'm just pleased for the sake of pilots who have chosen a different route into the airlines that easy are now considering employing from a wider pilot base.

A lot of ifs buts and maybes here folks. If EZY don't move the goalposts you may get these big salaries if you get a command in a decent timeframe. Given that the biggest shareholder is lobbying for a slowdown in expansion and for fleet replacement instead where will the commands come from? Oh thats right, from the people leaving as fast as they can for BA/Emirates/Virgin/Monarch. Met an old friend who flies a biz jet having left EZY a while back. Loves it, and earns more.

Home every night. Yep, but at what time, 0200, 0300? Or if on earlies leave the house at 0400? Not exactly high quality home time.

Don't be mistaken. I like EZY and they have been a tremendous success story. But a balanced argument must be heard, especially for those who are in turmoil about spending in the area of £26k all in, up front, cash in return for a rubbish starting salary, no permanent contract and no doubt a move to LGW.

John Smith. Have you in fact stopped to wonder why the European bases are on a much better deal than the UK? I'd be annoyed if I were a UK based Captain and I met a French based FO on more than me. In fact I had the pleasure of meeting a French based chap recently in Lyon who laughed at how he is much better off remaining an FO there than taking a command and the mandatory move to LGW. You also mention Lisbon. That is what EZY want to, and eventually will do to all new crew. Do you think the disparity is a mistake, or was done to look after the French guys? No. they will do their worst to you they can get away with, as is demonstrated there. I'd be interested in your view on these disparities EZY chaps.

Good luck to all those in the process. I for one am glad I'm not, and didn't attempt to be. Regional flying may be less well remunerated by 20% or more, but I get home by 2100 at the latest, or leave at 0700 earliest. That is what I call home every night.

As a postscript I do agree with the posts which say solidarity on an individual level is a waste. You won't get a better offer at EZY. And over time only worse. There is a queue of inexperienced children with papa's cash in their back pocket who will take it. Which I suspect is what EZY are looking for, they just tried it on a bit in the meantime to see how desperate those with experience really are. If you want your experience to be taken seriously I suspect Jet 2 is the place for you. Or business aviation at the upmarket level, where these salaries are bottom end.

Best Wishes to everyone on this post.

As Stiglet has said I think the deal is crap but that the places will be filled.

@James Brown, where do I start?

Commands are slowing down, new cadets have been told to expect 7-8 years to command.

Where are these skippers going to go to create the command vacancies? The only shock to easyjet's attrition forecast was DEC at EK where we lost 29 I believe, are they going to recruit DEC again? There has never been a mass exit for the doors, the likes of BA recruit perhaps 100 DEP's per year from across the industry?, Virgin is a basket case, Captains really leaving to become FO's at Monarch? Really?! Yes your friend who flies a biz jet may well love it and it suits him very well and earns more but it's a even more fickle business and I like being in my bed every night.

On average I am home at 2300 on lates and leave the house at 0530 on earlies. Yes the days are long but I still have a great quality of life. Everyone is different though.

@James Brown do you actually know why the Continental bases are on such a better deal than the UK pilots or do you want me to tell you? :E

Mainly due to the €:£ exchange rate. The Golden contract which was the Spanish contract (basic circa €140,000) which sadly doesn't exist anymore was poo poo'ed by the UK workforce as being paltry when it was created at the then exchange rate of £1:€1.45 in 2006 as it had no pension etc. Cue a falling pound and you've got UK pilots falling over themselves to get into Madrid. The same goes for CDG and MXP. When they were created they weren't that great but when the pound fell it became the promised land, for the commuter. Ask a euro pilot about his euromillions and most say it's bloody expensive over there especially if you are single as for families there are many tax breaks. Do I want to see contracts re-evaluated every time a currency falls or rises? No thanks. If you're paid in £ and spend in £ it makes no difference, likewise for the €. So are the euro contracts better off because of their tub thumping unions or is it historically because of the exchange rate when the contracts were created. It's a bit of both but mainly because of the latter.

Supply and demand - yawn.

10 years ago easy were handing out 5 figure golden hellos because they couldn't get enough pilots. Now it's the other way around. Soon it might go back the other way! Who knows.

Don't expect too much moaning from current EZY staff. Those who "prostrated themselves before the company" a few years back as you put it Lord Spandex Masher, are now sitting in the LHS on a good contract and have amassed life changing quantities of EZY stock.

That may well be but if the current trend continues then they will never struggle to get pilots. It will never go back the other way if people stay willing to do what they're doing now.

James Brown:
As already mentioned you have the £ vs € being the main reason for the difference in pay but do not forget:
That some countries pay their tax once or twice a year and not monthly like in the UK hence you have a high payout of which you have to save 20-25% to pay the tax office later in the year. You also forget that these guys abroad do not get pension contribution by the company like in the UK. So if we take the pension contribution into it and add that to the UK capt's monthly salary (about £550) it will be a different story I would Imagine!?

EZY isn't a that bad company to work for, but it isn't paradise either.
Pay is not bad as mentioned before, but some other advantages need to be put into perspective.

Home every night: as a captain, only if you live around LGW, as that is the only base at which new commands are offered, unless you are happy with a gross basic salary of 65000£ in LIS . So you will end up commuting during several years, this will turn 5/3-5/4 into 6/2-6/3 and it will cost you 1000£/month in accomodation, travel and food.

Fixed pattern: there is contimous pressure to get rid of the fixed pattern for new joiners and upgrades. Commuting on a flexi roster is a nightmare.

Share schemes have been very profitable over the last couple of years, but shares dropped from 7 to 3£ about 5 years ago, making these schemes worthless. So don't count on them.

Tranfer lists for uk regional and continental bases are becoming longer every day, count 20 to 25 years from joining, if you are looking at a LHS in LYS, TLS or NC

Conclusion: If you are not interested in LGW think twice.

For those that did go to the assessment, how long did you have to wait for the good/bad news??

After the assessment day I got a phone call on the same day and after doing the sim they called and emailed me 2 days later. So that was surprisingly quick.

WTF are they up to? 7000hrs TT 320/21/30, 757/767 rated, assessment passed. Sim check passed. "We are delighted to welcome you to the flight ops team as a First Officer" email received, but NO WORD OF ANY CONTRACT. That was 3 weeks ago...and waiting.

They have wasted my time and money, and I'm *&**((&ed off.

Mikehoncho - do you mind if I ask what you were offered

SusanBoyle since you are so hacked off with being successful I suggest you contact them to tell them to shove their job up their arse as they've wasted your time..........but I bet you won't ;)

asessment deferred
 

Has anyone else by any chance managed to book an assessment day for non type rated, only for it to be cancelled and deferred? No information about when it would be deferred to at this time.

what about first day? tech questions, just personal interview? any info about that?

thanx!!

Still waiting to hear since receiving a DTI
I must be a back up when everyone's told them to stick their expensive TR and bollocks contract up their arse!!!

Failed after Sim ride

Any feedback would have been appreciable after the 737 sim.

Anyway....i would have rejected any flexi contract proposition.

Good luck for the others...

Unfortunately you wont be given feedback at most airlines - it's an assessment not training. If you have any kind of experience you'll have a good idea where you went wrong. You can't be right for everyone, don't get disheartened.

Just would like to know, at the very end, how many person will get a permanent contract.....

+1 To politely decline.

3 different contracts available depending on how good you are on the day.

My view is either you are good enough or not.

I agree. It should be pass - you're good enough for us, welcome on board.

Or, fail - you're not quite up to grade this time. Try again in a while.

To offer 3 different contracts depending on "how you did on the day" seems a bit odd.

After all, what are they going to say to the regulator when an incident occurs?

"He was one of the better ones, so we gave him a real job. We can't believe he crashed"?

"He was average, so we gave him a real job with less stripes and less money. We are surprised he crashed"?

"He wasn't quite good enough in the group assessment or sim. But we gave him a shed load of debt and a temporary contract with no guarantee of where his next pay check was coming from. But, we cant really be surprised he crashed"?

Is this what the easy trainers and captains have "fought" for?

It's an obvious divide and conquer tactic.

Why am I paying my hard earned monies to BALPA every month:ugh:

To my kowledge everybody is getting the contract through CTC initially.

You can read it on the BALPA website:

BALPA | CASUALISATION - BREAKTHROUGH IN EASYJET

The first people offered a permanent position are the current Flexicrew already flying for Easyjet.

Correct me if I am wrong.

@Mike - yes and no.

Yes Flexi guys are slowly being put on the permie contracts.

Yes NEW cadets out of flight schools will initially go onto CTC contracts.

However this whole thread is about the Non Type rated guys with 1500TT+ which have the slighlty different contacts on offer.

ive read the entire thread...


could somebody PLEASE for once explain factually what the contracts on offer are?

thanks for the help!

NTR TP 1500 hrs

There is such a lot of drivel being written here. I have laid out exactly what the contract is for UK contracts in previous pages here. There is absolutely not 3 different contracts depending on how you do on the day. There is one contract which you can take or leave. If you do not like it, thank you for your interest, but please stand aside as their are literally hundreds of people desperate to take your place.

Anyone else received DTC but nothing since?

Heard from a fairly reliable source that only flexi/parc 12 month contracts are being offered to new joiners regardless of previous experience, performance in assessment etc.

AdM,

Word from the horses mouth i.e., someone who has attended the interview, is that EcamSurprise is right.

Is the Union aware of what is going on or not?

EcamSurprise,

Except that no one knows anyone who has been offered the below:

Is everybody who applied that bad?

A380 DEFO position anyone?

:E

At the end of your interview, the HR lady gives you a form to complete. This form asks you your base choices. It also asks you to circle yes or no on the form as to what contracts you will accept. I circled NO for the flexi 1 yr contract. When I had finished completing my form the HR lady looked over it and asked me 3 times to confirm that I was sure that I didn't want to circle YES for the 1 yr contract. I told her that I wasn't in a position to accept such a contract. She shrugged her shoulders. I knew what was coming. PFO email duly arrived later. My advise is to keep saying YES until they offer you a contract. You might get some sim practice out of it if nothing else.

Interestingly, 13 out of the 16 applicants on my day had jet experience, many are left seat. The 3 TP were left seat.

Once again,
how many people have been offered a FO/SFO position on a permanent contract after the sim ride.......:)?

I'd be surprised if anyone has. No-one I attended with was offered permanent. And one guy was 5000 hrs left seat jet. Heavier than an A320.

Don't tell me all these experienced guys aren't deemed worthy of a proper job in easyjet's eyes. Of course they are. They are just trying to get away with paying the least. It's a farce.

I've politely declined. I did say I would consider a permanent contract, but I'm not deluded enough to think I, or anyone, will get it. And as for those saying the starting salary could possibly be FO/SFO. If they're offering guys like I mentioned above flexiscrew contracts who exactly do they deem worthy of an SFO slot?

I hope someone gets a proper job out of it. I will cross my fingers that Jet2 comes up, they seem a decent employer who values experience and treats the RHS as a valuable part of the team, not an income source.

@ Guy of Gisborne
 

Here I am, DTC 20th May, nothing else since.

Civilian NTR, flying Jets, 1500+ hours

maybe im being naive about it,but arent you guys a bit too pessimistic?

i mean,they keep adding planes to the fleet,they train you to their standards and for sure,its a tough first year as flexi,but why wouldnt they extend you after the 12 months to a fixed permanent position, as they have been doing to so many others...

12 months in such a "regime"
is not the end of the world..or is it?

please correct me if im wrong!

I think there may be a misunderstanding here, but I am not sure. For the benefit of those not familiar with the recently negotiated New Entrant Contract (NEC) deal, let me lay it out again as follows:

You will be taken on initially as flexicrew for one year on an hourly rate, before joining the Company proper as a bona fide easyJet employee. Thereafter you do one year a Second Officer on £38k and no allowances, two years as a First Officer on £44,901 + around £8,270 sector pay and then after 2 years in rank (4 years since you joined as flexicrew) you become a Senior First Officer on £55,120 + £8,270 sector pay. Those FO/SFO jobs can end up as 75% salaries depending on which base you go to, as not all bases can offer 100% contracts. All contracts will be get the usual loss of licence, pension contribution of 7% etc. It is only when you become an SFO that you will be guaranteed the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern instead of a random roster. Also the promotions to the different ranks have some total flying hours experience limits attached to them, which in the vast majority of cases would not be an issue.

Regarding FO bonuses, under the previous contract a loyalty bonus was given of 5% after 3 years of a permanent contract. Under the NEC, which new joiners will receive, that is no longer the case. Instead, if the company performs well, you will receive up to 10% 'performance bonus' upon completion of 2 years on a permanent contract - ie 3 years after you join the Company. It is a better deal than previously, but more dependent on easyJet's profitability.

Once you become a Captain, your basic salary is £90,012 (90% of that for the first 6 months) and your sector pay is £28.75 per sector (the Company assumes 480 sectors a year) making the total sector pay around £13,800. In addition you get a 'loyalty bonus' of 5% of basic after 2 years, 10% after 5 years and 15% after 10 years. Those years are backdated to the day you join as an SO, so if it took you 8 years to become a Captain you would kick in straight away to the 10% loyalty bonus. Again, the Company pays 7% of basic + loyalty pay into your pension fund each year. In addition there are various performance payments of 2 weeks salary depending on Company success - for a Captain that is capped at £3k and has been paid the last 2 years and probably this year too. Finally, if you become a Training Captain, there are various 'levels', all of which are pensionable (i.e. your 7% includes your Training Captain uplift). You get 12.5% for a Line Trainer, 15% for a TRI, 17.5% for a TRE and 20% for an Airborne Base Trainer.

So that is the basic deal. Now onto the allegations of different contracts being offered out depending on how good your are at interview. I am very aware of the 75% contract deal, although in practice it will be 100% for most people. That is what was agreed with BALPA and is in keeping with the terms of the New Entrant Contract (NEC) and is part of the deal for a period of time. At no point, however, was there any agreement regarding 'not being good enough to get a permanent contract' so you get some sort of naff CTC flexicrew deal. My initial feeling on this is that some more experienced pilots may have been offered a higher place on the NEC scale than others. In practice that means that some pilots may be allowed to join at, say, the second year which would give them a straight £38k a years as Second Officers. Others, by virtue of experience, may be eligible to join as, say, First Officers and so on. That does not mean there are multiple contracts on offer – it means that you can join higher on the NEC scale, which I would have no problem with in principle. I will be happy to accept if I am wrong, but at this stage I do not believe I am. It would turn into a very big deal indeed were there to be some variation on what has been agreed at the highest levels between BALPA and the Company. As I say, I will check and find out, but I think my explanation is more probable at this point.

I have a report of a 320 pilot failing the selection then recontacted, told he had now passed and being offered a parc flexi crew contract that leads to no guaranteed job, permanent flexi parc.

What I don't know is where this was. My guess is Germany or maybe Portugal? If the UK then serious questions need to be asked, am waiting on confirmation of location of this "offer".

I know of another that was initially told they were unsuccessful following an assessmnent day. Two days later they were offered a flexi-contract which they declined. This was UK

The ones who are selling this as a good deal can only be institutionalised.... 20k for what I read on a fixed term contract of 1 year on a mixed of full time to part time.

Had I known this I wouldn't have wasted my time applying.