It's a matter of opinion, but I believe that 33k rising to 41k + variable pay is a perfectly good wage for any FO. It's roughly the same as a junior doctor or new ATC will get and is a liveable wage, if you don't have £1000+/month loan repayments. That's the key issue, paying upfront for flight/line training and the whole flexicrew system needs to change.

Unless things have changed recently ATC used to be about £50K starting once you'd finished your on the job training bit.

You're missing the point Utd. They have to spend AT LEAST 24 months on a zero hours contract first. No fly-no money. In winter than can literally mean no money and in the shadows lurks £100k of debt.

As despicable as this offer is with regard to the zero hours aspect of this contract . I have some sympathy with ManUTD1999's view. After all I have a mortgage. My debts are my problem and should not be considered when it comes to pay negotiation.

If these people took out debt to train that's the risk they took. Cut your cloth fellows. Save up for the lean winter months.

The thing I want to see is easyjet pilots in easyjet planes.

All that I fly with are happy enough and gross 35K on average. Its those that take out big car loans and live over their means that create such bad press.

Age 22 and earning 35K aint bad. The reality is 35K, not a 'zero hours contract'.
If people are better at budgeting and save some summer pay for the lean winter months all would be well.

Before I am shot down, I DO NOT AGREE with the way easy are doing this, but I am putting some much needed perspective on it.

But they're not all doing that are they. That's the problem. New entrants this year, new commands next year, existing commands beyond that. The slide to the bottom is well underway.

There are indeed a significant number of our FOs driving cars that I could never dream of. I suspect that is a combination of rich parents, living at home and a willingness to take on debt that I would never countenance. At the end of the day, disposable income has to be just that and what people do with their money is their own problem. Also, the level of indebtedness they were willing to undertake to become a pilot is also their own personal problem. No one with a brain in their head could have gone into this without an idea of the massive risks involved financially. Also, no one is on a zero hours contract, however bad the situation is. Nonetheless, it is a B Scale and that must be fought or there will be a C and D scale to follow.

This can all be resolved by incorporating the same 1500 hr minimum for airline pilots that the US are about to take on. No more CTC etc, airlines recruiting the DE and ex mil pilots out of work due to "trapped by loan" cadets willing to work for brass buttons, T&Cs improved as airlines now fight for the best of those few with enough hours and, type ratings provided by the operator.
No more buying your way into the flight deck, getting there purely through hard work and gaining the airmanship required along the way.
I was always taught that learning from your mistakes is good but learning from someone else's is better. Come on CAA sort this s**t out!

Guys and gals

people is missing one massive point. Not all of the flexicrews are 22 years old cadets!!

There are guys circa 30-40 y/o, and as much as 7000-8000 TT. Just imagine how they (we) feel having our face slapped by this "offer".

Disgusting. Just disgusting :{

Beside the "child's car" discussion, this is the point of everything
We have already seen how things have gone that direction with the LIS contract... yes, it is "acceptable" to be on lower wages at the beginning of your career and that is now "not hurting you", well estabilished Captain in your own base, but no-one knows what can be the next offer, or to whom it will be directed.

In that respect the loco's are very clever, they keep their captains well paid and in return very little trouble is caused as they destroy new FO T &Cs. No matter how many times you say it, you won't stop cadets risking their own and their parents money in pursuit of 'the dream'. If captains had taken a stand a few years back and refused to fly with any flexicrew pilot, we might not be in this situation now.

That said, I don't know much about the situation at Easyjet and it may be that people higher up the food-chain are indeed doing more than it seems from the outside.

Points out (yet again) that the UK law regarding unofficial industrial action would make that course of action very interesting.

...then they would have been instantly dismissed.

You don't really get this, do you?

Utter rubbish, there are loads of ways of stopping this cancer, it only takes a few line trainers and TRE's. They are the ones who participated in this and now they come here complaining how sh!t their industry is getting.....

cldrvr

Blame, blame, blame. :ugh:

If you are a LTC/TRE and suddenly you mostly fail people where previously you mostly passed people, then you will either be dismissed for IA, or disciplined/demoted for failing to be a trainer who can train.

Remember that lots of our flexicrew have may thousands of hours on type, and are not 200 hour wonderboys. One chap I regularly fly with has 9500 Airbus hours.

The significant change is that now all of our 450 flexicrew are seriously pissed off ("disappointed") and are looking to get out. In the mean time, from 1st April, existing employees and new flexicrew converts will have the legal opportunity for the first time to take industrial action.

No, actively participating in preventing this cancer from spreading to our side of the industry, with results. Our T&C's are improving while yours are going down year on year.

10-15 years ago you guys were earning more than we did, that has now been reversed not only by yours going down, but ours are steadily improving.

Our longhaul drivers are now on contracts that even BA in its heyday could not reach. Long may it continue.

Companies like eJ and FR will only pay what they have to and as long as there are guys either willing to pay for their own training/uniforms/base checks and guys like your 9500 hour driver accepting crap terms and as long as there are LHS drivers willing to fly with them and trainers willing to train them, this is only going to get worse, not better.

Our part time FA's are on better money than your RHS drivers are, what does this say about your part of the industry.

You guys are in a race to the bottom, you haven't reached it yet.

Just stick on another 500kg's for flexi-crew per flight.

It worked when Andy threatened to take away the free tea and coffee a few years ago.

(good to see a few more ex-Easy captains propping up the EK seniority list these days)

I honestly believe that Easyjet could offer total £25k pa for FO's and £40k pa for captains no pension etc and they wouldn't struggle finding people willing to do it...

I wouldn't go that far KidekiTojo... Plus they would really put the airline on fire, that's absolutely certain !