N74 and I'm off

No argument there but we live in an imperfect world with such things as market forces!

It came about as a result of negotiation. As you probably know, when BALPA and an airline sit down they usually start at polar opposites and the outcome depends on their relationship and lots of other issues, including market forces determine how close to whichever sides' wishlist the result is.

In this case we wanted to open up recruitment and the price was training cost repayment. For the TR guy it doesn't work so well but for the non TR guy there is a cost but the payback is no bond. Neither are satisfactory IMHO but the best we could do.

I'm not being glib when I say "if you don't like it, don't join". It is a fact of life. Apparently there has been a huge response so it would appear that a good number of people are prepared to take a short term financial hit, however immoral, in return for a career choice that suits them. Voila! Market forces.

IMHO that is not a good precedent but it does offer a good return compared with other airlines who charge for all sorts and then don't offer the return as they are rubbish places to work.

Does anyone know if it will be the old Thomson (no P :)) recruitment over 2 days with all the tests and interviews etc?

This job offer makes me realize just how bad the state of our profession is.Dogsbody bucket and spade carrier wants you to PAY for the pleasure of flying with them and its only part-time and you can be booted out anytime.And muppets sit here and say @Gosh,what a good offer it is!".Makes me puke it really does.Pilots deserve all they get.It used to be a great profession peopled by gents with breeding,guts and gumption.Now all youve got are spineless wimps whod rather sell their soul to the devil than band together and say "NO!Im not going to take this!Im going to do something about it"The beancounters must love muppets like you lot.
Not one good airline left in Britain!Not one!And in the world,maybe half a dozen left.Well.Im out of this racket soon anyway but I was still born 20 years too late.Those :mad: born in the 40's had the best of it.

Damn right.

Lousy
 

I could apply and would probably get offered a start if I jumped through the silly HR hoops correctly. But I'll stay where I am. And keep my money.Anyone who takes this is devaluing our profession. TUI stink.

Congratulations caulfield

Enjoy your retirement. If the new guys are to blame then so are you. People like yourself protected their lot and watched others take the hit. Now it has spiralled out of control. "Men of breeding, guts and gumption." Christ, for a moment I thought I was reading a novel based on the War or the Explorers of the New World. Whilst this offer may not be anywhere near the Britannia/Thomson of old, it outside BA, Monarch and Virgin is all you are going to achieve in terms of a permanent UK based contact. As you say, you are soon out of this racket. So why comment? Ive flown with many a person of your generation. The vast majority would blow hot air all day. I think the term is loading both barrelles and standing back and watching the gun go off?

Out of interest, has anyone heard anything relating to these positions?

Caulfield - 'spineless wimps' hhmm, maybe you were part of the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade who sat back and watched all this happen, so much for banding together right? :yuk:

CK, nothing heard yet, very early days though.

Heard nothing either.

You can't really blame the pilots already in Thomson for what is happening! Thomson need pilots and say to themselves let's see how low we can make the contract and see if people apply and oh look an endless supply of people willing to sign up. If you lot didn't apply then Thomson would have no choice but to improve the offer to attract the people.

No good blaming those already employed in the company for the new people willing to constantly sell their souls :=

It's been one full working day since the applications closed and you guys are expecting to have heard something! You lot must be really good. :ooh:

Caulfield, a very nice little speech there but CK has a point. Whilst it's a very easy target to point the finger about new entrants to the industry, the people who were best place to oppose the declining terms and conditions were those who were already in secure employment, with union representation and a voice; not the young bloke who has to make a choice between long-term unenmployment or a low paid flying job. Why - because most would get to retirement before it became their problem. Thanks for the legacy.

The fact that most Ryanair FOs are not interested in applying for this position should tell you a lot.

It's a vicious circle for new guys starting out in flying. If they don't sign up to it there is someone right behind them willing to and the airlines know it.

That's a fact is it? And if so, why?

Pros and cons. There are several good points about the deal, but since you ask here are some of the major negative ones.

Significant pay cut.
Less job security. Risk of company going bust or redundancies.
Part-time status.
Time to command.

Yes how so.... bar the few people who are completely blind or lucky in ryanair a large number of Ryanair guys will apply. Especially if they are from the UK.

A basic salary, transparency, a proper contract which is tax compliant and is not based with some irish ltd bogus company with directors you don't know. None of the expenses you incur in Ryanair and some respect. Plus much much more. Apart from the time to upgrade being a negative this company looks like heaven in comparison to Ryanair.

Agreed irishpilot. And there are PLENTY of pilots from Ryanair who have applied - that is a fact.

Like I said, pros and cons. You list some good points, I on request listed some bad points. It's not a clear cut preference whereas BA, Virgin, Emirates etc are no-brainers. Levels of crewroom talk reflect the different levels of interest between Thomson and the others mentioned. The issue is that although Ryanair T&Cs are non-existent, the take home is pretty reasonable and you know the company won't be going bust or laying people off in the forseeable future. It's an individual choice, but as far as I can see, far fewer individuals are interested in this one than they were in the others.

So is it fair to say that the average FR guy/gal ready for a command upgrade course i.e. 3000 to 4000 hours on type will make the jump to Thomson if an offer came to the table?

A fair few newly qualified skippers in FR gave up the left seat to come to BA.

But the majority I spoke to said Emirates or BA was the only gig they would forfeit the left seat for.

No disrespect to Thomson but I would not have thought that many command ready FOs albeit in FR would give up the chance of an upgrade course onto a 737-800.

It seems I was wrong.

Interesting times.

Does anyone on the inside know exactly how many pilots they need to recruit and if they will have problems filling these slots....?

The basic pay isn't much different for an FR first officer doing 800 hrs even with the £7000 deduction for the first year. I think I worked out there's less than a grand in it. And then the Thomson job comes with the benefits of a pension, loss of licence insurance, food, holiday etc.

Yes, the Thomson job is partly part-time but does that matter if you're paid a salary? Let's face it, in reality working for FR is also part-time and un-paid over the winter.

I suspect many FR pilots close to command upgrade would forgo the massive extra stress of being a Captain at the low fuel airline and move to Thomson.

This is especially so when you consider that FR skippers on BRK contracts will have the expense of having to commute/live away from home, fund their own pensions in full, get chased by more than one tax authority, and pay out fines when their 200 hr FO screws up a MAD SID.

And expansion stops next year so their future in FR does not look that rosey.

Interesting thoughts, but not everyone is planning on jumping ship. I for one cannot afford to take a £1000 per month pay cut to move to a part time job where I am at the bottom of the seniority list and in prime redundancy territory.

The only redeeming quality to this application is the fact it is with an employer, rather than an agency. I am far more interested in Monarch than Thomson, and that's as a former employee from the other side of the door.