EZY Cadet Contracts
 

Hi All,

I’m stuck in the perpetual loop of FTO research and have been having a gander at CTC’s website over the past week. Some friends of friends have been there and seem convinced that of all the integrated options, it is the best; the main contributor to which is their placement record with Easyjet. To the unassuming wannabe there are two routes if you really have your heart set on Easyjet. Going through CTC and Flexicrew or OAA and Parc.

Going from out of date information on ppjn and previous posts on pprune, Flexicrew pilots spend 8 months line training with a possible offer of a temporary contract thereafter for whatever length of time. I don’t have much information on Parc. I thought it best to ask those better informed and on the ground about a few of these issues?

Are Flexicrew FOs any better off than Parc FOs or vice-versa?
Where are cadets placed, and, if the answer is continental Europe, are there opportunities to move to any UK bases?
Are there any thresholds for the offering of a permanent contract and are they only available at certain bases?

Thanks in advance.

only 1 criteria for either, can you bend over and touch your toes? :eek:

Also they want to know if you like your raping, sorry, shafting with or without lube. The correct answer is no. More company person like. Yes implies you could be partial to union membership and finally feel you were taken advantage of in your delicate self.

I'd ask again in a week or so; a lot will change if the pay deal goes through.

Wow!
 

"Worst case scenario you would have a discounted 320 type rating with around 500 hours"

Wow! So i spend £120k with CTC and get to fly passengers for next to nothing before being let go to fend for myself and pay off those loans! Brilliant! Where do I sign?!!

Oh, hang on I heard another UK LoCo offering B737 rating and a full time job - 3 year reducing bond (only pay if I leave early), pay £22k under training and £43k on line plus flight pay....... and they take all backgrounds including cadets, ex mil, GA, biz jet pilots, other airlines, turbo prop pilots.....

Who would have thought it possible!

Angel: £120k is a bit unfair and exaggerated at best. Including insurance and living expenses, the CTC Integrated cost is around £85,000 which is on par with OAA and FTE. £93,000 with type rating, fair enough, but surely most operators would want more than £8,000 for this anyways?

The UK LoCo you speak of sounds very appealing, although without the name I cannot research it! Also, the fact that they take on all kinds of backgrounds is of no use to an ab-initio cadet and if anything would reduce my chances no? If it's who I think you're talking about then yes, it would be great situation to be in. But I dare say that this company would be only be taking in a handful of positions at a time compared to other operators and as such you'd have to be very very lucky to be available when they are hiring.

When I say worst case scenario, this is relatively speaking.. Better to be out there with hours on type rather than nothing at all surely?

I appreciate you're all warning of the situation the industry but I'm only trying to inform myself so I can make the best of this situation should I decide to start training this year. As such, I'm only trying to keep the thread on topic with the questions I asked which are still unanswered.

Word on the street is that Easyjet have already told CTC they have no work for 2 of their courses this year beyond the 8 month 'training' period.

Do Flexicrew fly much in the winter months? I heard an average take home figure for an EZY FO on flexicrew is circ £4k... surely not in winter on pay by hour.

My average take home over the whole year is £2400 per month (but then £1250 goes on my loan.) Pay will go up 20% when you hit 1500 hours. I've had pretty low hours this last year compared to my colleagues at other bases so obviously those that are getting more work are taking home more. £4000 is slightly unrealistic I think before 1500 hours but possible after 1500 hours in the summer months. I've never seen that kind of pay packet...
Loan repayments are much higher than initially planned because I had to defer payments for about a year. So you could reckon on paying less than that if you are feeling lucky/optimistic. However, I've heard similar rumours about the latest batch of CTC trainees not being held after this coming summer ends on so things are looking slightly pessimistic at the moment.
Parc guys have to pay for their type ratings up front which is demanding to say the least. But the cost is tax deductible because you set up your own company. As a result of paying more up front the Parc guys have a slightly better deal in terms of hourly rate but there's only about £2 per hour in it.

''Flexicrew pilots spend 8 months line training with a possible offer of a temporary contract thereafter for whatever length of time.''

Is anyone else despairing at how low our industry has sunk?

No us

That sounds a lot more than several close friends of mine who fly more than that. I wonder if this is due to playing with the tax being 'self employed'.

I would be cautious of the self employed issue. According to HMRC you aren't. Unless you fly for others on your days away from EZY. The way things are I'd be keeping a stash in case the tax man comes knocking.

EZY has made the highest profit ever in 2011 !!!

Yet are still offering these appalling contracts ..........The management and accountants must be laughing all the way to their ever increasing bank balance!!!

As Dan Winterland says it is just utterly despairing how low our industry has sunk!

Novus,

You should be subject to IR35.

Read: HM Revenue & Customs:

I think you'll be able to answer YES to most of those questions. If I were you, I'd keep a chunk of your past earnings, since the tax man can go back 7 years to claim what he thinks he's due.

You also need to be careful of VAT rules. Supplying services in excess of the VAT threshold will mean you'll be subject to that too.

This is the inevitable, well signposted and argued at the time, result of people self sponsoring >£100k training places.

Despite the credit crunch. In contrast to the recession. Regardless of the current contracts. CTC and Oxford have queues around the block.

The market is telling us something. The market is telling us that the price of First Officers has further to fall. Until that queue gets shorter this is what will happen. Dragging us all down with it.

The queue is not getting shorter. I thought it would. I really did. But I won't lie.


WWW

WWW

As Martin Luther King said " I had a dream "

I have no sympathy for anyone who signs up for these pipe dreams.

In fact I fly with people who are so desperate to fly that they report when sick. Not any more. I shall offload them on report if I consider them unfit to fly.

A crew member shall not perform duties on an aeroplane if applicable medical requirements are not fulfilled, or if he/she is in any doubt of being able to accomplish his/her assigned duties.Many medications may have adverse effects on the nervous system, which may be more marked in flight than on the ground. As a general rule, if a crew member finds it necessary to take, or has been prescribed some form of medication, his fitness to fly must be suspect, and he should seek medical advice before continuing with flying duties.

Many drugs lower operational efficiency and impair judgement and reaction time. Crew members should be aware that many drugs, their dosage and use, while suitable for family members and passengers may be unsuitable for crew. Commonly prescribed drugs in the following classes may have prolonged effects on performance:

Just to add my little bit to the takehome pay debate. LGW FO. Loan repayments £1142 p/m. Bills for those who are not use to paying them are around £600, broken down as follows (sharing with gf - numbers are my half):

Rent: 400
Council Tax: 45
Gas/Electric: 21
Internet/Phone: 10
TV Licence: 6
Contents Ins: 4.50
Water bill: 4

The rest are my sole costs:
Car Insurance: 45
Loss of licence ins: 22
Mobile: 11
BALPA: 10
Life ins: 5
Credit card repayment and other loan: 22

Other costs you have each year -
Road tax: 240
Medical: 100-150
Breadown: 35

The following is NET takehome pay (net is after tax/NI/student loan deductions) followed by the amount left each month after taking away loan repayment and £600 for bills (-£1800). This excludes food and petrol.

£2,710.00 £910.00
£2,626.00 £826.00
£2,116.06 £316.06
£2,864.50 £1,064.50
£2,947.27 £1,147.27
£2,422.66 £622.66
£3,071.71 £1,271.71
£2,063.57 £263.57
£2,471.77 £671.77

As you can see, not one month did I take home £4000 as someone claimed earlier - even in peak summer working 100 hours over the month. The £3071.71 was a month where I had a crap load of holiday to take too.

I'm expecting the next two months to be around the £2000 mark as near the last 2 months shown. £263 after all bills still has to pay for food and petrol, and that was also Christmas so quite difficult to buy presents.

You may think £1000 expendable income is a lot - it's not. My car needs repairs, 3 times last year -£600, £400 and £600 again inc MOT. Can't afford a new one so those repairs will run into next year. I find the months I get £600 expendable just enough to live and save a little bit in case of emergency - such as the car repairs. The months I get £300 or £200 I have to use that spare I've saved to live off.

Do not think this is easy - it may look a lot on paper but it soon disappears. I spend 2 or 3 hours a week looking through my excel spreadsheet of direct debits to see how I can reduce them - there's not movement on anything now so I'm stuck - and I've mananged to get my expenditures as low as possible.

My loan was £65k plus £5k for living expenses. With interest rates rising again in a couple of years and a loan of £85+ (probably nearer £100k) how are you going to pay off your loan? You need to really think about the first 3 or 4 years of your career when you get online - not the present and not if you get a command. What happens if you get laid off again after the 8 months?

I signed up when cadets were going straight into the RHS with a perm contract - there is absolutely NO WAY I would sign up for any FTO given the current climate.

I know I'll be ignored but don't say you weren't warned.

edited to add: don't forget you also have to pay for your own uniform, there is NO pension, and no pay if you're sick. You do get holiday pay (ctc fleixcrew anyway)

I concur with HPBleed's assessment of take home pay, I'm flexicrew through CTC and the best month I ever had was £3000 net. Worse was £2000, which luckily I had taken 7 days of leave (circa £800 net). So for the flying duties that month I earnt £1200 after tax.

The parc situation is quite different as first year figures are skewed by paying very little tax on the type rating. Second year figures will be more comparable. Parc do get a little more per hour, but do not attract any holiday pay. As has been pointed out, uniform, medicals, loss of license and pension are all left down to you... So whilst the headline figures may look acceptable in summer, they are certainly not on par with the permanent f/o population. Do not be tricked into thinking they are.

WWW, Dan 98 & Dane Winterland
 

I don't think the bottom is anywhere near being reached unfortunately.

The desperate (only by their own actions) FO's who got into this sh1t, will be only too happy to accept pathetically low Command pay as well inside easyJet if the company attempts to ram it through in such a fashion.

For one naive Monkey to mention his pay as £2000 a month, whilst marvelling at easy's record profits makes me realise how some people just have blinkers on.

Record profits being driven by record low salaries, as well as decent sales is what the 1/2 year results should have said.

They don't report that to the Stock Exchange though. Doesn't read quite so well in a trading statement.:=:=:=:=

Ah but Narrow Runway, they've made profit this year and the future looks bright so it's all ok and they'll soon start treating us properly again! :hmm::yuk:

Not.

The more profit they make, the worse they'll treat us, because they realise that it doesn't matter how poorly they treat us, we still do SE taxi, flap 3 etc. The more costs management cut the higher their bonuses - so Novus - wipe that smug grin off your face and look forward to your shafting.

I used to get paid £10 an hour airborne. UK, 1999/2000.

Flying instruction hasn't moved on much sadly.


You pay £100k to bypass all those rungs and move straight to large PLc AirBoeing - you end up on crap wages and rubbish terms.

Jumping the bottom 5 rungs of the ladder just drags rung 5 down to the rung 1 in pay. You are all the authors of your own misery. I really wish it were not so. Not least because you are fine people and that your cheapness increases the contrast to my expensiveness.

I find myself paying >£800 a year to BALPA whilst half you lot don't bother paying the £10 a month special deal. I exhort BALPA to find ways of helping you from the pathetic position you have put yourselves in regarding employment. I vote on pay deals which forfeit further pay rises in order to fund getting you onto a proper contract so as to curb your undercutting.

I concur that this was either the best deal available or that the deal isn't as good as promised. However. You. Turned up. Paid >£80k. Attended for a year. Completed. And now work under terms that you, by those actions, largely created.


Your plight is alarming, wrong, detrimental and completely your own fault.


WWW

This makes solemn reading indeed.
I gained my fATPL over 2 years ago the "old fashioned" way by keeping my day job, saving, and spending as I trained the modular route.
I disagree with P2F and paying for TRs hence several IR renewals later I'm still in the day job, albeit debt free.
I can understand if someone started training before the financial crisis began and now has £80K+ of debt, the industry has changed and people are forced to take whatever is on offer to make the the loan repayments.
What I really can't comprehend is anyone ploughing in huge amounts of their (or anyone elses) cash into an industry on its knees in an economic meltdown and being prepared to work for literally nothing afterwards.
I have waited for 2+ years for these people to wake up and stop, hoping that this will bring to an end these demeaning slavery contracts.
No pension? No sick pay? No loss of licence? Paying for your uniform?
Now it seems an airport car park pass is a perk FFS!!
I hear the argument "well once you get your foot in the door you can move on to better things in a year or so".
The problem with that is we are now seeing the "better things" going the same way now, and so it will continue.
WWW if what you say is true about the queues at OAA then god knows what the contracts will be like in 12 months from now.
I'm not a negative person by nature, quite the opposite in fact, but I hold out little hope for this situation improving whilst people are blind to the big picture.
Good luck to all involved- think I might re train as a gas engineer!!

As WWW says, most of us, prior to these schemes flogged around as instructors. With luck you would then progress to piston or light turbines flying any kind of work available all for crap money, sometimes for years. With a little more luck if you survived that bit, you would eventually land yourself a decent job having served your apprenticeship. £2000 to £3000 a month for being tucked up in a cosy warm Airbus with a (sometimes) experienced captain; you don't know how lucky you are. Wakey, wakey.

However, if BALPA insisted on equality of pay and contract for f/o's as achieved by our European neighbours they might be worth £10/month. Instead they decided that they were unable to represent their interests because they were not easyjet employees. Couldn't possibly get hands dirty or spend any cash on such a tricky situation, noo.

I don't concur with all of that. Not completely. However the detrimental effect is blatant.

Somewhere along the line, in the last 4 to 7 years, something changed for the worse in airline recruitment (specifically jet recruitment). When I came up, it appeared that we were the last group of individuals who were hanging onto the self-improver route by it's balls. Stories still surfaced regarding people who travelled from CPL/IR to a FIC and then FI, turboprop or air charter/taxi then jet. However it was dying rapidly, with more and more being left in the doldrums of flight instruction - I would include myself as an example until I forced myself to do something about it i.e. 'join the heard.'

When I received my blue book and later started on my FIC, CTC appeared well underway, integrated schools were spending unholy amounts in marketing a direct path to BA etc and Ryanair was churning away at their SSTR scheme (but still taking DE FOs and offering permanent contracts to entrants - just the same as Easyjet!!). The ways to bypass those rungs on the ladder were laid out, however they weren't as prevalent as it appears today. Now new entrants are unwilling to research option. People are leaving flight school and heading directly for FR or EZY without passing Go. It's as if they have it in their heads that this is considered to be their natural progression. Someone is feeding this to wanabees and the airlines, namely the two largest LCCs, subscribe to the very fact. Hence the disgraceful terms and conditions on offer. Their price to realise a burning ambition!

The recession hasn't created a slow down, it's only added to the degradation. Credit has become more limited, however people still have access to money. Unfortunately more and more of the people shedding out the money seem both devoid of talent and ethic. Individuals are presented with a minimum fuss route to the RHS of a jet. They clearly see their piers progressing onto a 737 or an A320 in a matter of two very short years; maximum! The light becomes blinding - it's the very same wet behind the ears nonsense that always existed. Mummy and Daddy want Junior to follow his dream however know absolutely nothing about what kind of damage has been done to the industry. Unless they looked far far beyond the glossy FTO brochures and the marketing rhetoric; how would they?

People who qualified 10 to 15 years ago cannot compare what is happening today to what was considered the norm back then. It's like comparing apples to oranges. They can however accept some portion of the blame to why all this sh1t has occurred.

Why does line training take 8 months at Easy?

You're a 21 year old interested in flying for a career.

You can spend 18 months having a ball at CTC in NZ etc with mates interested in the same thing as you.

Then hopefully get into EZY flying round Europe on a reasonable roster for £1,500 a month after loan repayments and then be set on your career.

Alternatively, you could plod on at your local flying club, become an FI on £500 a month teaching difficult students in aged aircraft whilst wondering whether it'll take ten years to get into a 320 or whether you'll just give up.

Alternatively you could get a spanking graduate job with Mr Big PLC or Big lawyer and be earning the same for an office job doing serious hours. PS - you still have to pay living expenses and that city wage doesn't go far in central London!


I really don't think it's that irrational choosing the CTC option, especially as people/parents have the money (which does take some getting used to).

FANS
 

Are you a shareholder in CTC? Or perhaps in easyJet?

You don't pay £100k to get a job in any other "profession". Why do we do it in ours?

What happens to that debt you incurred when your "job" disappears due to bankruptcy of your employer? It doesn't get wiped out and no-one cares. No-one is going to pay it for you.

And you knw what? You gotta find a new job. But, hey!!! There aren't any because more wannabes are working for less than you can afford to, at a.n.otherairlines inc. yet another nasty low morals outfit. But they're the only game in town but you're not qualified because you're too experienced/expensive.

Another type rating perhaps? Then you realise you can't, because you're bankrupt. And then your wife/girlfriend leaves you and you're getting to rock bottom. You have to go to China/Indonesia/Vietnam/Saudi/UAE (delete the ones you don't fancy). You don't see your friends and family for months on end.

Finally, you realise it wasn't such a good idea.

This is a situation not far from happening for a lot of greedy little grabbers.


Unbelieveably daft viewpoint IMHO. :yuk:

I absolutely agree FANS. I would also add that it isn't necessarily a case of people/parents having the money, so much as them having the assets to guarantee loans for that money. For your 21 year old paying back these loans over 7 years that is a large chunk of money, but over half can be idealogically offset by mitigating what might otherwise have been university fees and expenses for four years. That is before the alternative vocational fees and costs even come into play.

These placements (for the first six months) are simply a part of the cadets advanced training. Prior to the recession (and to a limited degree even now,) some of these cadets get placed with airlines where they pay nothing for their type ratings, and where they live on flight pay/ expenses from the airline concerned, as well as a return of part of their training costs (bond) on a monthly basis. During this recession, there have been very few companies offering placements. One exception has been this large "lo-cost" company, who has written their own rules to reflect the fact they are a large buyer in a marketplace that is almost empty of buyers.

So however good or bad the reality, the option is what? As FANS has said to spend the next decade hoping something better will come along, or fritter good cash after bad trying to keep those expensively aquired licences alive on an annual basis. Whinge on internet forums, about the relative merits of modular/integrated training? Debate the wisdom of handing over cash to some dodgy outfit in Indonesia promising type ratings and vanity line training?

The training sums involved are about the same as buying a poverty spec Audi R8 or a reasonably well equipped Mercedes SL500. The car will hold around 40% of its cash value after 3 years but will earn nothing. The licence will have no cash value at all, but will enable those following this route (where available) to earn a salary.

In 7 years time (all being well) the 21 year old is now 28 with their training loans paid off and hopefully in the same boat as everybody else. They have served their apprenticeship. Financially it was a bit of a struggle? (Shrug!)

I despair, the world has gone mad.

Comparing a loan TO GET A JOB of £80+k, to a poverty R8 is just stupid.

How many 21 years old own an R8?

Actually, how many 28, 31, 41, 51 etc. year olds own an R8?

They are a LUXURY, a job is a necessity in life.:{:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Narrow Runway

I believe FANS was pointing out that there is no other option being presented to the 'greedy little grabbers.'

I work with these 'fresh out of training' cadets and they are utterly clueless about the industry. They have it pumped into them that if they don't get Easyjet or Ryanair, then they're done.

I'm not saying it's right and to be fairly honest I believe it shows an incredible level of naivety/lack of maturity. But there you are; a sign of today's 'buy now pay later' society. Yes you are probably right, a lot of these people will be paying for the decisions that they make now at a later stage. Pot-less in some back of beyond location, no meaningful social or family life with complete destain for the industry that they work in. But they can't see that when they start out and that's the main issue here.

Narrow Runway
 

1. I’m not a shareholder in CTC or EZY PLC.

2. I wouldn’t describe it as a profession now, but that’s neither here nor there.

3. Bankruptcy is one of the few things you don’t need to worry about at EZY. Just most airlines.

4. If you must leave, your time at EZY would qualify for mainline airlines.

5. You’re getting a 320 TR which has to be the best out there, not a Saab TR.

6. People are having to move in lots of Mon-Fri jobs, with a 2 day weekend leaving no possibility of seeing friends & family.

I fully accept it’s not ideal (what is?), but if you want to fly for a living it’s the best out there. I’d rather spend £85k on CTC than £45k instructing and hoping.

The money’s actually very good for any first job (which is what it is), but zero hour contracts can leave you in a huge mess with loans to service hence one could argue that only the well off need apply.

You are not buying a job, you are buying a training course with a vocational attachment. This is what that money buys you. I doubt many 21 year olds would spend this sort of money on a car, but then I doubt many 21 year olds would spend this sort of money on anything simply because they cannot raise it. However it isn't them raising it, it is the parents, Some of whom I am sure understand the illustration.
Yes, but an airline pilots job is not a necessity unless perhaps you already are one. It is an expensive vocation.

FANS/Beazlebub
 

1) You sound like a shareholder!

2) Why wouldn't you describe it as a profession now? Is it for unprofessional people? What is an unprofessional Captain?

3) Are easyJet immune from bankruptcy? Why?

4) What if the majors Aren't hiring at the time of you losing your job? The likelihood is they won't be.

5) Ask those experienced 737 pilots who'd like to join Ryanair, but can't, because theyre not Cadets. The airlines set the criteria and it may not suit you.

6) largely irrelevant. They're not in massive debt.

Loans shouldn't be extended to people without PERMANENT employment, this is an extension of the irrational banking boom of the last decade. The warning signs are there!!!!

Beazlebub, you're right. An airline job is nice. But it didn't used to be do expensive. You sound like a management stooge. Do you really believe what you're saying?

Narrow runway,

A lot of things used to be less expensive. So what?

Whatever I may sound like to you, your assesment is unreliable.

Yes, I do believe what I am saying.

I wouldn’t describe it as a profession, based on the entry requirements/those now entering this area of employment compared to solicitors/doctors etc – but that is merely my view and not relevant to the thread.

At their last financial year, EZY had £1.4 billion of cash so I’m relaxed about them being a going concern!

Why will you lose your job at EZY? That’s always a risk in any trade, and in this industry there are many that have the war wounds over the last 30 years. The problem with EZY is that you’re on zero hours.

The airlines set the criteria. That’s the most sensible thing you’ve said and explains why schemes such as CTC are the best out there currently.

After reading this thread, it is obvious that regardless of anything else, as has been mentioned already, this situation has plenty of current and future subscriber's to the schemes that the likes of EZY, RYR etc., run, and therefore this "snowball" will run and pick up size and momentum until the cash runs dry, or newbies become less keen on the constantly changing offerings from the various offending airlines, and vote with their feet.

It also seems that one important point is generally missing these days, and that is whilst it is affecting the newer entrant to the aviating fold, sooner or later (sooner I suspect) the companies concerned will soon start to erode the pay and conditions of the more senior flight crew, .....because lets face it, logically it makes sense that if these new guys are paying to become an F/O for the likes of EZY because it skips a few rungs on the ladder to a nice, shiny jet, i'm sure the same companies will realise that after a few years of experience, the new "toy" of today's cadets may well be a "nice, shiny command" and whilst they may not be charged for the honour, a reduced package (compared to today) will definitely be on offer......and if exisiting senior crew choose to ignore this situation today, I suspect they will be the first victims to be put out to grass if they refuse to accept a lowering of their own hard earnt T's and C's - to clarify, I don't agree with it at all, but i can see it happening and heaven forbid, the job really is nothing more than an expensive hobby at that point :sad:

Actually that is exactly what is happening now. These airlines will eventually become training schools, FO to CAPT to LTC to TRI to TRE or just a base of choice. Everyone has their little piece of utopia for which they will be willing to sell out to lower t&c's.

From my own point of view I believe it can even be taken back to those who would do anything to fly (whether it be instructing, parachuting, air ambulance, etc) for peanuts to build hours. Current management has just taken what you guys have being doing for decades in GA into the airlines.

It is very frightening to see that even at this scale, supply of new wannabes still outstrips demand! As mentioned above, this only means there is still much more scope for further downward movement in pay! I would suggest this thread would be best viewed in the wannabes section, but fear it will be easily glossed over.

Isn't it ironic (no, in fact, to put it better , down -right insulting) that airlines spend all their time thinking up Compass Tests & other bullsh1t , which is somehow supposed to reflect our ability to see & subsequently react to / deal with a problem. . . . what horse manure. Totally and utterly superfluous. .
Far easier would be to see who accepts the deals on offer, & REJECT anyone thick enough to sign up for it. THAT is a test of judgement.

What a cynical paradox, that the judgement (supposedly) required to do this job, should, if exercised, prevent you even contemplating dipping your toe in the water in the current market.

I recently witnessed 7 guys being offered one of the most insulting contracts/personal financial commitments imaginable to drive 737's around Europe.
On the one hand I was sorry for them/despaired for them.
On the other hand I have to admit to feeling a degree of animosity that several of them were so willing to offer themselves up for something that was so obviously just 100% cr@p.

When you see someone willing to work for nothing, absolutely nothing, or even PAY TO FLY the fare paying public around, the only reaction is :ugh:

Do none of them see that 3mths/ 1 yr down the line with 200-700 hrs on type they are unemployable, because A-not experienced enough & B - not attractive to a company who can find another mug to work for free, or better still, PAY TO WORK.
Gentlemen ( & no doubt some ladies too) some of you are no doubt very nice people , who I may enjoy to spend a day in the cockpit with, nonetheless, I despair & am totally unable to come to terms with your total inability to see the wood for the trees.

WHAT IN HELLS NAME ARE YOU DOING ? ? Did you stop a moment to consider it ?

captplaystation.....couldn't agree more....you echo my sentiments entirely.

In all honesty my current situation ordinarily demands that I must follow lemming-like toward a RYR or EZY Crookfield/Flexi-Screw set-up if i'm to move ahead in my chosen career at this time. All my peers in the main advise I must do this, and they are guys who are very senior in their respective companies (mainstream airlines) and are very knowledgable, and yet inextricably as much as I know this to be sadly true, having flown as an F/o for the last 5 years (albeit admittedly on a very small a/c, AOC) I am at a stage where I have a huge reluctance in lining the pockets of senior management at aforementioned companies in order to further my career. My experience level again is limited (1000hrs+) but nonetheless relevant you would think - when I first started I remember well having conversations along the lines of "get those first 500 hrs, and the rest will naturally occur" etc., etc......again, sadly not so any more - today, I would be in a better situation employment-wise if I was fresh from training with a shiny new blue book and 200 hrs - call me bitter, but how screwy is that ?? not to take anything away from any new cadet from college, as most are superb i'm sure, but the whole situation has got oddly twisted and mixed, and now it falls to money to get you the job, rather than experience and talent. Oh, am not suggesting i'm talented for a second.....i'm not !.

Oh but beazlebub there is another option, you don't have to spend a decade in the "doldrums" of flight instructing etc. The other option is don't do the training. I do not understand why you would throw £100k at flight training in the worst recession in living memory for a poxy flexi contract. Infact you would have to be mental to even contemplate it. It's all very well people saying "ah but there was nothing else on offer", well just don't do the training then. Hold on to your money, even earn some if you can, then when things pick up you'll be better placed to afford it, and also spend less time in the "doldrums" of GA etc. You all had a choice, but you decided to press on with it regardless of the warning signs. These schemes exist for one reason, and one reason only, and that's because the desperate, and dare I say it, blinkered wannabes are prepared to pay it. Narrow Runway & WWW are spot on. It's a crazy, crazy world out there.

1. It's not their money

2. There isn't another option being promoted

3. What's a recession?

I believe anyone having to work for their 100K, anyone with a repayment plan; anyone with any savvy would not be training now. Genuinely.