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-   -   Any recruitment likely at Easy? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/428774-any-recruitment-likely-easy.html)

Dan 98 27th Sep 2010 10:40

Any recruitment likely at Easy?
 
Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on the chances of Easy doing any recruitment for experienced crews in the coming months, given that they are supposedly under crewed now, they must be losing their fair share to the Middle East, BA set to recruit next month, Virgin are rumoured to be looking before the end of the year so Easy will surely lose (as will other airlines of course) some experienced flight deck.

Will these lost crews be replaced with Low houred cadets or will Easy have to replace some of their lost experience?

Would be interested to hear the views of anyone in the know.

Thanks

Flyit Pointit Sortit 27th Sep 2010 10:50

Short answer

YES

Long answer, only for those who have spent some time already operating on the CTC flexi-crew contract or for those who have paid an extortionate amount through PARC aviation/oxford.

Anyone self-respecting pilots who are not willing to line the pockets of CTC need not apply.

regards

FPS

Dan 98 27th Sep 2010 10:53

FPS

Thanks for the upfront info, a shame all the same but not surprised sadly!!

Cheers

Best foot forward 27th Sep 2010 10:58

SO the rumour that easy have had 250 resignations recently aren't true then.

Flyit Pointit Sortit 27th Sep 2010 11:00

That is not to say that things won't change. We have already been operating with insufficient crew as has been evident this year. When the exodus happens, we will no doubt have to start looking outside of first officer "cash cows" and recruit people with experience and self-respect.

here's hoping

250 resignations?? I am not in the know regarding recruitment / resignations or anything "managmenty" however 250 resignations from 1500 pilots in the company gives an instantaneous resignation rate of about 16.5% and in my humble opinion seems excessive. Assuming that most of the resignations would be from F/Os and that they account for half the pilots, say 200 from 750 F/Os that is a resignation rate of 27%. Basic maths with wild assumptions but I would say that it highly unlikely. But, then again, I am only a gash shag line pilot so what do I know??

FPS

Dan 98 27th Sep 2010 11:09

Well time will tell I guess. I'd actually quite like to work for a company like Easy if they ever go back to offering something decent.

I shall not be doing anything that involves taking the lid off the KY Jelly in order to join!!:sad:

pitotheat 27th Sep 2010 12:52

For those holding out hope of DEP at easy I would suggest look elsewhere. There have been rumours that we will be losing huge numbers of pilots to Emirates and others over the last few months simply have not materialized; even after a self inflicted chaotic summer. There are some departures but not enough for the present system of P2F system not to cope with. If this holds out once BA start to recruit is anybodies guess. Dilution of experience in the RHS does not seem to be an important factor at the moment. A long list of suitably qualified SFOs ready for the LHS means that experience levels of newly upgraded Captains has never been greater. This also has the effect of trapping these experienced SFOs as they wait to log 1000+ hours of command time before looking at their next option. Of course when all these reasons start to unwind themselves the company could really struggle but that is not going to happen soon. At the moment there does not seem to be a reason for the company to adjust it's present recruitment policy. That does not mean that it is right but these are my thoughts. I can only imagine the frustration of those pilots waiting for their next step on the ladder at small charter, freighter and flying clubs up and down the country as well as ex military pilots approaching their option points. Reports of Boeing estimating an extra 1M pilots/engineers in the next 10-20 years may be true but the expansion will be on the other side of the earth not in western Europe. Sorry if that seems downbeat but unless you are a newly minted cadet off one of the approved production lines there are very few good prospects available.

SinBin 27th Sep 2010 13:43

And just to clear something up, I am on a Parc contract at the mo, and no I have never spent any money. In fact I take a permanernt position at EZY at the end of October, and I take a huge paycut for that. But yes I agree not a good place to work, and this sort of thing should not happen, but when faced with redundancy earlier this year apart from moving abroard, I was stuck for choices! Please don't confuse an experienced contract pilot with a cadet, wholly different things.

Norman Stanley Fletcher 28th Sep 2010 13:04

SinBin - you may have ideas above yourself. No one forced you to work for easyJet and there are literally hundreds of pilots queuing up to take your place. From your tone you are clearly one of the BMI guys who faced redundancy earlier this year and were fortunate enough to be picked up by easyJet rather than go to the Middle East or onto the dole. For reasons I cannot understand you and some of your colleagues feel that easyJet is now beneath you, despite being offered preferential permanent contracts. You also feel there is some distinction between 'experienced contract pilots' like yourself and 'cadets' who are 'wholly different things'. You are indeed correct - cadets getting permanent contracts are delighted whereas you just hate easyJet and whine and bleat the whole time about how much you hate working here. Presumably you once had to undergo some sort of flying training to reach your current 'Grand Master' status and were once 200 hour pilots, even if only for a day. A number of our 'cadets' are now getting experienced too - many have had several seasons with us. Feel free to leave any time and return to a company that has, tragically, no strategic plan, no future and little hope. I genuinely feel sad that you and your colleagues have not enjoyed your time here and are desperate to leave. Having had so many negative BMI pilots who now want to bite the hand that fed them I will be surprised if we repeat the exercise in the future. I hope the promised land turns out not to be a disastrous graveyard of broken promises and misplaced hope. EasyJet, for all it's failings, is flying loads of brand new Airbuses, full of passengers, to all sorts of varied and interesting destinations. No, it's not perfect, but you would be hard put not to have at least some enjoyment doing it.

Regarding the recruitment issue, I concur with others - there are a lot of flexicrew pilots on the books now and there is a lot of slack in the system. The numbers of resignations are a closely guarded secret, and clearly there are more to come if Emirates, Etihad, BA and Virgin all start recruitment simultaneously. Nonetheless, my best guess is that we have had around 50+ resignations thus far - not enough to generate a problem.

Wee Weasley Welshman 28th Sep 2010 14:59

From my ten aircraft base there has been one - single - FO resignation to go to the Sandpit.

I detect a lot more interest in the impending BA recruitment though.

However, CTC still have a hold pool. Courses in New Zealand have been filled every month and some of the courses are quite large >14. The end result being a very healthy supply of replacement Flexi-cadets. It is highly arousing for the Beancounters when they replace an experienced SFO with a Flexicrew Cadet..

Fair play to CTC, they didn't let any of their hold pool swimmers drown and they seem to have judged the demand side of the curve well enough to avoid a shortfall in supply.


WWW

Bealzebub 28th Sep 2010 15:39

Yes, not just easyjet, but throughout the industry, accountants are are increasingly exploiting the cost savings of replacing an experienced First officer with a much cheaper and contractualy flexible cadet.

As pockets of expansion appear in regional markets, and movement is stimulated as a result of that and some pent up routine turnover, opportunities for change and improvement can only be a good thing in the short term. Overseas markets will seek and pay for the experience, however in the longer term it is hard to imagine that (the same ex-pat') accountants in those companies are not also casting an eye on taking advantage of similar cost reductions.

PAPI-74 28th Sep 2010 16:11

Please explain to me why EasyJet are canx flights daily or leasing in other aircraft, being quite clearly short of pilots to run a proper schedule.
Surely they must begin to recruit soon to avoid anymore damage to their reputation.
Seems at though the bean counters are playing with fire!

SinBin 28th Sep 2010 17:26

NSF, I'm sorry but what is your point? How very conceited. Tell me, you say we got preferential treatment, how long was it until you got a command, were you ahead of people who were less experienced but had been in the company longer? In your opinion then you had an unfair advantage too. If you think that unfair treatment of anyone is acceptable then that's your problem, you clearly have a vendetta against me and my friends and colleagues (and thank goodness you are in the minority as everyone I meet and fly with is very supportive), I hope to God I don't fly with you!

pitotheat 28th Sep 2010 17:32

PAPI-74
The company have got it wrong this summer. However, do not mistake being undercrewed through mismanagement with a perfectly legitimate use of charter services to ease us through peak demands rather than have surplus crews for 10 months of the year. This is how to maximize your assets, reduce costs and remain competitive. In the case of ezy the recruitment ban was introduced by the previous CEO no doubt to further his own performance bonus. The blame therefore lies with the then CEO and the AMB that supported him. So we can not blame the beancounters for the miserable summer that crews, staff and customers have just experienced.
I would not expect the company to make any kneejerk reaction to the last few months by opening up the recruitment process; there is no need. Expansion has been reduced, attrition is manageable (at the moment) and there is a ready supply of Cadets. The training department stepped up to the plate at short notice to carry out far more initial and upgrade courses than was originally planned. There is a small increase in the number of trainers to cope with a more realistic number of courses being run over the next 6-8 months. I am sorry to say that there is no need for recruiting DEPs at the moment. The harsh reality is that the environment, at the moment, favours the management. Whilst supply of newly qualified FOs exceed demand all companies will take advantage. Those that do not are failing their shareholders. This is a basic business principle.

PAPI-74 28th Sep 2010 19:31

Oh well that is OK then. I'll just tell the wife to stock up on Super-Noodles then. I'm sure the kids won't mind till the airlines want experienced pilots once more.;)

757_Driver 28th Sep 2010 20:09


Those that do not are failing their shareholders. This is a basic business principle.
Utter tosh. Thats the blinkered attitude that bought the world to the brink of financial suicide last year. Most modern MBA's and admin wallahs can't see the world outside of their own very narrow and very poor education and experience. There is quite alot more to running a successful and enduring business than an blinkered obsession on the bottom line. Yes you can make a fast buck like this, but it won't last long.

And yes, I do run my own business as well as flying for a living. And no I don't treat people like piggy banks or cash cows.

Mr Man 28th Sep 2010 20:25

Totally agree 757 Driver,well said.I too ran a successful business before becoming involved in aviation,and I'm still shocked on a daily business at the sham attitudes and naivety of aviation management decisions.Not sure why it's quite so bad,maybe because alot of it is made up of pilots or frustrated wannabees,whatever the reason,headless chickens comes to mind.

ZBMAN 28th Sep 2010 21:09


I am sorry to say that there is no need for recruiting DEPs at the moment.
:eek: !!

So we are recruiting cadets by the hundreds, but we cannot recruit experienced pilots? We have never recruited so many cadets. In fact I am wondering if any company has ever hired so many cadets in the whole history of aviation (except Ryanair perhaps, but they are hardly an example to follow ). Are we sure we are not playing with fire here?

Perhaps there is a reason why most "proper" airlines recruit from a number of different experience profiles? It's called balancing the experience levels, it is the cornerstone of aviation recruitment. Once again our orange managers think they know better - I sincerly hope this will not end in tears, as a still need my pilot job until I graduate from my MBA:E

DirectCF 29th Sep 2010 07:40

Another 44 cadets started their type rating last month, and quite a few SFO sent to the command course. This is how they are planning to solve the crew level problem, at least for the winter period.

But rumours say Mrs McCall is upset with the cost of the insurance policy going up because of the low experience level of EZY crew on the flight deck...

Meanwhile, she said the company needs more people, making the share drop by 6% after this announcement on the LSE.

For the moment, the only way in is via CTC or Parc, on the RHS.
If I were an experienced FO working for EZY for 5 or 6 years, I'd be quite upset to see the company hiring DEC to be honest...

First.officer 29th Sep 2010 08:04

......can't deny that reading most of the above is sad indeed - i will admit to having a huge desire to join Easy myself if i made the grade (purely selfish reasons including pay, roster and travelling time etc.) - now from what i read (and hear and interpret myself), it appears that for anyone with any kind of experience (me 860 hrs total, 560 jet/multi-crew), the future is definitely not changing, in fact i personally now believe things will never return to a point where this is a viable career.
As an aside, does anyone recall the conversations you used to have saying the hardest thing to do in this industry is get that first job ?? and how when you accrue approx. 500 hrs multi-crew/jet, that doors then start to open ?? to me, that all seems to have changed and it now appears that unless your a guy/gal with 2000+ hrs with a boeing/airbus rating of some kind (500+hrs on type of course), or a newly minted cadet willing to be raped senseless, the market for anyone inbeetween is effectively - well nothing ??!!! or am i just not looking in the right places ??
So, anyone in a similar position to me agree ?? are you finding a similar situation out there in job land ?? are you looking at other career options ?? just being nosey i guess but curious as well.


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