Yeh similiar position for sure. 1750TT / 1500hrs+on the 737, door shut at Easy, Ryanair, Jet2 don't seem interested, not enough for Emirates and wouldn't work for my family situation anyway, will fall way short on hours for Virgin too. Ba yes but no question competition will be very tough so if you don't get in where do you go??????

A bizarre industry for sure........:(

As you say it used to just be tough at the start, now you get screwed in order to get into the industry and screwed again when you want to move up too, until the flow of "minted cadets" dries up it is not going to change, the mad thing is those same cadets will be in the same position in 2-3yrs with no where to go either apart from VA or BA in the UK or the otherside of the world.......!! There won't be room at those companies for us all!!:{

Good luck

It occurs to me that there are potential problems, being dependent on large numbers of low houred cadets in the short term. When the companies already mentioned, start to recruit in earnest, there will surely be a situation where experience levels start to affect day to day operations.
If sufficient numbers of experienced commanders decide to move elsewhere, you will require replacements who are able to be 'paired' with the low houred cadets.
Whilst there has been a downturn companies have been able to avoid this problem, due to a lot of people 'riding out the storm' but as the jobs market improves and movement starts to happen, I would suggest that minimum experience levels on specific flights will come into play. Therefore the current recruitment policies may well not be as black and white as the 'beancounters' think.

Hey guys and girls don't shoot the messenger. If you read my posts you will be in no doubt that I disagree with what is happening regarding recruitment. If you prefer I could spin you something like "I predict in the next 6 months we will be offering TRSS DEP contracts to 100 pilots in the pool" but I regret to say that this would be wrong, raise too many hopes and may prevent some from making plans based on better quality information. As for dismissing some harsh commercial reality as tosh - well the facts speak for themselves. Recruiting cadets at the moment is the flavour of the month.
I too run a small business in my spare time but there is no way I can translate any of my experiences by simply scaling it up by a factor of a few thousand and I doubt anyone reading these pages could do so either.
Anyway I have said enough in this thread, I am truly sorry if my words have dashed any faint glimmer of hope but if I was in that position I would rather work with as accurate information as possible. Good luck to all those seeking their next step.

First Officer,

I think you make a very good point. When I was starting out it was the same, how could one possibly get a foot on the ladder without at least 1000hrs experience.. How do you get that experience without having placed that foot on the ladder? It appeared a vicious circle, with no way in..

How many other industries would consider that the more experience you gain, the less attractive you are as an employment proposition? Become a Registrar at a hospital, and find yourself costed out of the job by a junior doctor.... mmm

LIkewise if I was to cross a bridge i would want to know that the designer had had a lot of experience before being allowed to be let loose on such a safely critical item...., not just a university graduate.

It is a measure of the industry, and the skills of the existing flight decks that so many "junior pilots" have been absorbed without any major problems..

I wonder how the Accountants and managers would react if they found out that they were being replaced by graduates with no experience who'd just finished their degrees in Accountancy and Management because they could be paid less for their lack of experience......???!!!:E:E

I'm sure they'd understand it made good business sense and was right for the business and the shareholders!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Mmm...I think not!!

CTC will be training 200+ cadets over the winter to cover the 200+ FO and Captain resignations.

This from a senior CTC training captain I flew with back in July; make of it what you will...............

Im going to open a flight training school... 200 x100,000 = nice early retirement.....

Yes, I guess so.

CTC used to be lovingly mocked as standing for, "Captains Taking Cash".

This would now appear to be truer than ever if it is £100,000 per person !

.....sorry if i appear a little too negative, and certainly wasn't reacting to your post Pitot - was just remarking really on my observations with regard to what has happened out there in the marketplace since i started in aviation 10years or so ago. Admittedly i've only been flying commercially for about 3-4 years since i got my first job and in the biz-jet world and at my low level it can take an awful lot of positioning and general messing/buggering about to get the few hours i have today, hence my frustration at how the goal posts have now moved (again ! lol). Still, that's life i guess - and my only problem now is that with the hours i have, it appears that i am worth absolutely bugger all to anyone lol - i appreciate i am lucky to have a job, i genuinely mean that, but the frustration i guess mainly comes from how i was led to believe as we all gained experience, we should generally become more employable in the long-term etc. - seems now it has more to do with whether or not i can get the cash/loan etc. to move my career forward - and i'm not playing that bloody game for starters !
Anyone else out there agree or am i just a plain miserable old git ??

Craggenmore.

Is that 200 including the 40 odd that ctc are type rating at the moment?

If not, that could potentially be 240 inexperienced cadets at easy in around half a year! :eek:

BA in peak late 1990's were taking 240 ish cadets per year. Given that their shorthaul fleet was, and still is, far far smaller than easyJets.. If you contend EZY are playing with fire then BA must have been soaked in petrol dancing around an African campfire smoking a sparkler..


WWW

But what was the experience level like in the LHS at BA at the time? Ours is rapidly going down and down. Some crew pairings at the moment are not appropriate and new skippers have to spell out the risk to crewing to get it changed, sometimes in small words spoken slowly and possibly written in crayon to get through the " it's legal " and " no violations" standard replies!

Ah yes but did BA at the same time prohibit the employment of experienced pilots? (honest question). Also, can we really compare a BA or LH, or AF cadet with one of our cadets? LH or AF for instance have complete control of their cadet's training from initial recruitment to final line check. What control have we got regarding the "final product". I doubt a LH cadet spends 6 months in the winter doing f-all.
I know for a fact that many colleagues find the CTC cadet product inconstitent: some very good, some quite bad (some of our colleagues have become experts in the TOGA-10 manoeuver:}).

Further more to the BA cadet argument, the BA Cadet Pilot Programme displayed complete commitment from BA. Remember those were the days when BA paid for the training...

The selection was extremely rigorous too, and the ability of the pupil to pay had no say in success... either to get on the course or to pass it.

What I dont understand is where are all these people getting the money from? I could understand it when the banks were lending and property equity was rising but now? Surely there can't just be a never ending supply out there.

To all you experienced pilots who are now finding it hard to get an F/O job due to the whole P2F thing, why dont you do something about it. The unions are the ones that can stop this but they won't listen to the unemployed 200 hour fATPL's and the captains out there don't seem to care as its not affecting them (yet). It would appear to me that you guys are the ones that should be rallying the unions against this before you find yourselves being replaced by a profit making cadet.

I don't know the answer to this question.

easyJet also has a current NTC out asking for interested Captains to put their names down for forthcoming Training Captain upgrade courses.

Something is up........

Prophead

What I dont understand is where are all these people getting the money from? I could understand it when the banks were lending and property equity was rising but now? Surely there can't just be a never ending supply out there.

Interestingly I noticed CTC are now launching a "Take Off " scheme which is part-time Modular to spread the cost!!! Why would they do that if enough people were able to afford the full-time course??

As you say where the hell are people getting the money.....:ugh:

757 Man so you run your own business as well as being an aviator.
Sounds like to much time off to me......:\

If they are only just in the process of expanding the training cadre then they will not be in a position to expand the training commitment for something in the region of 6-9 months at a guess whilst the existing trainers train the new intake of trainee-trainers, and all are in a position to take new intake crews into the training system. Sounds like a bit of a game of catch up to me.

CTC
 

So, I must have been imagining the email today.

Upcoming DEC A320 Captain positions, UK & Europe.

Interesting times ahead.