What has BALPA done for you?....
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Thank you Carruthers for outlining precisely some of the reasons why I haven't and won't join, that is not what I could be paying 1.66% Gross for.
As other writers have pointed out not just in postings to this topic, but over many months discussion, other representation is available through personal insurance options or another union.
You pay your money and you take your choice. I respect those that wish to be members and only ask that the shiny silver lapel pin brigade respect those who have chosen a different route.
Rgds
As other writers have pointed out not just in postings to this topic, but over many months discussion, other representation is available through personal insurance options or another union.
You pay your money and you take your choice. I respect those that wish to be members and only ask that the shiny silver lapel pin brigade respect those who have chosen a different route.
Rgds
Join Date: Aug 2000
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On the subject of tax relief on Balpa subs, I have heard several different versions of "you can" vs "you can't".
Speaking personally, every year I put down on my tax return under job expenses the full cost (to me) and I get back on my BS 02/02 form (PAYE Coding Notice) the following:
Note 10 Professional Subscriptions £ 361
under "Your Tax Allowances.
Hope this is of use. Has anybody tried the same with Flight International and got away with it??
Speaking personally, every year I put down on my tax return under job expenses the full cost (to me) and I get back on my BS 02/02 form (PAYE Coding Notice) the following:
Note 10 Professional Subscriptions £ 361
under "Your Tax Allowances.
Hope this is of use. Has anybody tried the same with Flight International and got away with it??
Join Date: Mar 2003
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If BALPA really wants to get away from the past errors of the 'darke' ages it is going to need to to change some of those at the top who still emphasise with him and his discredited policies. Whilst in any democracy the majority rules - if you shaft yor minoriy groups they will cause you grief and it is not the way a civilised advanced society behaves.
It is sad to see such blatant discrimination against non BA mainline groups such as is being conducted against the Turbo prop pilots in BACX - if BALPA continues to repeat the errors of the past it will eventually lose it's influence and become an irrelevance.
Start playing fair and respect seniority for all your members - stop supporting one group of pilots against another and recognise a members rights are the same irrespective of his type flown or employer.
It is sad to see such blatant discrimination against non BA mainline groups such as is being conducted against the Turbo prop pilots in BACX - if BALPA continues to repeat the errors of the past it will eventually lose it's influence and become an irrelevance.
Start playing fair and respect seniority for all your members - stop supporting one group of pilots against another and recognise a members rights are the same irrespective of his type flown or employer.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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BALPA
Good Old Balpa..........You never know when you are going to need them!!!!
Thats what I was told many years back by my first Captain.
Alas I had a problem last year that required some legal advice, No probs I thought just pull out your membership card and dial the magic number.
No problem the nice girl at the end of the phone said........
I will put you through to Mr X our legal Eagle, but he was at lunch, not a problem in this day and age she gave his mobile number.
Nice man on end of the phone said( I WILL CALL YOU BACK)
6 months later still waiting for reply!!!! I am just glad I hadnt run off the end of London City into the Thames.
Same amount of legal cover by the TGWU for less than the price of a take away!!!! So Mr Balpa and your Log you now what to do with my last subsciption!!!!
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Pilots and their collectively funded organizations are the only friends you really have in aviation in good times or bad.
If you're accepting union led conditions without being a member then there's a word for you which any coalminer would be pleased to explain.
And if you haven't stood for an elected position...don't complain. Just replace the word BALPA with the phrase "British pilots working for common goals" or some such and you'll see how inane it is to ask what "THEY" have done for "YOU". What have YOU done for THEM?
Safe Flying
If you're accepting union led conditions without being a member then there's a word for you which any coalminer would be pleased to explain.
And if you haven't stood for an elected position...don't complain. Just replace the word BALPA with the phrase "British pilots working for common goals" or some such and you'll see how inane it is to ask what "THEY" have done for "YOU". What have YOU done for THEM?
Safe Flying
Join Date: Jan 2002
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What have Balpa ever done for me? Nothing, which is why I am no longer a member.
The previous, more enlightened, management at Manx/BRAL introduced a Personal Liability insurance that is apparantly being used by a former employee against the company in an action for wrongful dismissal, or something similar; so it works. Its introduction was reckoned at the time to have been an anti-Balpa move by the company which backfired and recognition followed shortly afterwards.
Balpa has demonstrably NOT been a sucess and we are now worse off than before, having been shafted by the BACC in a couple of little matters as well as suffering pay freezes, which are effectively pay cuts, of course.
It makes a mockery of the meetings arranged by the union before recognition and the vote. Personally, I prefer the dosh and the safety belt of current employment legislation, which seems to offer me at least as much as the union without the arseache. Oh; and the company insurance gives the final comfort.
oscar
The previous, more enlightened, management at Manx/BRAL introduced a Personal Liability insurance that is apparantly being used by a former employee against the company in an action for wrongful dismissal, or something similar; so it works. Its introduction was reckoned at the time to have been an anti-Balpa move by the company which backfired and recognition followed shortly afterwards.
Balpa has demonstrably NOT been a sucess and we are now worse off than before, having been shafted by the BACC in a couple of little matters as well as suffering pay freezes, which are effectively pay cuts, of course.
It makes a mockery of the meetings arranged by the union before recognition and the vote. Personally, I prefer the dosh and the safety belt of current employment legislation, which seems to offer me at least as much as the union without the arseache. Oh; and the company insurance gives the final comfort.
oscar
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Remember the Swissair crash at Athens, 1984 I think it was ?
A DC-8 went off the end of the runway. Greek police removed the 3 crew from the smoking flight-deck and slung them in jail, declaring them to be guilty.
Ifalpa made strong representations without effect, so a worldwide boycott of flights into Greece was organised within a couple of days through Ifalpa's sister organisations like Balpa. The crew were released. It subsequently turned out they were approaching a wet, greasy runway with a significant tail-wind - none of which had been mentioned to the crew - and the infamous drop at the overrun end of RW 16 had not been filled in as Icao had asked of Athens many years before.
THAT is when you need Balpa, and anybody overflying some of our more excitable neighbours like Greece, Spain or France, as well as anybody going further afield, might need Balpa's services then.
A DC-8 went off the end of the runway. Greek police removed the 3 crew from the smoking flight-deck and slung them in jail, declaring them to be guilty.
Ifalpa made strong representations without effect, so a worldwide boycott of flights into Greece was organised within a couple of days through Ifalpa's sister organisations like Balpa. The crew were released. It subsequently turned out they were approaching a wet, greasy runway with a significant tail-wind - none of which had been mentioned to the crew - and the infamous drop at the overrun end of RW 16 had not been filled in as Icao had asked of Athens many years before.
THAT is when you need Balpa, and anybody overflying some of our more excitable neighbours like Greece, Spain or France, as well as anybody going further afield, might need Balpa's services then.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Ah the great myth of our age. We'll get you out of jail boys. Oh really, a collective ban on flying into offending country heh! You couldn't get a collective ban on anything, what utter nonsense. It has been demonstrated time and time again that industrial muscle does not work in this day and age and don't quote the odd national carrier like Air Lingus they merely slowed the inevitable. The old us and them mentality has to go. Despite their presence throughout the industry terms and conditions are changing and not for the better, not out of malice from the employers but out of need in the changing climate. All we get from BALPA though is the rhetoric of the sixties.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I have to admit from someone on the other side of the doors point of view you guys do seem to pay an awful lot for not really a lot. You get hundreds of communications every year in A4 envelopes, which often get filed under BIN.
As cabin crew for BA as you all probably know we are extremely well represented by 2 unions BASSA and Cabin Crew 89. Now I know some say a united front is the best way forward, and there is a lot to be said for it. HOWEVER as has been said you guys seem to be faced with "your either in or you out" choice and thats a bit rubbish.
We were originally only represented by BASSA but then (in 1989) some crew broke away, unhappy with the way BASSA handled things (much like your current situation with BALPA) and formed their own breakaway union CC89.
Now. CC89 is affiliated with the AEEU and as a result more powerfull than BASSA. Membership is still on the rise as people deffect unhappy with their current representation. It also represents lots of other major airlines as well.
The point I'm coming to is we have a CHOICE and we are more than happy with it. SO if you want a choice, why don't you create a choice like we did. A union made for pilots - run by pilots. I realise it may be difficult but if you want to improve your lot it would seem to be your only option.
ALTERNATIVELY why not approach one of the cabin crew unions and try to start off a pilot offshoot branch. It's only an idea but surely it's worth looking into. They'd only be too happy to add your subscriptions to their own and plus they'd probably be lower than what your paying now!!!
Only an idea guys, and I'm no union expert, just seems crap not having a CHOICE.
As cabin crew for BA as you all probably know we are extremely well represented by 2 unions BASSA and Cabin Crew 89. Now I know some say a united front is the best way forward, and there is a lot to be said for it. HOWEVER as has been said you guys seem to be faced with "your either in or you out" choice and thats a bit rubbish.
We were originally only represented by BASSA but then (in 1989) some crew broke away, unhappy with the way BASSA handled things (much like your current situation with BALPA) and formed their own breakaway union CC89.
Now. CC89 is affiliated with the AEEU and as a result more powerfull than BASSA. Membership is still on the rise as people deffect unhappy with their current representation. It also represents lots of other major airlines as well.
The point I'm coming to is we have a CHOICE and we are more than happy with it. SO if you want a choice, why don't you create a choice like we did. A union made for pilots - run by pilots. I realise it may be difficult but if you want to improve your lot it would seem to be your only option.
ALTERNATIVELY why not approach one of the cabin crew unions and try to start off a pilot offshoot branch. It's only an idea but surely it's worth looking into. They'd only be too happy to add your subscriptions to their own and plus they'd probably be lower than what your paying now!!!
Only an idea guys, and I'm no union expert, just seems crap not having a CHOICE.
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Shadowpurser, there was an alternative choice, the Independent Pilots Association (IPA) with their new union, the IPF. Unfortunately, I have received information that the IPA have had notice that their block legal insurance cover, provided by Aircrew Legal Protection Limited, is to be withdrawn.
Controversial, moi?
It is a free world. If the few posting here feel that BALPA is worthless then feel free to pocket your money.
I am pleased to see that recently the rules were changed to prevent people joining the day after they developed a problem and then being given much costly assistance.
No organisation is perfect and the dissatisfaction within the membership reached a peak, rightly or wrongly, during Mr. Darkes tenure and that was dealt with democratically.
I have been a member since the late '80s. Quite a lot of what they have negotiated I have voted against but on balance, in my company, they have done a very good job of representing me and the majority of the workforce.
Some of the wilder accusations are as unfair as they are untrue. I have yet to meet a representative from the current bunch not working hard and diligently for the common good.
I wouldn't do the job, not least because of the personal abuse they continually receive from those who should know better.
Shadowpurser,
BASSA are a dinosaur and ultimately are going to cause a great deal of grief for all of us. Their Arthur Scargill school of operarting is way past its sell-by date. Their newsletters are a disgrace, in content and attitude. CC89 seem more sensible but having two unions is in itself a disaster, especially as BASSA attack CC89 at every opportunity.
Ask yourself if you would be better off in a company with or without BALPA representation. If the answer is better without then keep it quiet because there will be a flood of applicants to join your altruistic management's version of Utopia!
I'll stick with BALPA thanks and happily pay my 1%. I think it is good value.
As I said it is a free world.
I am pleased to see that recently the rules were changed to prevent people joining the day after they developed a problem and then being given much costly assistance.
No organisation is perfect and the dissatisfaction within the membership reached a peak, rightly or wrongly, during Mr. Darkes tenure and that was dealt with democratically.
I have been a member since the late '80s. Quite a lot of what they have negotiated I have voted against but on balance, in my company, they have done a very good job of representing me and the majority of the workforce.
Some of the wilder accusations are as unfair as they are untrue. I have yet to meet a representative from the current bunch not working hard and diligently for the common good.
I wouldn't do the job, not least because of the personal abuse they continually receive from those who should know better.
Shadowpurser,
BASSA are a dinosaur and ultimately are going to cause a great deal of grief for all of us. Their Arthur Scargill school of operarting is way past its sell-by date. Their newsletters are a disgrace, in content and attitude. CC89 seem more sensible but having two unions is in itself a disaster, especially as BASSA attack CC89 at every opportunity.
Ask yourself if you would be better off in a company with or without BALPA representation. If the answer is better without then keep it quiet because there will be a flood of applicants to join your altruistic management's version of Utopia!
I'll stick with BALPA thanks and happily pay my 1%. I think it is good value.
As I said it is a free world.
Last edited by M.Mouse; 4th Mar 2003 at 13:56.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Once again the tired old argument that things would be worse without us, not in my experience. The companies will do as they wish or must regardless, pilots unions will never have the power or clout of the large public sector or even cabin crew unions simply because most pilots understand that in the long run being militant will not work and ultimately will not take any form of industrial action. Since recognition things in my company have got worse.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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To answer the question!
1. Got me duty pay
2. Got me paid for roster disruptions
3. Got me a good deal if working on a day off
Therefore they have literally earned their dues
1. Got me duty pay
2. Got me paid for roster disruptions
3. Got me a good deal if working on a day off
Therefore they have literally earned their dues
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Well when I first joined balpa colleagues told me it was a waste of money. However I thought I would give it a go and see how they would represent me when I needed them. Well I've been very disappointed as they negotiated me a three year pay freeze and with inflation that's a 7% pay cut!! Nice one balpa that's really worth 40 odd quid a month subscriptions, so I have given myself a1% pay increase thank you very much. The bottom line is unless you are in BA mainline then they are pretty ineffective.
Just a note to brain fade, you got flight duty pay but lost your night stop allowance and the company are now saying they want to stop disruption payments cause they can't afford it now they've given our big brothers a 20% pay increase. Let's see what the mighty balpa will do about that.
Just a note to brain fade, you got flight duty pay but lost your night stop allowance and the company are now saying they want to stop disruption payments cause they can't afford it now they've given our big brothers a 20% pay increase. Let's see what the mighty balpa will do about that.
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In less than a month's time everyone will have a fairly decisive answer on the poster's original question when Mr O'Leary closes down Buzz.
How the unions, not just BALPA, react will be interesting and will also allow a basis of comparison on the effectiveness, or not, of representation.
Let's just hope that they can prevent such huge job losses: 600 airline jobs in one fell swoop. As effective as Al Qaeda !
How the unions, not just BALPA, react will be interesting and will also allow a basis of comparison on the effectiveness, or not, of representation.
Let's just hope that they can prevent such huge job losses: 600 airline jobs in one fell swoop. As effective as Al Qaeda !
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I know this is a rumour forum Danny but the IPA will always offer insurance. In practice it is fairly inexpensive, the insurance companies very rarely have to pay out. One of the better bets from their point of view. Liability insurance of course is another thing, but the companies by law have to provide that. BALPA doesn't, the only organisations that do are professional bodies such as the medical associations that cover their members in private practice.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Grasscutter.
You are totally correct about the loss of the night stop allowance. However we had no night stop duties.
Therefore these days I'm 200-300 /month better off. Now I'm not everyone, but, thats what they've done for ME.
Hear what you say re disruption tho- guess we'll have to wait and see.
keep them mowing blades sharp!
You are totally correct about the loss of the night stop allowance. However we had no night stop duties.
Therefore these days I'm 200-300 /month better off. Now I'm not everyone, but, thats what they've done for ME.
Hear what you say re disruption tho- guess we'll have to wait and see.
keep them mowing blades sharp!