What has BALPA done for you?....
Thread Starter
Does BALPA really cost 1%???
Everyone quotes the cost of BALPA membership as being 1% but in reality it is an astonishing 1.66%.
The reason, I believe, - they charge a 1% monthly fee of a GROSS annual salary but an individual pays this from their NET monthly salary!
For example: on a basic salary of 60K I was quoted a premium of £60 per month, which sure enough, represents 1%. But this £60 comes out of my take-home pay and, as the contributions do not attract any tax-relief, to achieve this £60 I have to pay £40 tax.
So in reality, my annual membership would of cost me 12 lots of £60 + £40 i.e. £1200 or in percentage terms 1.66% of my £60K salary!!
Or have I got this wrong?
The reason, I believe, - they charge a 1% monthly fee of a GROSS annual salary but an individual pays this from their NET monthly salary!
For example: on a basic salary of 60K I was quoted a premium of £60 per month, which sure enough, represents 1%. But this £60 comes out of my take-home pay and, as the contributions do not attract any tax-relief, to achieve this £60 I have to pay £40 tax.
So in reality, my annual membership would of cost me 12 lots of £60 + £40 i.e. £1200 or in percentage terms 1.66% of my £60K salary!!
Or have I got this wrong?
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What you have gotten totally wrong is planting this in REPORTING POINTS which is for Rumours & News. Questions would be far better. Now some poor moderator with better things to do on a rainy weekend is going to have to magic this thread elsewhere.
As to your QUESTION, this is not exactly the Transport & General Workers Union with millions of members. BALPA will struggle to achieve 10,000 sometime in the next 20 years, yet still has a significant infrastructure to maintain if it is to have any effect. The choice is in front of you- buy the goods or don't, but bleating about the cost achieves nothing. If you want a half price organisation for half price service, go elsewhere.
As to your QUESTION, this is not exactly the Transport & General Workers Union with millions of members. BALPA will struggle to achieve 10,000 sometime in the next 20 years, yet still has a significant infrastructure to maintain if it is to have any effect. The choice is in front of you- buy the goods or don't, but bleating about the cost achieves nothing. If you want a half price organisation for half price service, go elsewhere.
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You have the choice to join and pay yer 1%, or not join. Membership is inevitably very limited- you are not going to find subs of 35p/week with such a small specialised membership base. If you find it worth 1% of your PRE TAX pay to have the benefits, then join. If not, don't. Bleeding achieves nothing. Sorted?
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The 1% that is paid by the individual has to streatch in many directions.
The legal department who looks after the interests of those unfortunate few who are being victimised, or who are fighting for their professional survival, is a very costly department spending large sums for advice and sometimes litigation.
The running cost of the Heathrow and Gatwick offices, the salaries and benefits of their employees etc. (No office north of the Watford Gap yet though)
Like many members I pay my 1% monthly and seem to be forgoten in the rush to the bank.
The company for whom I work has no PLC, no acknowledgement of BALPA and a growing weariness of paying so much for so little, infact more people are considering leaving BALPA because of the costs than those who wish to join. (TGWU and IPF look out here we come)
Why should we pay so much of our salary when others offer much the same service for less.
The old system recently changed gave a discount of 0.1% for non PLC companies, why so little a reduction the true cost of running a PLC is much higher, taking into consideration the expenses of the members travelling to and from the meetings, their food whilst there etc.
I suggest that if BALPA wish to keep their members that the introductory half price membership be expanded to include members who's company do not recognise BALPA or whose workforce do not wish to to be represented by BALPA.
As to the question of tax relief upon subscriptions, this is where BALPA can help its members, by directly agreeing with the tax office that subscriptions are a deductable expence.
But what has BALPA done for its membership since various tax offices reduced the allowance that was in place with several companies ?.
Perhaps it is better to approach the tax office individually, I should like comments from individuals on this subject.
I hear that TGWU and IPF subscriptions are allowed against tax.
For those members of BALPA the union is yours and should reflect the wishes of the members and not just a few individuals.
Vote for your PLC and ensure that their views reflect the wishes of your members.
The legal department who looks after the interests of those unfortunate few who are being victimised, or who are fighting for their professional survival, is a very costly department spending large sums for advice and sometimes litigation.
The running cost of the Heathrow and Gatwick offices, the salaries and benefits of their employees etc. (No office north of the Watford Gap yet though)
Like many members I pay my 1% monthly and seem to be forgoten in the rush to the bank.
The company for whom I work has no PLC, no acknowledgement of BALPA and a growing weariness of paying so much for so little, infact more people are considering leaving BALPA because of the costs than those who wish to join. (TGWU and IPF look out here we come)
Why should we pay so much of our salary when others offer much the same service for less.
The old system recently changed gave a discount of 0.1% for non PLC companies, why so little a reduction the true cost of running a PLC is much higher, taking into consideration the expenses of the members travelling to and from the meetings, their food whilst there etc.
I suggest that if BALPA wish to keep their members that the introductory half price membership be expanded to include members who's company do not recognise BALPA or whose workforce do not wish to to be represented by BALPA.
As to the question of tax relief upon subscriptions, this is where BALPA can help its members, by directly agreeing with the tax office that subscriptions are a deductable expence.
But what has BALPA done for its membership since various tax offices reduced the allowance that was in place with several companies ?.
Perhaps it is better to approach the tax office individually, I should like comments from individuals on this subject.
I hear that TGWU and IPF subscriptions are allowed against tax.
For those members of BALPA the union is yours and should reflect the wishes of the members and not just a few individuals.
Vote for your PLC and ensure that their views reflect the wishes of your members.
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My tax office recently informed me that I cannot claim BALPA membership against tax as they are not on their list of approved societies/ organisations. Anyone know any differently?
PP
PP
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As per Pilot Pete.
Birmingham Victoria tax office told me the same thing. I can't see how the IPF can get a tax concession & BALPA can't unless the IPF facts are incorrect?
NOTSO, BALPA works very well for some companies, such as BA. If you are employed by such a company and are in BALPA you will get a completely different service to what my company has received from them.
We are a BA franchaise with BALPA recognition and over the last 2 years we haven't even received a pay increase in line with inflation
We don't expect to receive one in the near future either. We were told that we couldn't operate our 737's where we would like to because we would be taking away jobs from BA pilots (under the SCOPE agreement). We have had absolutely minimal BALPA input even even with redundancies and demotions. Many of the pilots are quitting BALPA due to failure to do a sausage. Negotiations appear to be through our unofficial pilot reps.
So NOTSO, I hear what your saying and appreciate that we can all take it or leave it but at the end of the day from where you are sitting BALPA is a useful aid. For us, we can not even say that its performance is poor, for it has done nothing BUT it is ultimately 'Hobsons Choice'.
There I've said it got it off my chest, I shall say no more about BALPA performance.
Back to the thread.
Birmingham Victoria tax office told me the same thing. I can't see how the IPF can get a tax concession & BALPA can't unless the IPF facts are incorrect?
NOTSO, BALPA works very well for some companies, such as BA. If you are employed by such a company and are in BALPA you will get a completely different service to what my company has received from them.
We are a BA franchaise with BALPA recognition and over the last 2 years we haven't even received a pay increase in line with inflation
We don't expect to receive one in the near future either. We were told that we couldn't operate our 737's where we would like to because we would be taking away jobs from BA pilots (under the SCOPE agreement). We have had absolutely minimal BALPA input even even with redundancies and demotions. Many of the pilots are quitting BALPA due to failure to do a sausage. Negotiations appear to be through our unofficial pilot reps.So NOTSO, I hear what your saying and appreciate that we can all take it or leave it but at the end of the day from where you are sitting BALPA is a useful aid. For us, we can not even say that its performance is poor, for it has done nothing BUT it is ultimately 'Hobsons Choice'.
There I've said it got it off my chest, I shall say no more about BALPA performance.
Back to the thread.
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What has BALPA done for you?....
Ok Guys
BALPA reps and everyone who wishes to talk about this.
What does BALPA do for you and is it worth the amount you pay.
Im a non member and didn't join for one reason. I have never seen any use for them. Currently in my job they have not voiced the pilots concerns and there are a lot of annoyed people with the outcome of recent actions.
Any thoughts....
BALPA reps and everyone who wishes to talk about this.
What does BALPA do for you and is it worth the amount you pay.
Im a non member and didn't join for one reason. I have never seen any use for them. Currently in my job they have not voiced the pilots concerns and there are a lot of annoyed people with the outcome of recent actions.
Any thoughts....
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By the time you think they might have been of some use to you it will be too late.
You should join because there is no other pilot representative body with anything like the same influence. If your local council has not represented you well enough, then you should stand for election, get on the local council and then you'll have the influence and authority to change things for the better.
You'll achieve precisely nowt by standing on the sidelines griping about how useless you think they are and how they're not worth the money - there's plenty of people like that and guess what they achieve.
You should join because there is no other pilot representative body with anything like the same influence. If your local council has not represented you well enough, then you should stand for election, get on the local council and then you'll have the influence and authority to change things for the better.
You'll achieve precisely nowt by standing on the sidelines griping about how useless you think they are and how they're not worth the money - there's plenty of people like that and guess what they achieve.
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If you want a half price organisation for half price service, go elsewhere
Notso Just heard that the flight Engineers at BA have been
told BALPA will no longer represent them even though
they have been paying the full 1% for many years.
The union does a grand job for people who are not
members (job seekers conferences and the like) It should
take a long hard look at itself and start listening to those
who pay the wages.
BALPA has lost lots of credibility and membership recently,
its not exactly difficult to see why.
Your attitude sums them up.
Notso Just heard that the flight Engineers at BA have been
told BALPA will no longer represent them even though
they have been paying the full 1% for many years.
The union does a grand job for people who are not
members (job seekers conferences and the like) It should
take a long hard look at itself and start listening to those
who pay the wages.
BALPA has lost lots of credibility and membership recently,
its not exactly difficult to see why.
Your attitude sums them up.
A lot of their good work is necessarily behind the scenes.
Personally they have given good advice about employment contracts, got a bullying manager off my back and successfully resolved a legal issue in my favour.
In my experience their judgement is pretty good and they have a lot of experience to draw on. Now, the tricky bit is that they won't necessarily leap out and defend you. You have to push and prod them sometimes. Equally, they will only take on a legal case if they thing you have a greater than equal chance of winning. This is why you might need some legal insurance to completely cover you.
However, there are some situations where BALPA really are the only body that can deal effectivley for you.
For whatever reason there seem to be more tricky issues surrounding pilot employment these days. Don't wait until you have a problem to join.
Just think, your Captain taxis on to stand in driving rain and you manage to hit a GPU. You are just about to get your command and the company wants to know why you didn't tell the Captain to park short . . .
It happens!
Personally they have given good advice about employment contracts, got a bullying manager off my back and successfully resolved a legal issue in my favour.
In my experience their judgement is pretty good and they have a lot of experience to draw on. Now, the tricky bit is that they won't necessarily leap out and defend you. You have to push and prod them sometimes. Equally, they will only take on a legal case if they thing you have a greater than equal chance of winning. This is why you might need some legal insurance to completely cover you.
However, there are some situations where BALPA really are the only body that can deal effectivley for you.
For whatever reason there seem to be more tricky issues surrounding pilot employment these days. Don't wait until you have a problem to join.
Just think, your Captain taxis on to stand in driving rain and you manage to hit a GPU. You are just about to get your command and the company wants to know why you didn't tell the Captain to park short . . .
It happens!
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BALPA does seem to be very very good at representing the interests of BA mainline pilots.
I have been a member of BALPA for several years and have found thier legal cover quite useful but confess to feeling that from a workforce point of view they are a little bit of a 'toothless tiger'.
We definately need to have a united front, but from my own recent experiences I have found BALPA rhetoric not enough to justify my substantial subscription.
I have been a member of BALPA for several years and have found thier legal cover quite useful but confess to feeling that from a workforce point of view they are a little bit of a 'toothless tiger'.
We definately need to have a united front, but from my own recent experiences I have found BALPA rhetoric not enough to justify my substantial subscription.
Uncle Pete
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Pilot assistance at grievance and disciplinary hearings may be worth a mention here. The Employment Relations Act 1999 and the ACAS code of practice state:-
A worker has a statutory right to be accompanied at a disciplinary or grievance hearing by a single companion who is either a:-
1. Fellow worker
2. A full-time official employed by a trade union or a lay trade
union official
However, workers may have contractual rights to be accompanied by persons other than those listed above, for instance a partner, spouse or legal representative.
Problems arise if you cannot get a colleague to assist you and you do not belong to a trade union. You are walking into a hearing unassisted and emotionally involved and VERY vulnerable. You may have the right to be accompanied by a legal representative but this is unlikely.
Perhaps the time to think about some form of trade union membership is now rather than later. It doesn't have to be BALPA or the IPA/IPF.
MP
A worker has a statutory right to be accompanied at a disciplinary or grievance hearing by a single companion who is either a:-
1. Fellow worker
2. A full-time official employed by a trade union or a lay trade
union official
However, workers may have contractual rights to be accompanied by persons other than those listed above, for instance a partner, spouse or legal representative.
Problems arise if you cannot get a colleague to assist you and you do not belong to a trade union. You are walking into a hearing unassisted and emotionally involved and VERY vulnerable. You may have the right to be accompanied by a legal representative but this is unlikely.
Perhaps the time to think about some form of trade union membership is now rather than later. It doesn't have to be BALPA or the IPA/IPF.
MP
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In strict answer to the thread topic:
They ensured that I didn't get a pay rise in my last company until I stopped paying my subs and got a 1.66% rise, and they've done nothing for me in my present employ because I'm no longer daft enough to be fleeced by a clueless bunch of individuals who wouldn't know a fair deal if it ran naked across the street in front of them.
In my opinion, they are doing more harm than good to all in the industry, BA pilots included (uncomfortable times for those on proper three-crew aircraft for a while), and would be best served by admitting their shortcomings and finding something productive to do with their time. After all, a change is as good as a rest.
Sadly, our 'profession' is now in its death throes and we have no-one but ourselves to blame, for being so lilly-livered in the first instance, and for placing our trust in half-baked trade unions in the second.
On the other hand, if anyone fancies backing me for General Secretary and matching my current salary, I'd love to give it a go, but there would be changes!
They ensured that I didn't get a pay rise in my last company until I stopped paying my subs and got a 1.66% rise, and they've done nothing for me in my present employ because I'm no longer daft enough to be fleeced by a clueless bunch of individuals who wouldn't know a fair deal if it ran naked across the street in front of them.
In my opinion, they are doing more harm than good to all in the industry, BA pilots included (uncomfortable times for those on proper three-crew aircraft for a while), and would be best served by admitting their shortcomings and finding something productive to do with their time. After all, a change is as good as a rest.
Sadly, our 'profession' is now in its death throes and we have no-one but ourselves to blame, for being so lilly-livered in the first instance, and for placing our trust in half-baked trade unions in the second.
On the other hand, if anyone fancies backing me for General Secretary and matching my current salary, I'd love to give it a go, but there would be changes!
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But of course you need to pay lots you lucky people. After all you have to support a Gen Sec who is the highest paid in the union business, even more than Mr Gilchrist (firemans union) who spends £817 on a curry. Pay for those junkets in Rio, elaborate Xmas balls, top hotels for union meetings and of course meet the costs of a legal system that is selective in what cases or who it will support. Any 'victimisation' of its officials of course coming top of the list. This bunch dwell in the past, in fondly recalled industrial practices of the 60's now history, as is their effectiveness in this day and age. A lot of advantages in union representation but you can get a better balance much cheaper elsewhere.