terms and conditions: easy vs. dba
Thread Starter
terms and conditions: easy vs. dba
OK, maybe some easyJet pilots can help me here:
I fly for Deutsche BA (dba) in Germany.
As you know easyJet´s decision to either buy dba or not is expected soon. They are telling us:
Either accept easyJets terms and conditions or we´ll walk away.
So far the german alpa has refused to accept these easyJet conditions.
We (dba/alpa) currently have the following agreement (contract):
min. 11 days OFF/month
max. 850 hrs/year
max. 85 hrs./months (89hrs. possible 3 times a year)
max. 5 days work in a row
max. 5 sectors/day
we have a seniority system in place and are strongly represented by the german alpa.
In comparison: What does the new easyJet/BALPA deal look like?
I understand it´s up to 7 days ON, as low as 2 days OFF, up to 6 sector days, max. legal flight times, no monthly hrs. limit, no seniority....
Also, easy management seems to be widely mistrusted. Am I wrong?
What´s your guess: Is R.W. going to buy dba...?
Should he, or not...?
Should we stick to our T&C´s and risk not being bought?
Would that be such a bad thing?
Any comments greatly appreciated!
I fly for Deutsche BA (dba) in Germany.
As you know easyJet´s decision to either buy dba or not is expected soon. They are telling us:
Either accept easyJets terms and conditions or we´ll walk away.
So far the german alpa has refused to accept these easyJet conditions.
We (dba/alpa) currently have the following agreement (contract):
min. 11 days OFF/month
max. 850 hrs/year
max. 85 hrs./months (89hrs. possible 3 times a year)
max. 5 days work in a row
max. 5 sectors/day
we have a seniority system in place and are strongly represented by the german alpa.
In comparison: What does the new easyJet/BALPA deal look like?
I understand it´s up to 7 days ON, as low as 2 days OFF, up to 6 sector days, max. legal flight times, no monthly hrs. limit, no seniority....
Also, easy management seems to be widely mistrusted. Am I wrong?
What´s your guess: Is R.W. going to buy dba...?
Should he, or not...?
Should we stick to our T&C´s and risk not being bought?
Would that be such a bad thing?
Any comments greatly appreciated!
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As a pilot who has worked for an airline that has been taken over by another I think I am right in saying that Easyjet cannot impose their terms and conditions on DBA pilots, in other words your terms and conditions cannot be altered unless by aggreement, any pension rights however are a different matter and apparently are not protected.
In my case the company concerned offered better terms and conditions to which we all agreed to sign up to.
In my case the company concerned offered better terms and conditions to which we all agreed to sign up to.
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Just a small correction:
The maximum flying hours have been changed to 900 hours per year as a goodwill sign to easyjet.
However, the "proposal" for the future T&C under easy management was unacceptable.
The term "proposal" is a bit misleading, because RW said, either accept it the way it is or easy will walk away. Nice way of negotiating with people who- under the orange culture- "make the difference".
The maximum flying hours have been changed to 900 hours per year as a goodwill sign to easyjet.
However, the "proposal" for the future T&C under easy management was unacceptable.
The term "proposal" is a bit misleading, because RW said, either accept it the way it is or easy will walk away. Nice way of negotiating with people who- under the orange culture- "make the difference".
Last edited by Pittsle; 10th Nov 2003 at 22:36.
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Stick with your T&C's 733 Driver.
British pilots are very apathetic, couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
If RDW doesn't buy DBA I hear there are other buyers waiting in the wings.
But Germany features strongly in easyJet's plan and he needs a company like DBA to enter the market.
Use that as leverage....
British pilots are very apathetic, couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
If RDW doesn't buy DBA I hear there are other buyers waiting in the wings.
But Germany features strongly in easyJet's plan and he needs a company like DBA to enter the market.
Use that as leverage....
Thread Starter
pressure is rising
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts.
For those who are interested a quick update of the current situation:
source: financial times online
COMPANIES & FINANCE INTERNATIONAL: EasyJet talks on DBA may collapse
By Jens Flottau in Munich
Financial Times; Feb 10, 2003
The takeover of Deutsche BA, the lossmaking German subsidiary of British Airways, by Easyjet, Europe's largest low-cost airline, is understood to be on the brink of collapse after failure to resume crucial talks with pilots.
Easyjet and the pilots of DBA have not yet been able to agree on the new wage contracts, which are based on conditions of employment for low-cost carriers.
At the same time, Easyjet is not prepared to enter into further negotiations and is understood to have stopped the meetings of both parties.
At asupervisory board meeting on Friday, Easyjet is expected to discuss the situation in the hopes of coming to a decision.
Easyjet acquired the option to take over DBA last summer as a way of breaking into the German market.
A takeover of DBA, the second-largest German scheduled airline, would give Easyjet a foothold in the German market where competition is rapidly intensifying in the low-cost sector.
The deal to sell DBA, which currently operates chiefly on domestic German routes, is worth between €30m ($32.5m) and €46m depending on when Easyjet exercises its option.
The decision on whether to go ahead depends on the outcome of negotiations with the Vereinigung Cockpit, the pilot's union.
"We want to make it very clear to you [the pilots] that DBA has no alternative looming in the background and that a withdrawal of Easyjet's option would seriously endanger every single job at DBA," said Martin Wyatt, the new chief executive of DBA who took over from Adrian Hunt in January, in an internal memo to pilots seen by FT Deutschland.
In the light of DBA's deteriorating financial health, the odds for a deal have come under increasing threat. In the internal memo Mr Wyatt also announced a "dramatic deterioration of results." Last week DBA announced that it had to reduce its capacity from 16 to 14 planes and cut 500 flights from its schedule in February and March due to weak demand.
DBA, which has a workforce of 860 and a fleet of 16 Boeing 737-300s, flies seven German domestic routes from Munich and Berlin and is launching a service from Hamburg to Nice at the end of March.
For those who are interested a quick update of the current situation:
source: financial times online
COMPANIES & FINANCE INTERNATIONAL: EasyJet talks on DBA may collapse
By Jens Flottau in Munich
Financial Times; Feb 10, 2003
The takeover of Deutsche BA, the lossmaking German subsidiary of British Airways, by Easyjet, Europe's largest low-cost airline, is understood to be on the brink of collapse after failure to resume crucial talks with pilots.
Easyjet and the pilots of DBA have not yet been able to agree on the new wage contracts, which are based on conditions of employment for low-cost carriers.
At the same time, Easyjet is not prepared to enter into further negotiations and is understood to have stopped the meetings of both parties.
At asupervisory board meeting on Friday, Easyjet is expected to discuss the situation in the hopes of coming to a decision.
Easyjet acquired the option to take over DBA last summer as a way of breaking into the German market.
A takeover of DBA, the second-largest German scheduled airline, would give Easyjet a foothold in the German market where competition is rapidly intensifying in the low-cost sector.
The deal to sell DBA, which currently operates chiefly on domestic German routes, is worth between €30m ($32.5m) and €46m depending on when Easyjet exercises its option.
The decision on whether to go ahead depends on the outcome of negotiations with the Vereinigung Cockpit, the pilot's union.
"We want to make it very clear to you [the pilots] that DBA has no alternative looming in the background and that a withdrawal of Easyjet's option would seriously endanger every single job at DBA," said Martin Wyatt, the new chief executive of DBA who took over from Adrian Hunt in January, in an internal memo to pilots seen by FT Deutschland.
In the light of DBA's deteriorating financial health, the odds for a deal have come under increasing threat. In the internal memo Mr Wyatt also announced a "dramatic deterioration of results." Last week DBA announced that it had to reduce its capacity from 16 to 14 planes and cut 500 flights from its schedule in February and March due to weak demand.
DBA, which has a workforce of 860 and a fleet of 16 Boeing 737-300s, flies seven German domestic routes from Munich and Berlin and is launching a service from Hamburg to Nice at the end of March.
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I work for easy - not at Luton - and my working pattern is more like:
6 on 3 off. Sometimes I have a late finish on my 6th day, but usually means I've had the day time free, or an early start on my first day, with a midday finish. So whilst you could say that's virtually a 7/2 deal, it doesn't happen too often and I don't even worry about it! Plenty of people start work early on a Monday morning.
I have a mix of 2 and 4 sector days. The fours can be short flights, or a Spain and back followed by a CGG or AMS and back. These are the worst but they don't happen all the time! I have had 1 six sector day per month since last November.
I have never had to go into discretion, and a number of captains refuse anyway, but we do work max flight duty hours - though not all the time!
Sure, I'd like to work 2 sector days, 5 on three off, no early starts and no late finishes. Life at easy isn't 'cushy' (which for those whose first language isn't English, means something like soft and easy), but it is secure, standards are high, and safety overrides commerce everytime. It's not all bad.
Clear Right, you are right! British pilots don't fight their corner very well, and despite my comments above I hope we do improve conditions at easy. I know others, particularly at Luton, have had different experiences, but these are mine.
6 on 3 off. Sometimes I have a late finish on my 6th day, but usually means I've had the day time free, or an early start on my first day, with a midday finish. So whilst you could say that's virtually a 7/2 deal, it doesn't happen too often and I don't even worry about it! Plenty of people start work early on a Monday morning.
I have a mix of 2 and 4 sector days. The fours can be short flights, or a Spain and back followed by a CGG or AMS and back. These are the worst but they don't happen all the time! I have had 1 six sector day per month since last November.
I have never had to go into discretion, and a number of captains refuse anyway, but we do work max flight duty hours - though not all the time!
Sure, I'd like to work 2 sector days, 5 on three off, no early starts and no late finishes. Life at easy isn't 'cushy' (which for those whose first language isn't English, means something like soft and easy), but it is secure, standards are high, and safety overrides commerce everytime. It's not all bad.
Clear Right, you are right! British pilots don't fight their corner very well, and despite my comments above I hope we do improve conditions at easy. I know others, particularly at Luton, have had different experiences, but these are mine.
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I too work for easyJet and I have grave reservations about the 6 on 3 off scenario. Over the last year I have had the seventh day (or the last of the 3) impinged upon about 50% of the time. A block of work usually starts on an early report - often 6am so as to keep the previous day a legal day off, and the last day is a late finish which may or may not impinge upon the first day off.
As for the volume of work, it varies according to the base that you are at and the staffing levels at any given time. If the base is up to complement, then the roster can be OK, if not, then it is hell. This month my roster is not worth the paper it is written on. The number of sectors can vary according to the work pattern at your base: most bases have a mixture of flying and 4 secort days are the norm, whereas BFS for instance has a large number of short sectors and you may fly up to 100 sectors a month.
Please do not believe the management speak when they say that people matter: their words are cheap, whereas all the evidence shows that they do not give a sh1t about the staff.
As for the volume of work, it varies according to the base that you are at and the staffing levels at any given time. If the base is up to complement, then the roster can be OK, if not, then it is hell. This month my roster is not worth the paper it is written on. The number of sectors can vary according to the work pattern at your base: most bases have a mixture of flying and 4 secort days are the norm, whereas BFS for instance has a large number of short sectors and you may fly up to 100 sectors a month.
Please do not believe the management speak when they say that people matter: their words are cheap, whereas all the evidence shows that they do not give a sh1t about the staff.
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EasyJet- No, thanks!
This proves, that the old saying is still valid:
If they don´t agree to put down their word in ink and sign it, it is worth S.H.I.T.
DBA-pilots: watch your decisions and think twice!
Emiliano Zapata said: It is better to die on your feet than to keep living on your knees!
If they don´t agree to put down their word in ink and sign it, it is worth S.H.I.T.
DBA-pilots: watch your decisions and think twice!
Emiliano Zapata said: It is better to die on your feet than to keep living on your knees!
