Crew food at easyJet
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I can hardly believe I am reading this! A meal allowance, whether taxed or not, in lieu of 'adequate sustenance' will never work with some pilots. Some that I have flown with (over many years in this game) have been so tight that they would NEVER buy their own food when away on a trip. If the airline hadn't thrown them a few scraps I am sure that they would have gone into a coma rather than spend their own money.
Surely the operator should have an obligation to provide at least snacks every four hours or so? Even my dog refuses to do guard duty (i.e. goes back to sleep) if I don't feed her.
Where does BALPA, the UK CAA and the other Euro authorities stand on this? Maybe the Swiss do stand up for themselves while the rest of you are just rolling over on what should be fought on safety grounds, not financial.
Surely the operator should have an obligation to provide at least snacks every four hours or so? Even my dog refuses to do guard duty (i.e. goes back to sleep) if I don't feed her.
Where does BALPA, the UK CAA and the other Euro authorities stand on this? Maybe the Swiss do stand up for themselves while the rest of you are just rolling over on what should be fought on safety grounds, not financial.
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Fruitbatflyer
The UK government and their agents the CAA stand where ever the UK airlines and management tell them to stand. The UK CAA are like a poddle in the control of the UK airline industry.
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Erm, the deal that has fallen on my door step tells me that I must pay £1,100 per annum for this so called crew food. Additionally I will lose most of my tax free portion of my flight pay (pay tax on 70% rather than 30% with Go) So I am now paying twice for something I don't want. Can someone also tell me why pilots are expected to pay and not cabin crew ?
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Crew Food
Because nasty Ray says so.
So when you have paid for you crew food and it does not turn up what are you going to do? Flights can't be delayed because the crew food doesn't turn up hey CURRUTHERS?
But this will not happen in LPL.
The whole idea is badly thought out.
So when you have paid for you crew food and it does not turn up what are you going to do? Flights can't be delayed because the crew food doesn't turn up hey CURRUTHERS?
But this will not happen in LPL.
The whole idea is badly thought out.
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The bottom line is that human beings don't perform properly in the short term without proper food and their health suffers in the long term. Proper food means a hot, nourishing, fat and sugar controlled meal, plus adequate time in which to eat it.
The other bottom line is that the airline environment often does'nt permit the self-provision of proper food. Proper food MUST be provided, therefore. Failure to provide said food MUST result in a delayed flight. Rigid rules MUST be put into place.
The letters BALPA appear above qiute a lot !
What have they actually achieved in this respect, then ?
HMMMMMMM ?????
Answer anyone ? How about ZERO ?
Pathetic ! They'll be telling us we can't have proper sleep patterns next ...........
The other bottom line is that the airline environment often does'nt permit the self-provision of proper food. Proper food MUST be provided, therefore. Failure to provide said food MUST result in a delayed flight. Rigid rules MUST be put into place.
The letters BALPA appear above qiute a lot !
What have they actually achieved in this respect, then ?
HMMMMMMM ?????
Answer anyone ? How about ZERO ?Pathetic ! They'll be telling us we can't have proper sleep patterns next ...........
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Anthony, sorry to take issue on this, but. Proper food most definitely does not have to be hot from a nutritional point of view, and just how is a third rate contract meal fat and sugar controlled?
There is no reason why the airline environment prevents one from obtaining one's own food, all it takes is a little planning. There has been a lot of crap talked about hygiene issues too. You dont poison yourself at home, so why should you do it at work?
Two hundred and fifty pilots at Go have operated for years eating their own food, happily, safely and far more cheaply than the near £2000 per year cost (to a Go pilot) of this EJ swindle. Virtually none of the Go pilots want food provided if it costs them money, those who voted yes were duped by the company who cynically neglected to mention in advance that the provision of food came at a financial cost. That is the sort of behaviour that lands retailers or service providers in court, its called "fraud" in the commercial world. Why is it permitted in employment?
The fact is that EJ saw that food was clearly not necessary as Go had proved it to them, and that is very hard to argue against.
There is no reason why the airline environment prevents one from obtaining one's own food, all it takes is a little planning. There has been a lot of crap talked about hygiene issues too. You dont poison yourself at home, so why should you do it at work?
Two hundred and fifty pilots at Go have operated for years eating their own food, happily, safely and far more cheaply than the near £2000 per year cost (to a Go pilot) of this EJ swindle. Virtually none of the Go pilots want food provided if it costs them money, those who voted yes were duped by the company who cynically neglected to mention in advance that the provision of food came at a financial cost. That is the sort of behaviour that lands retailers or service providers in court, its called "fraud" in the commercial world. Why is it permitted in employment?
The fact is that EJ saw that food was clearly not necessary as Go had proved it to them, and that is very hard to argue against.
Uncle Pete
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Crew food is not a "perk".
Years ago we used to have meal breaks. Good for the CRM as well when you all sit down for lunch and have a stroll round the shops before returning to base laden with goodies.
As an aid to increased productivity crew meal breaks were phased out and crew meals phased in ........ and the rest is history.
MP
Years ago we used to have meal breaks. Good for the CRM as well when you all sit down for lunch and have a stroll round the shops before returning to base laden with goodies.
As an aid to increased productivity crew meal breaks were phased out and crew meals phased in ........ and the rest is history.
MP
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Agaricus bisporus
Interesting to see that in order to make your argument sound better you quote "nearly £2000" cost to ex Go pilots. In fact the figure is £1100 - exactly! From that figure you can deduct the amount that you normally spent on your own food. Now even if you eat like a sparrow - that's going to take it down well below a grand.
Now don't get me wrong - I totally disagree with this charge anyway but why quote totally inaccurate figures? - it doesn't help anyone.
Another point worth noting is that the Go schedule allowed crews to organise their self feeding with minimal disruption - the easy schedule does not allow that.
Whether it will or not in the future remains to be seen - I have my doubts!
Interesting to see that in order to make your argument sound better you quote "nearly £2000" cost to ex Go pilots. In fact the figure is £1100 - exactly! From that figure you can deduct the amount that you normally spent on your own food. Now even if you eat like a sparrow - that's going to take it down well below a grand.
Now don't get me wrong - I totally disagree with this charge anyway but why quote totally inaccurate figures? - it doesn't help anyone.
Another point worth noting is that the Go schedule allowed crews to organise their self feeding with minimal disruption - the easy schedule does not allow that.
Whether it will or not in the future remains to be seen - I have my doubts!
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Flaps, nothing wrong with my maths at all, with respect. I am not quoting inaccurate figures, it is those who insist on the £1100 that are being economical with the truth.
Remember that Go pilots lose a considerable sum in the tax break, more than doubling their sector tax bill in addition to the £1100, and that makes far closer to 2 grand than one. Exactly.
And thats the reality thats being hidden by misleadingly quoting only part of the sting. Sure, its "only" £1100 for EJ guys, the reality elsewhere is far worse.
The amount you choose to spend on your own food is irrelevant to this argument. Some do not eat at all on board, but no one, on one whatever spends nearly a tenner per day on self-provided food, nor often even a quarter of that.
I'm not sure how the schedule affects all this though. Don't EJ folk get food from supermarkets like the rest of us? So whats the problem? I accept this is not preferable if youre used to having food provided, but surely its better than taking a big pay cut?
Remember that Go pilots lose a considerable sum in the tax break, more than doubling their sector tax bill in addition to the £1100, and that makes far closer to 2 grand than one. Exactly.
And thats the reality thats being hidden by misleadingly quoting only part of the sting. Sure, its "only" £1100 for EJ guys, the reality elsewhere is far worse.
The amount you choose to spend on your own food is irrelevant to this argument. Some do not eat at all on board, but no one, on one whatever spends nearly a tenner per day on self-provided food, nor often even a quarter of that.
I'm not sure how the schedule affects all this though. Don't EJ folk get food from supermarkets like the rest of us? So whats the problem? I accept this is not preferable if youre used to having food provided, but surely its better than taking a big pay cut?
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Agaricus bisporus
Firstly - The GO deal with the Inland Revenue expired in January. It would have expired in January regardless of any take-over/merger. There was no guarantee/promise/suggestion whatsoever that the tax break of 70% would continue beyond that date. Do you know different, because the Revenue doesn't.
Secondly - The point I was making was about the changes and disruption to the rosters. You didn't have that problem to anywhere near the extent it happened at EZ - that's what we've been hearing for the last few months. Also you did not fly through the night on 12 hour shifts. I don't want to eat a sandwich that has been in my Flight bag for several hours anyway (health and safety?).
Where do you get the 'tenner a day' from?
£2.50 x 230 flying days (approx) per year = £575 net that your not spending anymore!
Many people don't want to work 12+ hours without food - I know I don't.
The charge stinks - full stop! but it isn't £2000.
Firstly - The GO deal with the Inland Revenue expired in January. It would have expired in January regardless of any take-over/merger. There was no guarantee/promise/suggestion whatsoever that the tax break of 70% would continue beyond that date. Do you know different, because the Revenue doesn't.
Secondly - The point I was making was about the changes and disruption to the rosters. You didn't have that problem to anywhere near the extent it happened at EZ - that's what we've been hearing for the last few months. Also you did not fly through the night on 12 hour shifts. I don't want to eat a sandwich that has been in my Flight bag for several hours anyway (health and safety?).
Where do you get the 'tenner a day' from?
£2.50 x 230 flying days (approx) per year = £575 net that your not spending anymore!
Many people don't want to work 12+ hours without food - I know I don't.
The charge stinks - full stop! but it isn't £2000.
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Just to stick my oar in, Agaricus, crew food is seen as a perk by the ex - Go guys, at easy it is not a perk but an absolute necessity due to our appalling rostering etc. But I think this has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread. The fact remains, however, that for example on a three day NCE trip, on day 2 we report at 0400z for a four sector NCE - CDG, it is impossible to provide your own food at that time of day, everything is shut!! The shi**y hotel we use might occasionally provide breakfast, but not very often!
Rant over, off to pack for a 3 day trip....
Rant over, off to pack for a 3 day trip....
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Flaps, we never negotiated the deal with the IR, so we'll never know what might have been, but the fact remains that some of us have lost a valuable tax concession, and the fact remains that COSTS.
Apologies for my maths, I've made a blunder in the calculations - Average sactor pay £800pm, current tax on that £96. Future tax on that £224, ie a £128 difference. That is, I'm horrified to see, £1536. So in deference to your correction it is clearly not Two Grand at all, it is closer to THREE!
Where do I get a Tenner a day from? Basic school arithmetic mate. You yourself quoted 230 working days per year, and that divided into 2000 is pretty close to a Tenner, isn't it? In fact Ive shown above it is rather more, £11.46 actually. OK, it is less for EJ guys, but still over £5.
I had not intended to get bogged in detail, my point was general one that hot food is not the be-all and end-all and that there are perfectly good alternativess to the unreasonable "deal" we have ended up with. I take the point re 0400 starts at NCE, but a local arrangement can easily cover isolated anomalies like that.
The company saw that no food could be done, because it was being done, and they imposed on us an unexpected bill because we didn't think to ask the whole question (and why should we?). That is what I'm upset over. I wonder what the ballot would have said if we'd known the true cost?
Those of us without H & S problems in our flightbags will continue to eat our sandwiches and Tesco meals because we prefer to eat what we want, not fat laden contract food and crisps. For this priviledge we are being rooked of a figure between £1100 and £2600, depending on your situation. And that just aint right or fair, is it?
Oh, and what happens when the food does not arrive? Do we decline to go? We've paid for it. Will there be a refund?
Apologies for my maths, I've made a blunder in the calculations - Average sactor pay £800pm, current tax on that £96. Future tax on that £224, ie a £128 difference. That is, I'm horrified to see, £1536. So in deference to your correction it is clearly not Two Grand at all, it is closer to THREE!
Where do I get a Tenner a day from? Basic school arithmetic mate. You yourself quoted 230 working days per year, and that divided into 2000 is pretty close to a Tenner, isn't it? In fact Ive shown above it is rather more, £11.46 actually. OK, it is less for EJ guys, but still over £5.
I had not intended to get bogged in detail, my point was general one that hot food is not the be-all and end-all and that there are perfectly good alternativess to the unreasonable "deal" we have ended up with. I take the point re 0400 starts at NCE, but a local arrangement can easily cover isolated anomalies like that.
The company saw that no food could be done, because it was being done, and they imposed on us an unexpected bill because we didn't think to ask the whole question (and why should we?). That is what I'm upset over. I wonder what the ballot would have said if we'd known the true cost?
Those of us without H & S problems in our flightbags will continue to eat our sandwiches and Tesco meals because we prefer to eat what we want, not fat laden contract food and crisps. For this priviledge we are being rooked of a figure between £1100 and £2600, depending on your situation. And that just aint right or fair, is it?
Oh, and what happens when the food does not arrive? Do we decline to go? We've paid for it. Will there be a refund?
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This quote from AL (on the company forum)
So, based on that, what chances of 70% tax relief? It knocks a big hole in the maths!
Also, don't forget to deduct whatever you spent on food anyway - unless Tesco gave you the stuff for free!
The charge still stinks!
BTW - if the food doesn't come.........don't go!
First of all, it must be appreciated that the 70% tax relief enjoyed in GO was only valid up until 31st January 2003. The Inland Revenue are engineering a new regime to address the matter of flight crew benefits, and we are now told that keeping 70% would be most unlikely even without crew food. In addition, the all day bar from which many GO pilots bought their sandwiches does not exist in eJ.
Also, don't forget to deduct whatever you spent on food anyway - unless Tesco gave you the stuff for free!
The charge still stinks!
BTW - if the food doesn't come.........don't go!
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Flaps, are you management or something? I regret that your accounting "logic" is quite beyond me. In my book expenses cost me, not benefit me.
How long do you imagine your employment would last if you took the action you suggest?
How long do you imagine your employment would last if you took the action you suggest?
Thread Starter
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it goes on and on
It seems this subject will not rest. On a BALPA only website, EZBOARD for those in the know, this subject still ensures a lively debate,
What all seem to miss though is the subject of this thread. UK crews are becoming increasingly divided over what constitutes an acceptable meal whilst our Swiss colleagues munch on , ever so contented. the Swiss have always had an acceptable level of catering, three course, salad starter etc. Meanwhile, UK crews owned by the same management have to fight just to keep crew food.
What all seem to miss though is the subject of this thread. UK crews are becoming increasingly divided over what constitutes an acceptable meal whilst our Swiss colleagues munch on , ever so contented. the Swiss have always had an acceptable level of catering, three course, salad starter etc. Meanwhile, UK crews owned by the same management have to fight just to keep crew food.
Last edited by pilotofjet; 20th Apr 2003 at 14:31.
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Having crew food is not an option but an air safety issue. If it is not on board then crews must have the ability to order food or delay the flight whilst finding some food. It's that simple. If your blood sugar is low then you are not fit to fly. If you fly having not eaten for over 8 hrs than you don't deserve your stripes and you certainly shouldn't be making decisions that could effect the lives of 150 or so people. Start filing CHIRP reports pronto if you guys lose crew food.
This is right at the heart of what makes a good pilot and a safe operator. Accidents happen due to a chain of events, low blood sugar, tiredness and stress are all incredibly important to the decision making process. We are all now trained in recognising the above and should NEVER operate if we feel that we are not right in all respects.
How can crew provide their own food? What if you both turn up with the same stuff? Has it been made in a health and safety enviroment as per the rule for crew food? What if you forget to bring any grub, is that it for a 9 hr day?
This is right at the heart of what makes a good pilot and a safe operator. Accidents happen due to a chain of events, low blood sugar, tiredness and stress are all incredibly important to the decision making process. We are all now trained in recognising the above and should NEVER operate if we feel that we are not right in all respects.
How can crew provide their own food? What if you both turn up with the same stuff? Has it been made in a health and safety enviroment as per the rule for crew food? What if you forget to bring any grub, is that it for a 9 hr day?
Last edited by Youwererobbed; 23rd Apr 2003 at 05:04.
