Emirates Advice to Stay Or Go!!
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Hi guys,
Thinking of joining emirates?
We have a very radical director of flight ops, with old fashion management style. Disciplinary actions for everything and the encouragement of a reporting system, where Pilots report Pilots and junior flight att. are reporting seniors and pursers are reporting Pilots. He is trying very hard to destroy the motivation and the loyalty of his staff.
Rules and regulations do only apply for staff and not for the management. They reserve the right to do what they want to do, and believe me they are doing what they want to do.
Seniority for upgrades is non-existent. The A-330 fleet bypasses the whole B777 fleet. Bad luck for those sitting on the B-777 at the moment. If you on the Airbus you will get your upgrade in less than one year. If you are on the B-777 it will take you up to 4 years. Bypass pay? Are you joking or what? We are making so much profit this year that we cannot effort something like this! The attitude of the management is “take it or leave it” and you no what, they can afford it because you out their might also need a job. So what does this mean for new guys? About 7 years in the right hand seat. So be prepared that you will not be able to save a lot of money as first officer
Dubai is very nice and offers a lot of activities and a nice but expansive lifestyle. It is family friendly and the schooling is also good. Due to the bad usd exchange rate you lose about 20 % of your salary. By the end of the day you will recognise that emirates is just another airline and nothing more. Don’t expect the golden camel when you arrive or apply.
Furthermore emirates are looking into DE Capt. So if you hold an A-330 command wait a little bit and than join as DE. Bad for us and good for your guys out their with no job.
The amount of empty promises is breaking the sound barrier at the moment.
Emirates is still a good company with nice people, a strange culture and a unique management.
What Mr.Druckmefunk said about us is 99% the truth. Thanks for taking so much time and tell the truth.
All the best anyway for all those who will join.
Thinking of joining emirates?
We have a very radical director of flight ops, with old fashion management style. Disciplinary actions for everything and the encouragement of a reporting system, where Pilots report Pilots and junior flight att. are reporting seniors and pursers are reporting Pilots. He is trying very hard to destroy the motivation and the loyalty of his staff.
Rules and regulations do only apply for staff and not for the management. They reserve the right to do what they want to do, and believe me they are doing what they want to do.
Seniority for upgrades is non-existent. The A-330 fleet bypasses the whole B777 fleet. Bad luck for those sitting on the B-777 at the moment. If you on the Airbus you will get your upgrade in less than one year. If you are on the B-777 it will take you up to 4 years. Bypass pay? Are you joking or what? We are making so much profit this year that we cannot effort something like this! The attitude of the management is “take it or leave it” and you no what, they can afford it because you out their might also need a job. So what does this mean for new guys? About 7 years in the right hand seat. So be prepared that you will not be able to save a lot of money as first officer
Dubai is very nice and offers a lot of activities and a nice but expansive lifestyle. It is family friendly and the schooling is also good. Due to the bad usd exchange rate you lose about 20 % of your salary. By the end of the day you will recognise that emirates is just another airline and nothing more. Don’t expect the golden camel when you arrive or apply.
Furthermore emirates are looking into DE Capt. So if you hold an A-330 command wait a little bit and than join as DE. Bad for us and good for your guys out their with no job.
The amount of empty promises is breaking the sound barrier at the moment.
Emirates is still a good company with nice people, a strange culture and a unique management.
What Mr.Druckmefunk said about us is 99% the truth. Thanks for taking so much time and tell the truth.
All the best anyway for all those who will join.
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A few things worth considering when coming to DXB:
1) Get the biggest *******car/4x4 you can afford as it WILL save your life one day. The driving is scary and definitely dangerous.
2) Keep an eye out for your kids especially in their teens as there are bad elements out here probably due to the lack of after school activities.
3) For any sports, music and interests outside of normal schooling expect to pay for it (sometimes quite pricey). Schools do not provide a lot of extra cirricular activities.
4) Do respect the local customs as the authorities do not take kindly to any remarks about their faith or culture. Think before you speak especially when around locals.
5) If you are even considering driving after one drink.....give it up as the police will throw the book at you and lock you up. This stay at the Dubai gaol can be anywhere from one month or more.
6) Try and keep out of the company rumour mill as it will only make you bitter and twisted in a short span of time. Spend time with your loved ones instead.
MOVE TO EMIRATES......DEFINITELY!!
Hey drygin7, I think the gin has pickled your brain mate as I cannot recall anyone getting an A330 command in under one year. Maybe there are a secret group of pilots we don't know about....stealth A330 captains maybe???? Try and check out your sources before submitting it next time.
1) Get the biggest *******car/4x4 you can afford as it WILL save your life one day. The driving is scary and definitely dangerous.
2) Keep an eye out for your kids especially in their teens as there are bad elements out here probably due to the lack of after school activities.
3) For any sports, music and interests outside of normal schooling expect to pay for it (sometimes quite pricey). Schools do not provide a lot of extra cirricular activities.
4) Do respect the local customs as the authorities do not take kindly to any remarks about their faith or culture. Think before you speak especially when around locals.
5) If you are even considering driving after one drink.....give it up as the police will throw the book at you and lock you up. This stay at the Dubai gaol can be anywhere from one month or more.
6) Try and keep out of the company rumour mill as it will only make you bitter and twisted in a short span of time. Spend time with your loved ones instead.
MOVE TO EMIRATES......DEFINITELY!!
Hey drygin7, I think the gin has pickled your brain mate as I cannot recall anyone getting an A330 command in under one year. Maybe there are a secret group of pilots we don't know about....stealth A330 captains maybe???? Try and check out your sources before submitting it next time.
Last edited by Jetdriver; 29th Mar 2003 at 07:10.
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Whiteknight,
It is interesting that in your original post you led us to believe that you were a BA Training Captain. It later transpired that in fact you were a City Flyer Express training captain who had got his BA command by default during the takeover. Presumably you were not one of the magic fifty who are to transfer to the 737.
I think your posts would be more credible if you cut out the B...S...
cheers
zzz
It is interesting that in your original post you led us to believe that you were a BA Training Captain. It later transpired that in fact you were a City Flyer Express training captain who had got his BA command by default during the takeover. Presumably you were not one of the magic fifty who are to transfer to the 737.
I think your posts would be more credible if you cut out the B...S...
cheers
zzz
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Z's
I'm pretty certain that my last couple of years payslips with BA showed that I was indeed a BA training captain, with a mainline contract, pay and seniority number. Oh yes and that did include the job of training pilots from other BA fleets onto my old type.
Yes I was ex CFE, and for your information I first applied to EK about four and a half years ago. LONG before any takeover of CFE was happening by BA. Do you also mean to say that all the old Dan Air and B-Cal trainers - who became trainers at BA are also not "REAL"
It's a pity you seem to be suffering from a serious bunch of very sour grapes.
I far prefer living and working in DXB to that ****ehole back in UK. I also was very unimpressed with the way BA works, but that's by the by.
I'm so sorry if you don't think I "cut the mustard", but I think you're on your own there.
In future try keeping your petty jealosy to yourself.
I'm pretty certain that my last couple of years payslips with BA showed that I was indeed a BA training captain, with a mainline contract, pay and seniority number. Oh yes and that did include the job of training pilots from other BA fleets onto my old type.
Yes I was ex CFE, and for your information I first applied to EK about four and a half years ago. LONG before any takeover of CFE was happening by BA. Do you also mean to say that all the old Dan Air and B-Cal trainers - who became trainers at BA are also not "REAL"
It's a pity you seem to be suffering from a serious bunch of very sour grapes.
I far prefer living and working in DXB to that ****ehole back in UK. I also was very unimpressed with the way BA works, but that's by the by.
I'm so sorry if you don't think I "cut the mustard", but I think you're on your own there.
In future try keeping your petty jealosy to yourself.
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Whiteknight,
I was just pointing out that your original post was misleading. The originator of this thread was asking for advice about giving up a good left hand seat job in the UK for a co-pilot job in Dubai, a pleasant enough place I agree.
You rightly said you were a BA Training Captain, well done. In my opinion you should have qualifyed it with the full story. This guy is trying to make a big decision, you have not helped. Nothing personal, definately no jealousy.
cheers
zzz
I was just pointing out that your original post was misleading. The originator of this thread was asking for advice about giving up a good left hand seat job in the UK for a co-pilot job in Dubai, a pleasant enough place I agree.
You rightly said you were a BA Training Captain, well done. In my opinion you should have qualifyed it with the full story. This guy is trying to make a big decision, you have not helped. Nothing personal, definately no jealousy.
cheers
zzz
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Ok...
Cut to the chase. What is FO pay for 7 years(GBP or USD, please
)? What is the Capt. pay and retirement?
The way the US industry is going, how bad could it be? Thanks in advance.TC
)? What is the Capt. pay and retirement?The way the US industry is going, how bad could it be? Thanks in advance.TC
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Hi brown noser
I hope that you are right and I am wrong about the upgrades.
My sources are those people who are doing their upgrade in one year time and they are doing their courses. Maybe we are working for different companys.
Dont worry I dont drink and my brain is clear. If you tell me that this is not the case, you are making me happy. But what are those pilots doing on their upgrade courses?
Maybe you should also first check your sources before you get emotional about other rumours.
You should not forget that this is also just a rumour network and your davice was to stay out of the company rumour mill. All rumours are from the same source, from us PILOTS. So I wonder what you are doing in this rumour network. You might should follow your own advice and stay out of the RN.
I still hope that you are right and I am wrong?
My sources are those people who are doing their upgrade in one year time and they are doing their courses. Maybe we are working for different companys.
Dont worry I dont drink and my brain is clear. If you tell me that this is not the case, you are making me happy. But what are those pilots doing on their upgrade courses?
Maybe you should also first check your sources before you get emotional about other rumours.
You should not forget that this is also just a rumour network and your davice was to stay out of the company rumour mill. All rumours are from the same source, from us PILOTS. So I wonder what you are doing in this rumour network. You might should follow your own advice and stay out of the RN.
I still hope that you are right and I am wrong?
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White Knight If you are going to be pedantic about spelling then 'accommodation' is how it is spelt .
G.Khan As to your suggestion that they can send offspring to boarding schools in UK,then it is not possible on EK salary,as it means keeping a house available for all the exeats, half-terms and tickets back and forth all cost money over and above the free one. The only way IMHO for these kind of jobs being worthwhile is to have no overheads in UK ie let your house out otherwise all your money will soon go.
I have seen guys come away from the Gulf after 10years+ with nothing in the Bank as they get carried away with luxury cars ,boats ,and holidays. One needs to have financial goals and stick rigidly to them.
Also it seems to me that far too many Pilots are joining EK hoping for quick commands,and what with longer sectors requiring more F/O's than Captains not all aspirations in that area will be met.
For a young F/O to join is an easy decision but for an experienced Captain to join as an F/O and start all over again is not one to be taken lightly.
G.Khan As to your suggestion that they can send offspring to boarding schools in UK,then it is not possible on EK salary,as it means keeping a house available for all the exeats, half-terms and tickets back and forth all cost money over and above the free one. The only way IMHO for these kind of jobs being worthwhile is to have no overheads in UK ie let your house out otherwise all your money will soon go.
I have seen guys come away from the Gulf after 10years+ with nothing in the Bank as they get carried away with luxury cars ,boats ,and holidays. One needs to have financial goals and stick rigidly to them.
Also it seems to me that far too many Pilots are joining EK hoping for quick commands,and what with longer sectors requiring more F/O's than Captains not all aspirations in that area will be met.
For a young F/O to join is an easy decision but for an experienced Captain to join as an F/O and start all over again is not one to be taken lightly.
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druckmefunk I think your statement that:
" which will in turn allow me to take my family back home, which is where we all want to be."
probably says a lot more than you have in the rest of your post?
thegypsy
What rot! I have known dozens of families who have not felt it necessary to keep a house/flat going in the home country where the kids are educated, Mum may go back to pick them up and then take them back, that is an ID90% or a leave ticket, no where near the cost of a house, others have been taken care of by other relatives at home and put on/met from flights. Those families that have kept a house for their use in the UK, for example, usually have other reasons, like they don't have any long term plans to stay overseas anyway and if Mum stays with the kids Dad won't be tempted to stay overseas any longer than it takes to find another job.
Pity that in just about every post you make you only have a very negative point of view, obviously working overseas doesn't/didn't suit you?
" which will in turn allow me to take my family back home, which is where we all want to be."
probably says a lot more than you have in the rest of your post?
thegypsy
What rot! I have known dozens of families who have not felt it necessary to keep a house/flat going in the home country where the kids are educated, Mum may go back to pick them up and then take them back, that is an ID90% or a leave ticket, no where near the cost of a house, others have been taken care of by other relatives at home and put on/met from flights. Those families that have kept a house for their use in the UK, for example, usually have other reasons, like they don't have any long term plans to stay overseas anyway and if Mum stays with the kids Dad won't be tempted to stay overseas any longer than it takes to find another job.
Pity that in just about every post you make you only have a very negative point of view, obviously working overseas doesn't/didn't suit you?
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G.Khan You obviously know nothing about the cost of Boarding school fees in UK.Then again you are in Australia so why should you?? Not of course that it stops you spouting off on the subject!
Get off your high horse and calm down is my advice to you.These days boarding schools have exeats ,long half terms,and joining EK or anyone else these days is usually a long term committment . Sure if you have long suffering close relatives who don't mind your offspring being foisted on them all the time then it might work,but as I said before to make these jobs worthwhile IMHO you need to have no costs back home . As for ID90 travel that is getting more and more problematical. Maybe you are retired now G.Khan and therefore no longer in the loop I suspect??
Get off your high horse and calm down is my advice to you.These days boarding schools have exeats ,long half terms,and joining EK or anyone else these days is usually a long term committment . Sure if you have long suffering close relatives who don't mind your offspring being foisted on them all the time then it might work,but as I said before to make these jobs worthwhile IMHO you need to have no costs back home . As for ID90 travel that is getting more and more problematical. Maybe you are retired now G.Khan and therefore no longer in the loop I suspect??
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ott - Just wondering, have you made your decision yet?
thegypsy A pom retired to Australia and whose sister is the head mistress of a girls boarding school in the UK so not that far out of the loop. 'Spouting Off" indeed! pot kettle and black spring to mind. You tend to paint a very negative picture and I try and inject a bit of reality, that's all.
thegypsy A pom retired to Australia and whose sister is the head mistress of a girls boarding school in the UK so not that far out of the loop. 'Spouting Off" indeed! pot kettle and black spring to mind. You tend to paint a very negative picture and I try and inject a bit of reality, that's all.
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EK - As has been said earlier, "just another airline!"
Since all the attractions that used to be a pull, ie. great salary, early commands, etc seem now to have been factored out of the equation. EK sounds no better or worse than many. Perhaps the lack of labour protections, may make some stay away.
As far as life in the sandpit is concerned : Dubai, great place, I love popping there for the weekend, take in a bit of sun and nightlife, then drive the two Rolls Royce back to 'Dear old Blighty' for a stroll down the pub and a warm frothy beer, in front of a log fire.
This grimy, dank, crappy, sh*****le, feels SO much like home.
White Knight; zzz, was correct, which presumably is why you are so touchy on the subject.
ott; pays yer money, takes yer choice! How much do you like warm frothy beer?
Since all the attractions that used to be a pull, ie. great salary, early commands, etc seem now to have been factored out of the equation. EK sounds no better or worse than many. Perhaps the lack of labour protections, may make some stay away.
As far as life in the sandpit is concerned : Dubai, great place, I love popping there for the weekend, take in a bit of sun and nightlife, then drive the two Rolls Royce back to 'Dear old Blighty' for a stroll down the pub and a warm frothy beer, in front of a log fire.
This grimy, dank, crappy, sh*****le, feels SO much like home.
White Knight; zzz, was correct, which presumably is why you are so touchy on the subject.
ott; pays yer money, takes yer choice! How much do you like warm frothy beer?
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TR - I'm not touchy at all. Whatever was happening at BA wouldn't have changed my desire to come and live here. Please feel free to ask my old colleagues on the RJ who've known that I was trying to get to EK for a long, long time before BA even considered buying Cityflyer.
Besides - if I'd stayed at BA I could have kept my command on the RJ at BHX or MAN, or failing to WANT to do that I'd have still had training captains pay. Not exactly a big deal. Well, if you like dark, dank Blighty you're welcome. Everyone's entitled to their view.
ZZZ's - do you know me ? The guy starting the thread asked for an opinion, and I gave it. Bullsh1t ? No.
Besides - if I'd stayed at BA I could have kept my command on the RJ at BHX or MAN, or failing to WANT to do that I'd have still had training captains pay. Not exactly a big deal. Well, if you like dark, dank Blighty you're welcome. Everyone's entitled to their view.
ZZZ's - do you know me ? The guy starting the thread asked for an opinion, and I gave it. Bullsh1t ? No.
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White Knight
You are absolutely right. Everyone is entitled to their view. I have lived the expat life (albeit in the World's first Air Force!) and I am now, very content to be in the place that I feel is home, (that feeling for me is priceless) rather than patching lives together across the globe.
You have recently arrived in the Arab world, and not surprisingly are very keen. Good on yer!
All I am saying is; the shine of new places, can, and usually does, wear off after a period. As alluded to by previous posters from your new company.
Also, perhaps you do have to get away from this grimy, dank, crappy, sh******le, to appreciate what it offers. We Brits are experts at slagging ourselves off!
Good luck to you. Personally, I have had a gutfull of the longhaul lifestyle. I found it quite lonely, and coincidentally, expect to take one of the RJ jobs at BHX (that you didn't want,) because it's even closer to home! I have no illusions about the aircraft, but at the end of the day, it's not what you fly, but WHERE you fly that is the important thing! (It's also the best paid shorthaul job in BA - but of course, that's neither here nor there!)
The expat lifestyle is good, but it rarely lasts a lifetime. If you aren't already thinking "what comes next," I really think you should.
Beware that, in a couple of years time, your triumphalism at leaving your homeland behind, doesn't come back and bite you in the bum!
ott, have you made your mind up yet?
You are absolutely right. Everyone is entitled to their view. I have lived the expat life (albeit in the World's first Air Force!) and I am now, very content to be in the place that I feel is home, (that feeling for me is priceless) rather than patching lives together across the globe.
You have recently arrived in the Arab world, and not surprisingly are very keen. Good on yer!
All I am saying is; the shine of new places, can, and usually does, wear off after a period. As alluded to by previous posters from your new company.
Also, perhaps you do have to get away from this grimy, dank, crappy, sh******le, to appreciate what it offers. We Brits are experts at slagging ourselves off!
Good luck to you. Personally, I have had a gutfull of the longhaul lifestyle. I found it quite lonely, and coincidentally, expect to take one of the RJ jobs at BHX (that you didn't want,) because it's even closer to home! I have no illusions about the aircraft, but at the end of the day, it's not what you fly, but WHERE you fly that is the important thing! (It's also the best paid shorthaul job in BA - but of course, that's neither here nor there!)
The expat lifestyle is good, but it rarely lasts a lifetime. If you aren't already thinking "what comes next," I really think you should.
Beware that, in a couple of years time, your triumphalism at leaving your homeland behind, doesn't come back and bite you in the bum!
ott, have you made your mind up yet?
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TR - I see you actually think the same way as me. Absolutely it's not what you fly but WHERE. That is why my views are as they are.
I have indeed lived the expat lifestyle for many years, both as a child and during my flying career. Can't say I ever missed the UK. Good luck in Brum.
I personally think the 146 RJ is a fantastic aeroplane, what it lacks in performance it makes up for in style. Enjoy flying it, I did.
I have indeed lived the expat lifestyle for many years, both as a child and during my flying career. Can't say I ever missed the UK. Good luck in Brum.
I personally think the 146 RJ is a fantastic aeroplane, what it lacks in performance it makes up for in style. Enjoy flying it, I did.
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Hey drygin7,
Firstly, good on you for not drinking. Secondly, if you know of anyone doing their upgrade courses and completing it within a year of joining EK I would be interested in the numbers. Apart from a couple of flight ops managers who came as direct entry captains/managers I cannot recall anyone who has upgraded in that one year timeframe. Thirdly, I don't get emotional, I just get even
Firstly, good on you for not drinking. Secondly, if you know of anyone doing their upgrade courses and completing it within a year of joining EK I would be interested in the numbers. Apart from a couple of flight ops managers who came as direct entry captains/managers I cannot recall anyone who has upgraded in that one year timeframe. Thirdly, I don't get emotional, I just get even
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sounds familiar
Play the game of substituting CX for EK, Hong Kong for Dubai and knock ten years off the date. Consider the parallels:
A major airline undergoing fleet expansion with robust hiring and rapid upgrades, at least for those already there although not necessarily for the new joiners. A bunch of expat pilots all requiring the social support and infrastructures of accommodation, schools, clubs etc that come at increasingly steep prices partially funded by the goodwill of the company from company coffers. A signed contract which sets in concrete the conditions of service which are nevertheless sadly subject to amendment, at first with apology, then as a regrettable necessity and finally as standard practice. No union representation of pilot interests effectively allowing management shepherds to round the sheep up as they see fit, best hope that the good shepherd doesn’t pay too much interest in you because we all know what the welly boots are there for don’t we?
Different airlines, different places, different times. It could of course be smooth sailing from this point on but history does tend to repeat itself. Buyer beware?
A major airline undergoing fleet expansion with robust hiring and rapid upgrades, at least for those already there although not necessarily for the new joiners. A bunch of expat pilots all requiring the social support and infrastructures of accommodation, schools, clubs etc that come at increasingly steep prices partially funded by the goodwill of the company from company coffers. A signed contract which sets in concrete the conditions of service which are nevertheless sadly subject to amendment, at first with apology, then as a regrettable necessity and finally as standard practice. No union representation of pilot interests effectively allowing management shepherds to round the sheep up as they see fit, best hope that the good shepherd doesn’t pay too much interest in you because we all know what the welly boots are there for don’t we?
Different airlines, different places, different times. It could of course be smooth sailing from this point on but history does tend to repeat itself. Buyer beware?
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Wassup, getting furloughed from American Airlines, I'm a single dad ( Superdad). Putting in apps. with emirates, coming to visit this summer. I'm Scandinavian, so no ties to the US, What does the former US airline guys there think, or are there any?
How's life at BA? Fly you every time I go home Love your Flight Attendants And Gate Agents, very cust. serv. oriented, can't say the same about ours. But then, look at our former CEO. Ignorance rolls downhill.
How's life at BA? Fly you every time I go home Love your Flight Attendants And Gate Agents, very cust. serv. oriented, can't say the same about ours. But then, look at our former CEO. Ignorance rolls downhill.