Emirates Advice to Stay Or Go!!
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Emirates Advice to Stay Or Go!!
I am in the fortunate position of holding rank of Captain with a UK Charter company and for those of you who are out of work I apologise for my pontificating as I am already holding a post that to most would seem enviable.
Emirates have offered me a position of First Officer. I have a wife and kids. For those guys there or indeed who have just made the decision can you enlighten me on your decision making process.
Any regrets and if so what. I am hoping that you all had similar apprehensive thoughts. I would appreciate those thoughts.
Many Thanks
Emirates have offered me a position of First Officer. I have a wife and kids. For those guys there or indeed who have just made the decision can you enlighten me on your decision making process.
Any regrets and if so what. I am hoping that you all had similar apprehensive thoughts. I would appreciate those thoughts.
Many Thanks
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Go!
Emirates is a modern and expanding airline - one of the few in the world that is still growing. I have heard that Dubai is a very modern and progressive city (by Middle East standards) with a large British expatriate community - great for wife and kids - probably good schools. Add on to that interesting routes and very advanced aircraft (777s!). The alternative is to stay in a contracting British airline industry where sorrow is pervasive and wages seem to be reduced annually.... Also, scheduled flying is probably preferred to erratic charter flying - right?
A few questions for you:
1. Any idea about aircraft type for training for you - A330/40 or 777? Have they assigned you to a type - which would you prefer?
2. Have you seen the Airliner World mag for January (or Feb)? Evidently there is an article about Emirates pilots converting onto the 777 - it may be of interest to you...
Good luck - I'd prefer the dry desert oasis to the cold rain any day!
A few questions for you:
1. Any idea about aircraft type for training for you - A330/40 or 777? Have they assigned you to a type - which would you prefer?
2. Have you seen the Airliner World mag for January (or Feb)? Evidently there is an article about Emirates pilots converting onto the 777 - it may be of interest to you...
Good luck - I'd prefer the dry desert oasis to the cold rain any day!
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ott,
With all due respect to Lavdumperer, he doesnt work for EK nor does he live in the Middle East. I strongly suggest that you post this question in the Middle East forum seeking answers from EK drivers.
Mutt.
With all due respect to Lavdumperer, he doesnt work for EK nor does he live in the Middle East. I strongly suggest that you post this question in the Middle East forum seeking answers from EK drivers.
Mutt.
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Decision is totally yours to make - you probably know the answer already.
And yes - I have been through the selection board recently.
No problems working for the airline - very little to fault.
Do you want to live in Dubai for the next 20/30 years?
Where are you going to go if you need to come home 'cos you (or more likely) the wife and/or kids don't like it or are too far from mother/granny?
Were you happy with the accomodation?
Will you not mind going on trips that disappear for several days? Trips will be getting longer as they introduce the A340s to stateside destinations.
Can u suffer 48 Celsius for four months in the summer?
Best of luck.
And yes - I have been through the selection board recently.
No problems working for the airline - very little to fault.
Do you want to live in Dubai for the next 20/30 years?
Where are you going to go if you need to come home 'cos you (or more likely) the wife and/or kids don't like it or are too far from mother/granny?
Were you happy with the accomodation?
Will you not mind going on trips that disappear for several days? Trips will be getting longer as they introduce the A340s to stateside destinations.
Can u suffer 48 Celsius for four months in the summer?
Best of luck.
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Have worked a long time in the Middle East and the last time left the Charter World to do it. Never looked back!
ott - Given the uncertainty of the charter world you really don't, IMHO, have much of a decision to make. By moving to EK you will be making a quantum leap for you and your family that will remain with you for the rest of your lives. Dubai is a great place, only 7 hours from EGLL, EK are a good and expanding airline. Your kids will benefit from an excellent education and if you send them to board in the UK, when they are old enough, they will go to quality schools you could only dream about if you stayed with Charter. Wives, generally, (but not always), prefer the ME to the Far East. As an expat. your social life is usually far more interesting than the UK, (my experience, anyway).
I found that going long-haul in the ME was far less tiring than Charter in and around Europe, yes, a few days away followed by some quality time off with the family in a place where you can really make use of it. The temperature does go to the high thirties/low forties, on average, for four months but your family will acclimatise.
Financially you won't look back and will eventually retire much further up the financial tree.
If you find that after five or ten years you want to go back then you can and still get a job, but don't expect Emirates to still be making you offers to join them in five or ten years time!
If you can correspond with people now working for Emirates who have been there long enough to make an objective assessement it would be all the better.
Best of Luck.
ott - Given the uncertainty of the charter world you really don't, IMHO, have much of a decision to make. By moving to EK you will be making a quantum leap for you and your family that will remain with you for the rest of your lives. Dubai is a great place, only 7 hours from EGLL, EK are a good and expanding airline. Your kids will benefit from an excellent education and if you send them to board in the UK, when they are old enough, they will go to quality schools you could only dream about if you stayed with Charter. Wives, generally, (but not always), prefer the ME to the Far East. As an expat. your social life is usually far more interesting than the UK, (my experience, anyway).
I found that going long-haul in the ME was far less tiring than Charter in and around Europe, yes, a few days away followed by some quality time off with the family in a place where you can really make use of it. The temperature does go to the high thirties/low forties, on average, for four months but your family will acclimatise.
Financially you won't look back and will eventually retire much further up the financial tree.
If you find that after five or ten years you want to go back then you can and still get a job, but don't expect Emirates to still be making you offers to join them in five or ten years time!
If you can correspond with people now working for Emirates who have been there long enough to make an objective assessement it would be all the better.
Best of Luck.
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already there
...you need to know what lies behind the show that is put on for you during the interview.
Example: no choice in fleet type you get.
accommodation the largest pain you will ever come across
schools good, no doubt
Dubai NOT the New Hong Kong the locals like to think
you will either love it or hate it, or learn to endure it.............the choice is yours in the end
Example: no choice in fleet type you get.
accommodation the largest pain you will ever come across
schools good, no doubt
Dubai NOT the New Hong Kong the locals like to think
you will either love it or hate it, or learn to endure it.............the choice is yours in the end
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So Count, whats that based upon, your experience as the resident EK wide-bodied expert? I see a few months ago you were looking at whether or not you could get a direct entry command with QR.
Seems that you have an axe to grind with EK and would prefer Doha to Dubai and the QR package vs EK. A real sound thinker if ever I saw one. When did you fail the EK interview?
Seems that you have an axe to grind with EK and would prefer Doha to Dubai and the QR package vs EK. A real sound thinker if ever I saw one. When did you fail the EK interview?
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Having left a position as a training captain at BA to become an FO at EK - all I can say is BEST MOVE I ever made. Another command in 2-3 years, sunshine nearly every day, kids LOVE it here, NO GORDON BROWN to rob me blind. All I can say OTT is come on in - the waters warm (nearly)
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ott:
I would give my left nut to be able to go to Dubai. I had an interview three years ago and was offered a job. I enthusiastically accepted. I was employed by a major North American airline at the time. I was so excited about moving there - it is a wonderful opportunity.
My personal situation prevented me from going - my hands were tied. In hindsight, it may have been a blessing - I'd probably be dead of drink by now if events had so transpired after having made the move. It's a consideration, to be sure.
Today, I am a captain at that same airline. If my personal situation would allow it, would I still consider EK - absolutely! I would be a speck on the horizon if I could. I'll always regret having missed the opportunity. I guess in the end it'll be your own gut feeling that makes your decision. For what it's worth, I say GO! Be gone! Never look back.
Best of luck,
skidoo
I would give my left nut to be able to go to Dubai. I had an interview three years ago and was offered a job. I enthusiastically accepted. I was employed by a major North American airline at the time. I was so excited about moving there - it is a wonderful opportunity.
My personal situation prevented me from going - my hands were tied. In hindsight, it may have been a blessing - I'd probably be dead of drink by now if events had so transpired after having made the move. It's a consideration, to be sure.
Today, I am a captain at that same airline. If my personal situation would allow it, would I still consider EK - absolutely! I would be a speck on the horizon if I could. I'll always regret having missed the opportunity. I guess in the end it'll be your own gut feeling that makes your decision. For what it's worth, I say GO! Be gone! Never look back.
Best of luck,
skidoo
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White Knight
With the greatest respect, what you failed to say was that:
1, You have only just arrived. Perhaps to early to judge every aspect.
2, You were about to lose your command at BA anyway.
Apart from that good luck!!
With the greatest respect, what you failed to say was that:
1, You have only just arrived. Perhaps to early to judge every aspect.
2, You were about to lose your command at BA anyway.
Apart from that good luck!!
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Katoi
1- may have only just arrived, but if the family are happy that does it for me. Besides I have no complaints about accomodation or anything else. I knew what I was coming to when I signed the contract.
2- Debatable (is that spelt right ??). What is for sure is how BALPA screwed some of us ex CFE people !!!!
Believe me I'm more than happy to have made the move.
1- may have only just arrived, but if the family are happy that does it for me. Besides I have no complaints about accomodation or anything else. I knew what I was coming to when I signed the contract.
2- Debatable (is that spelt right ??). What is for sure is how BALPA screwed some of us ex CFE people !!!!
Believe me I'm more than happy to have made the move.
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Perhaps some people with very 'blinded' view of Emirates. They are of course a good carrier and are expanding rapidly. Nice aircraft arriving all the time. Only thing is the pay is crap until your about a year 7 captain and living in Dubai can be very trying at times. Emirates is a good job, but it's definitely not as good as we're led to believe.
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White Knight,
It is always nice to hear positive comments from positive people. I think everyone brings a nice pair of rose colored glasses when they come to Dubai, I know i certainly did. But after a couple of years reality sets in. Many of us here are now just biding our time, waiting for our hours to build so that if and when better paying jobs, that allow us to go home, present themselves, we will be off like a shot. Consider the following and let me know if you will still be happy.
1. You are queue jumped by a direct entry captain.
2. You were lied to about the profit share and on arrival told that "sorry we have changed the rules and you now need to be here 12 months instead of 6 before you get any profit share. You reply "but when i signed my contract, the rules said only 6 months", they reply "yes we know, sorry but thats how it goes".
3. Your accomodation is across the other side of town from the only school that you are lucky enough to find a space in for your child. Then you have to spend around 2 hours per day in traffic dropping off and picking up kids. Not to mention the waitning time because the said school has up to three different pick up times for your children, and it is not feasible to get home and back in between. You ask to be shifted to a more suitable location and are offered the 95000dhs accom allowance and told go ahead. Unfortunately, a Villa will cost upwards of 120000dhs, plus water and electricity, in the areas where the schools are.
4. The same school coincidentally has fees that are far outside what the company covers. You say "This was the only school that had a space, can you help with the fees". They say "Yes we know, sorry but thats how it goes".
5. You enroll your child at said school in KG1, because that is when the company starts paying for education, and half way through the year they say "Sorry, we have just applied a different interpretation to the education policy and we no longer will cover your school fees this year". You say, "But you covered them last year, and you should have told us before we enrolled our children". They say "yes we know, sorry but that's the way it goes".
6. You are forced take your leave in at least 2 blocks, and try to get on an Emirates aircraft at 2 AM with your young family on an ID90 and can't because the aircraft are always full and there are 800 pilots and their families more senior to you, so you say "It doesn't seem reasonable that i am forced to take my holidays in 2 blocks, but only get one annual leave ticket". They say "yes we know, sorry but that's how it goes".
I could go on and on , but i am sure you get the gist. When i arrived i was told about all the things the guys before me had, like club memberships etc. I thought well that would have been nice, but things have changed and i am happy with the package that i have been offered. The problem is that the "package" is constantly being chipped away. You should be aware that we have no contract here. Our conditions can and are changed continually, (never for the better) with no consultation or right of appeal.
All of the above is fact, except for the bit about direct entry captains. I mentioned it because once again there are many rumours starting to surface. Some people have said to me that they are fact, but i have not heard that from any source that i would call authoritive. But my experience here tells me that where there is smoke there is fire. Additionally, it makes sense for the following reason.
Late last year our DFO cut the pay and conditions of our training captains significantly. As a result, they are having great difficulty recruiting more training captains. This is not a problem on the 777 as we are not expanding that fleet at present. On the 330 however, we are getting 11 aircraft which would need 22 training captains, and also 88 line captains and 176 F/O's. It is feasible that due to the lack of training captain applicants, we may not be able to train all these people. Given our DFO's penchant for finding scapegoats, i feel that he may float the idea of DEC's to cover his mistake of pi$$ing off the entire training department. It will be something along the lines of "Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but due to the lack of suitable training captain applicants, i have been forced to accept direct entry captains". Then he will refer again to UAL and warn us that if we dont lift our game, and work harder for less, we could end up in the same situation".
My parting shot goes something like this.
I am quite happy that i made the decision to come here. Emirates has been good for me simply because i was one of they many lucky ones who got a quick command on a modern widebody. This will enable me to go searching for a more suitable job at the earliest opportunity, which will in turn allow me to take my family back home, which is where we all want to be.
If you do the numbers the future is not so rosy. We have just over 750 pilots now, with around 900 by years end. At present the corporate plan is to have 100 aircraft by 2010. We run 8 crews per aircraft, so that will be 800 Captains by 2010, give or take a few extra because of management pilots and extra crews on the 340. It follows then that if you join later this year, you may not get a command until 2010. F/O salaries have not gone up in real terms in over 10 years. I can assure you, you will not be happy facing the prospect of 6 or more years in DXB on an F/O's salary.
It is always possible that Emirates will announce another massive expansion which will accelerate commands again. It does not appear that this is likely though as the airport is at capacity now. They are adding 2 new terminals exclusively for emirates use, to cater for the fleet size of 100, which will again put the airport at max capacity. Already to achieve just this, the runways have to be moved to allow Simops. There are plans for a new airport at Jebel Ali. Until this is announced and has a date attached to it, i dont think you will here about any more massive expansions within emirates.
So to all you wannabee Emirates dudes, come over and have a look. You will find a great bunch of blokes to work with, good weather, reasonable pay, a nice lifestyle and a very impressive soft sell from the recruiting guys. Just don't be fooled into thinking that all is as it seems. Give yourself a few days and talk to as many of the guys as you can. You will find a great cross section of views. Certainly not everyone shares my views. Some love it here and never plan to leave. Some hate it and can't wait to leave. I'm somehwere in the middle. I dont hate it, I dont love it, i just recognise that it has been worth my while coming here, but i would like to leave at the earliest opportunity.
DMF
It is always nice to hear positive comments from positive people. I think everyone brings a nice pair of rose colored glasses when they come to Dubai, I know i certainly did. But after a couple of years reality sets in. Many of us here are now just biding our time, waiting for our hours to build so that if and when better paying jobs, that allow us to go home, present themselves, we will be off like a shot. Consider the following and let me know if you will still be happy.
1. You are queue jumped by a direct entry captain.
2. You were lied to about the profit share and on arrival told that "sorry we have changed the rules and you now need to be here 12 months instead of 6 before you get any profit share. You reply "but when i signed my contract, the rules said only 6 months", they reply "yes we know, sorry but thats how it goes".
3. Your accomodation is across the other side of town from the only school that you are lucky enough to find a space in for your child. Then you have to spend around 2 hours per day in traffic dropping off and picking up kids. Not to mention the waitning time because the said school has up to three different pick up times for your children, and it is not feasible to get home and back in between. You ask to be shifted to a more suitable location and are offered the 95000dhs accom allowance and told go ahead. Unfortunately, a Villa will cost upwards of 120000dhs, plus water and electricity, in the areas where the schools are.
4. The same school coincidentally has fees that are far outside what the company covers. You say "This was the only school that had a space, can you help with the fees". They say "Yes we know, sorry but thats how it goes".
5. You enroll your child at said school in KG1, because that is when the company starts paying for education, and half way through the year they say "Sorry, we have just applied a different interpretation to the education policy and we no longer will cover your school fees this year". You say, "But you covered them last year, and you should have told us before we enrolled our children". They say "yes we know, sorry but that's the way it goes".
6. You are forced take your leave in at least 2 blocks, and try to get on an Emirates aircraft at 2 AM with your young family on an ID90 and can't because the aircraft are always full and there are 800 pilots and their families more senior to you, so you say "It doesn't seem reasonable that i am forced to take my holidays in 2 blocks, but only get one annual leave ticket". They say "yes we know, sorry but that's how it goes".
I could go on and on , but i am sure you get the gist. When i arrived i was told about all the things the guys before me had, like club memberships etc. I thought well that would have been nice, but things have changed and i am happy with the package that i have been offered. The problem is that the "package" is constantly being chipped away. You should be aware that we have no contract here. Our conditions can and are changed continually, (never for the better) with no consultation or right of appeal.
All of the above is fact, except for the bit about direct entry captains. I mentioned it because once again there are many rumours starting to surface. Some people have said to me that they are fact, but i have not heard that from any source that i would call authoritive. But my experience here tells me that where there is smoke there is fire. Additionally, it makes sense for the following reason.
Late last year our DFO cut the pay and conditions of our training captains significantly. As a result, they are having great difficulty recruiting more training captains. This is not a problem on the 777 as we are not expanding that fleet at present. On the 330 however, we are getting 11 aircraft which would need 22 training captains, and also 88 line captains and 176 F/O's. It is feasible that due to the lack of training captain applicants, we may not be able to train all these people. Given our DFO's penchant for finding scapegoats, i feel that he may float the idea of DEC's to cover his mistake of pi$$ing off the entire training department. It will be something along the lines of "Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but due to the lack of suitable training captain applicants, i have been forced to accept direct entry captains". Then he will refer again to UAL and warn us that if we dont lift our game, and work harder for less, we could end up in the same situation".
My parting shot goes something like this.
I am quite happy that i made the decision to come here. Emirates has been good for me simply because i was one of they many lucky ones who got a quick command on a modern widebody. This will enable me to go searching for a more suitable job at the earliest opportunity, which will in turn allow me to take my family back home, which is where we all want to be.
If you do the numbers the future is not so rosy. We have just over 750 pilots now, with around 900 by years end. At present the corporate plan is to have 100 aircraft by 2010. We run 8 crews per aircraft, so that will be 800 Captains by 2010, give or take a few extra because of management pilots and extra crews on the 340. It follows then that if you join later this year, you may not get a command until 2010. F/O salaries have not gone up in real terms in over 10 years. I can assure you, you will not be happy facing the prospect of 6 or more years in DXB on an F/O's salary.
It is always possible that Emirates will announce another massive expansion which will accelerate commands again. It does not appear that this is likely though as the airport is at capacity now. They are adding 2 new terminals exclusively for emirates use, to cater for the fleet size of 100, which will again put the airport at max capacity. Already to achieve just this, the runways have to be moved to allow Simops. There are plans for a new airport at Jebel Ali. Until this is announced and has a date attached to it, i dont think you will here about any more massive expansions within emirates.
So to all you wannabee Emirates dudes, come over and have a look. You will find a great bunch of blokes to work with, good weather, reasonable pay, a nice lifestyle and a very impressive soft sell from the recruiting guys. Just don't be fooled into thinking that all is as it seems. Give yourself a few days and talk to as many of the guys as you can. You will find a great cross section of views. Certainly not everyone shares my views. Some love it here and never plan to leave. Some hate it and can't wait to leave. I'm somehwere in the middle. I dont hate it, I dont love it, i just recognise that it has been worth my while coming here, but i would like to leave at the earliest opportunity.
DMF
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DMF - I've certainly not come out here with rose coloured specs!!!
I think you'll find that people joining now haven't come for the money (what money ??) or to get rich. I certainly haven't. I've come here so my family can live somewhere decent and not in grimy, dank crappy UK.
Oh yes, the school that my children go to is about a 30 minute roundtrip, and they do come out at different times of day. BUT we don't have a problem with that. The kids need schooling, simple.
You did mention the one thing that would be a real pisser and that's direct entry captains. Will they or won't they ?? We'll have to wait and see.
Other than that it's pretty much as I expected - any where you go the company you work for is going to take the piss. I'd rather have the piss taken here than elsewhere.
Bullshot - kids only grow into pouting little expats if their parents let them. Have you had a bad experience with other peoples pouting little kids ??
I think you'll find that people joining now haven't come for the money (what money ??) or to get rich. I certainly haven't. I've come here so my family can live somewhere decent and not in grimy, dank crappy UK.
Oh yes, the school that my children go to is about a 30 minute roundtrip, and they do come out at different times of day. BUT we don't have a problem with that. The kids need schooling, simple.
You did mention the one thing that would be a real pisser and that's direct entry captains. Will they or won't they ?? We'll have to wait and see.
Other than that it's pretty much as I expected - any where you go the company you work for is going to take the piss. I'd rather have the piss taken here than elsewhere.
Bullshot - kids only grow into pouting little expats if their parents let them. Have you had a bad experience with other peoples pouting little kids ??
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I was wondering why nobody is mentioning the possibility of the (fairly) cushy situation at EK being blown to smithereens. They are after all sitting right in the middle of the biggest powderkeg the world has seen since ī39.
You do all keep an eye on world events these days, and donīt really believe that if the sh*t really hits the fan, liberal old UAE wonīt be affected?
You do all keep an eye on world events these days, and donīt really believe that if the sh*t really hits the fan, liberal old UAE wonīt be affected?