Virgin Atlantic
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks dickflys and scroggs. I think the problem we all have is the slow but inexorable deterioration to our t&C's whoever we fly for. Certainly in the past 3 years my tt at work has increased, along with other irritations and the days of a quiet winter for the charter pilots are very definately numbered. Observe Airtours and Brittania transforming themselves into low cost operators. The point is, having realised that the golden age of being an airline pilot is well and truly over and wherever you work, you're going to be worked hard are we better off doing 12 sectors a month at VS or 32 sectors a month at MyTravel or Easy? Tough question to answer, the short haul guys mostly get home at nights, but at least VS guys and gals get a pint at the end of their working day!!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not cabin crew, sorry about that.
You need a beer at the end of a 14 hour flight with an eight hour time change and your body completely upside down. Oh yeah, it's great fun! Party till you retire then drop dead, although there aren't any parties anymore!
You need a beer at the end of a 14 hour flight with an eight hour time change and your body completely upside down. Oh yeah, it's great fun! Party till you retire then drop dead, although there aren't any parties anymore!
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My last FDP on a HKG/LHR was 15:30, and, even with in flight rest, this was no "doddle". I had peviously been called out for a LAX and had just 2 nights at home before the HKG. I assume you understand the significance of the time change Chokdee, so if you are suggesting that we have a high quality of life which we earn by accepting low pay compared to you, you are mistaken. Virgin is just like any other Airline, it treats it's people just like any other Airline, it just pays them less because the staff (so far) let them get away with it.
If anyone fancies a change of scenery, then by all means jump across the fence to Virgin, only, don't expect anything different from your current job.
If anyone fancies a change of scenery, then by all means jump across the fence to Virgin, only, don't expect anything different from your current job.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hive
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scroggs, I have to disagree with you.
You stated time to command is 5 years minimum.
F/O's currently employed by Virgin who are at, or near the bottom of the seniority list, will have to wait for the company to expand by 35 aircraft before they even get a sniff of a command.
Do the maths; to get a command in 5 years:
35 aircraft divided by 5 = 7
7 new B747’s or A340’s per year; Feasible? I think not.
F/O’s Basic salary.
The real F/O’s Basic salary is 38k, not the 40k you were estimating. Some £86 per month (net) less than your indication.
Easy lifestyle.
Beware all you short haulers - Virgin’s rosters are neither easy or stable. On the B744 you will fly around 85 hours per month. This might look a walk in the park, but do not underestimate the effects of jetlag, combined with losing a nights sleep on each trip.
Scroggs, looking at your profile, I see that your previous career was with the RAF (22 years)… So I guess that your pension, from Her Majesty, is around £10,000 per year - this probably helps you to afford the smug air of comfort you exude. There is also more than a faint whiff of management about you, so, perhaps a management salary as well?
Whilst flying my exhausting roster, I have the pleasure of flying with many colleagues. Not once in the last three years have I flown with anybody that shares your opinion of Virgin.
Finally, we all have a responsibility to our colleagues across the industry to tell the truth. Seniority is a precious thing, so think very carefully before you throw it away.
You stated time to command is 5 years minimum.
F/O's currently employed by Virgin who are at, or near the bottom of the seniority list, will have to wait for the company to expand by 35 aircraft before they even get a sniff of a command.
Do the maths; to get a command in 5 years:
35 aircraft divided by 5 = 7
7 new B747’s or A340’s per year; Feasible? I think not.
F/O’s Basic salary.
The real F/O’s Basic salary is 38k, not the 40k you were estimating. Some £86 per month (net) less than your indication.
Easy lifestyle.
Beware all you short haulers - Virgin’s rosters are neither easy or stable. On the B744 you will fly around 85 hours per month. This might look a walk in the park, but do not underestimate the effects of jetlag, combined with losing a nights sleep on each trip.
Scroggs, looking at your profile, I see that your previous career was with the RAF (22 years)… So I guess that your pension, from Her Majesty, is around £10,000 per year - this probably helps you to afford the smug air of comfort you exude. There is also more than a faint whiff of management about you, so, perhaps a management salary as well?
Whilst flying my exhausting roster, I have the pleasure of flying with many colleagues. Not once in the last three years have I flown with anybody that shares your opinion of Virgin.
Finally, we all have a responsibility to our colleagues across the industry to tell the truth. Seniority is a precious thing, so think very carefully before you throw it away.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ADN345/17dme,ish
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Norma Spartz
I did not suggest that Virgin has "a high quality of life which we earn by accepting low pay". My point was one of flight time, not FDP. I am sorry for the confusion. I would however, like to know who you are comparing salaries with, when you say that "it just pays them less.
I did not suggest that Virgin has "a high quality of life which we earn by accepting low pay". My point was one of flight time, not FDP. I am sorry for the confusion. I would however, like to know who you are comparing salaries with, when you say that "it just pays them less.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Chokdee, some excellent research has been done by our CC as part of our current pay claim. Comparisons were made with all of the major European and Far Eastern carriers who operate similar routes and equipment, and included levels of pay, benefits, seat cost/mile, produtivity of the workforce etc. The conclusion was that we're getting shafted.
To get back to the original point of this thread - the grass is not green here at the moment. There is considerable anger and frustration at the relentless erosion of our terms and conditions and I would not be surprised to see some form of industrial action taking place before Christmas. Don't come here for the lifestyle either. As I write, I've no idea what I am doing next month - no roster, no explanation.
One positive though, time to command for those at the bottom of the list is improving all the time as the number of leavers accelerates!
To get back to the original point of this thread - the grass is not green here at the moment. There is considerable anger and frustration at the relentless erosion of our terms and conditions and I would not be surprised to see some form of industrial action taking place before Christmas. Don't come here for the lifestyle either. As I write, I've no idea what I am doing next month - no roster, no explanation.
One positive though, time to command for those at the bottom of the list is improving all the time as the number of leavers accelerates!
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buzzzz
You seem to take exception to one of my posts. Perhaps I can remind you (and others) of the paragraph which seems to have raised your bile:
You'll note that I do not set myself up as the font of all knowledge on the subject, but I doubt that there's much in this paragraph that is far from the truth. Your time-to-captaincy calculations are very impressive, and may yet turn out to be correct; who knows? All I said was that time to command was currently an unknown and would be a minimum of five years. Is that so wrong? You dispute my suggestion that starting pay is 'about £40k'. I'm sorry if it wasn't correct to 2 decimal places, but it's in the right ballpark. Anyone seriously interested in discovering greater detail can do so quite easily. As for your attempts to disparage my character and position, I won't dignify them with an argument. There are plenty both here and in the airline who know who I am; do a little research and you will too, if you're really interested.
As for your final comment to others about not throwing away seniority lightly, I totally agree.
You seem to take exception to one of my posts. Perhaps I can remind you (and others) of the paragraph which seems to have raised your bile:
Virgin's T&C's aren't the best, and there is considerable and vocal discussion going on right now about that subject between the company and the CC. I'd say that trading conditions right now are unlikely to support a large increase now, but that a substantial improvement in the future is on the cards. However, this is only my opinion! If you want a comparison on current pay and benefits, try this site: Airline Pay Comparisons . It's not totally up-to-date, but it's not far off. The pension is a defined contribution one, with the company contributing 15% of gross pay. Starting pay for an FO is about 40K, rising to 55K after 18 years (time to command is an unknown right now, but bank on 5 years minimum). Maximum hours is 750 pa. Days off can be down route, but aren't often. I get about 12-14 days at home a month and three or four trips (I'm Airbus - the 744 guys do more, shorter, trips).
As for your final comment to others about not throwing away seniority lightly, I totally agree.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ADN345/17dme,ish
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the reply Norma. I think that your CC need to be very careful in comparing the salaries of Airlines, particularly in the Far East, Korean as an example. This is due to contract pilots earning far more than local pilots, as is most often the case. If you start comparing the likes of Thai Airways, who don't employ ex pats now, then the picture painted would differ from its current guise. I guess that you will get in the region of 8%, and I am sure you would agree that strike action would be detrimental to the company in the long run. Good luck!.
