Airline employment
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
I wonder if the "Yays" are secretly Flight School owners or have invested interest ?
Thanks for considered advice that I will pass on. I liked, in particular,,just giving website info which will be bang up to date.
Thread opener did clarify that questions asked of me were related to employment entry, not what I thought of the career or risks involved in pursuing. Of course, those who passionately want to become Airline Pilots will do so via any route.
In 1966, having failed BOAC/BEA Hamble (first stage), BUA (First stage) and readying for my second attempt at RAF (Cranwell Cadetship-Yes. Failed but offered Type B entry for Training as Nav. I just said "NO")), I secured employment with Caledonian as a Trainee Crew Rostering Assistant. I quickly befriended the Chief Pilot & then after buying him a Big Mac during lunch break in Crawley, asked if Cally would enter the sponsored pilot training market by sponsoring me to AST Perth. He larfed,and larfed, and larfed. Every time he saw me in the corridor outside Crewing, he larfed and larfed and larfed.
Still made it though.
Thanks for considered advice that I will pass on. I liked, in particular,,just giving website info which will be bang up to date.
Thread opener did clarify that questions asked of me were related to employment entry, not what I thought of the career or risks involved in pursuing. Of course, those who passionately want to become Airline Pilots will do so via any route.
In 1966, having failed BOAC/BEA Hamble (first stage), BUA (First stage) and readying for my second attempt at RAF (Cranwell Cadetship-Yes. Failed but offered Type B entry for Training as Nav. I just said "NO")), I secured employment with Caledonian as a Trainee Crew Rostering Assistant. I quickly befriended the Chief Pilot & then after buying him a Big Mac during lunch break in Crawley, asked if Cally would enter the sponsored pilot training market by sponsoring me to AST Perth. He larfed,and larfed, and larfed. Every time he saw me in the corridor outside Crewing, he larfed and larfed and larfed.
Still made it though.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Likes: 10
From: UK
ten ; VP did say ""Arguably". Faced with all the above, just getting to the min qual stage of being in a position to apply for a airline job seems daunting. And as to loads of ""Fully sponsored" deals being around-; really ? By whom ? And at what cost ?
My "fully sponsored course" in 1971 was all fees paid, full board and accommodation,full local education authority grant (paid for my petrol getting from Oxford tp Brighton & back almost every week-end !). Pay-back-? We had to come up with one third of the CPL?IR course, repaid to the sponsoring airline over 5 years out of salary. Didn't even feel it.
Anything like that around today ?
Recently, one UK airline was charging a fee just to have the CV read.
Paying for type rating ? Gosh, it was considered unprofessional Until , during one downturn time, bods, well, rich bods, were doing that and securing jobs with people like VA onto the 74.
Anyway, past is past. I was interested in the current news and views in order to correctly advise the bunch of keen chaps around. I am loathe to recommend and warn Mum & Dad that they are in for a mighty request.
.
On a warm note. Just before I succeeded, way back, running out of time, I did ask my Dad for the 5000 quid (ueah, really, 5000). He said he had the money but the answr was no. Rotter. Don't think he liked me.
My "fully sponsored course" in 1971 was all fees paid, full board and accommodation,full local education authority grant (paid for my petrol getting from Oxford tp Brighton & back almost every week-end !). Pay-back-? We had to come up with one third of the CPL?IR course, repaid to the sponsoring airline over 5 years out of salary. Didn't even feel it.
Anything like that around today ?
Recently, one UK airline was charging a fee just to have the CV read.
Paying for type rating ? Gosh, it was considered unprofessional Until , during one downturn time, bods, well, rich bods, were doing that and securing jobs with people like VA onto the 74.
Anyway, past is past. I was interested in the current news and views in order to correctly advise the bunch of keen chaps around. I am loathe to recommend and warn Mum & Dad that they are in for a mighty request.
.
On a warm note. Just before I succeeded, way back, running out of time, I did ask my Dad for the 5000 quid (ueah, really, 5000). He said he had the money but the answr was no. Rotter. Don't think he liked me.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
Cripes, time in the PPrune Rehab joint, accused of people having to listen to me every night in the pub ( i wish.Clear the joint immediately when I roll up in my old uniform shirts and ask the Ruski bar-maids " Did I ever tell you how I got into flying?') Oh, and ëvery"night (?)- Poor little old has-been Penshi here Dad-.............And, "harping"on.............. Dear Lord.
I see why there is little to recommend this career (sorry Flight School Owners) and Moms & Dads, Pleeeeze, don't even think of it, even though it is dumbed down where even Nav Plotting is, probably, multi choice. Der, Mac Kator, or Stereo Head,, I mean , stereo Graffik- . 25 grand for that with Junior telling you he/she will pay you back...............Really.............. ?
Off to Aya Nappa for the Xmas fun. Kids there think Madj Genta is a pop group.
I see why there is little to recommend this career (sorry Flight School Owners) and Moms & Dads, Pleeeeze, don't even think of it, even though it is dumbed down where even Nav Plotting is, probably, multi choice. Der, Mac Kator, or Stereo Head,, I mean , stereo Graffik- . 25 grand for that with Junior telling you he/she will pay you back...............Really.............. ?
Off to Aya Nappa for the Xmas fun. Kids there think Madj Genta is a pop group.
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 8
Likes: 10
From: United Kingdom
Cripes, time in the PPrune Rehab joint, accused of people having to listen to me every night in the pub ( i wish. Clear the joint immediately when I roll up in my old uniform shirts and ask the Ruski bar-maids " Did I ever tell you how I got into flying?') Oh, and ëvery" night (?)- Poor little old has-been Penshi here Dad-.............And, "harping" on.............. Dear Lord.
.
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As a newly qualified and newly employed pilot, sometimes I feel not only like I live in a different universe but speak an entirely different language to some of the users on this forum.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
Let’s just agree that it isn’t the career it once was. However, there aren’t many occupations that potentially pay what flying does, (if you can get into a big company) for the outlay in time and money. Horses for courses.
Joined: Aug 2022
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 240
Likes: 152
From: Edinburgh
Agreed.... I had two previous careers (both of which required degree level qualifications) before finally getting into aviation, and aviation has been by far the most financially rewarding, secure, low stress and enjoyable job of the lot of them. I sometimes wonder what life experience outside of aviation a lot of people here have...
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 29
Likes: 9
From: Scotland
You don’t even need wealthy parents if you have the determination. Any healthy person with no responsibilities (kids, caring etc) living at home can save to become a pilot. (I know because I did it)
Unfortunately social media and TV Shows with the orange bunch advertise it that only people with a leavers hoodie & £120k can do it
The good thing for us that were determined is that the work required puts a lot of people off which means more jobs for the rest of us.
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 14
Likes: 4
From: Moldova
I would just change the "anybody" with "some people".
It's hard when there's a threat of not getting employed and your 100k loan comes due and you're making 1000 euro per month because you didn't get a job in aviation. God forbid if there's a lengthy downturn for a few years then you're house buying money in the red with no house and no significant income.
I'm saying this as someone who self financed as well.
It's hard when there's a threat of not getting employed and your 100k loan comes due and you're making 1000 euro per month because you didn't get a job in aviation. God forbid if there's a lengthy downturn for a few years then you're house buying money in the red with no house and no significant income.
I'm saying this as someone who self financed as well.
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 29
Likes: 9
From: Scotland
I would just change the "anybody" with "some people".
It's hard when there's a threat of not getting employed and your 100k loan comes due and you're making 1000 euro per month because you didn't get a job in aviation. God forbid if there's a lengthy downturn for a few years then you're house buying money in the red with no house and no significant income.
I'm saying this as someone who self financed as well.
It's hard when there's a threat of not getting employed and your 100k loan comes due and you're making 1000 euro per month because you didn't get a job in aviation. God forbid if there's a lengthy downturn for a few years then you're house buying money in the red with no house and no significant income.
I'm saying this as someone who self financed as well.
If you take out a 100k loan then more fool you. It’s very easy to do with minimal debt.(In the UK anyway)
I worked 3 jobs / 70-80hrs a week between 18-25, qualified with only £20k in debt and get my first pilot job until 3 years later which by that time I was debt free.
After I qualified I worked an airline ops job for 6 months (not the company I ended up flying for) and we worked 4 on / 4 off shifts.
A good few of younger members of the ops department were aspiring pilots and always commented on how they couldn’t afford to train. The horrified looks I got from them when I suggested maybe taking on a second job for 2-3 of their off days “oh I can’t do that after working 48 hours in 4 days” 😂
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 299
Likes: 183
From: newbury
The job market is pretty good - my fear if I did it now is that there are so few airlines as opposed to 30 years ago , that if you screw up a couple of selections , you may have to think tangentially for the next set .
As for hard work - yes , all the low cost out and backs are hard work . A lot of people go part time or into Long haul ( this for me has its own issues ), but for £100k a year plus , they’ll want their pound of flesh .
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
Probs : Damn, it was good though. I'll close. Tempted to take this offering over to the "Nostalgia" section but can't be arsed to start a new thread.
One of the endless bunch of old boys, I recall driving back up to Oxford in my MG Midget after another week-end off at home in Brighton - pulled in for petrol just south of LHR, using my local Council Further Education Allowance)- alongside pulled up a MGB. Guy in one-stripe- uniform. pax seat occupied by big overnight case. As we eased ourselves back into driving seats, I leaned across and asked :"BOAC ?". "Of course" he replied and looked at my MG version asking "BEA guess !" I let him roar off before getting the chance to correctly inform that my Sponsor was BKS.
Nuff said.
Thanks for the more worthy advice given for me to steer the wannabees towards..I'll do that and wish them well.
One of the endless bunch of old boys, I recall driving back up to Oxford in my MG Midget after another week-end off at home in Brighton - pulled in for petrol just south of LHR, using my local Council Further Education Allowance)- alongside pulled up a MGB. Guy in one-stripe- uniform. pax seat occupied by big overnight case. As we eased ourselves back into driving seats, I leaned across and asked :"BOAC ?". "Of course" he replied and looked at my MG version asking "BEA guess !" I let him roar off before getting the chance to correctly inform that my Sponsor was BKS.
Nuff said.
Thanks for the more worthy advice given for me to steer the wannabees towards..I'll do that and wish them well.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 394
Likes: 1
From: UK
BKS - haven't heard of that airline name for years so I looked it up:
Key Facts
Key Facts
- Founded: February 1952 as BKS Aero Charter
- Renamed: Became BKS Air Transport in 1953
- Final Name: Renamed Northeast Airlines in 1970
- Ceased: Fully merged into British Airways in 1976
- Bases: Leeds/Bradford and Newcastle
- Parent Group: British Air Services, later absorbed into BA
Joined: May 2004
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 965
Likes: 46
From: Ташкент
A CPL ME/IR and MCC packaged beautifully into a frozen ATPL wrapper. And 25k for a type rating.
That’s literally it and has been for years if not decades.
That’s literally it and has been for years if not decades.
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 6
Likes: 6
From: A
Probs : Damn, it was good though. I'll close. Tempted to take this offering over to the "Nostalgia" section but can't be arsed to start a new thread.
One of the endless bunch of old boys, I recall driving back up to Oxford in my MG Midget after another week-end off at home in Brighton - pulled in for petrol just south of LHR, using my local Council Further Education Allowance)- alongside pulled up a MGB. Guy in one-stripe- uniform. pax seat occupied by big overnight case. As we eased ourselves back into driving seats, I leaned across and asked :"BOAC ?". "Of course" he replied and looked at my MG version asking "BEA guess !" I let him roar off before getting the chance to correctly inform that my Sponsor was BKS.
Nuff said.
Thanks for the more worthy advice given for me to steer the wannabees towards..I'll do that and wish them well.
One of the endless bunch of old boys, I recall driving back up to Oxford in my MG Midget after another week-end off at home in Brighton - pulled in for petrol just south of LHR, using my local Council Further Education Allowance)- alongside pulled up a MGB. Guy in one-stripe- uniform. pax seat occupied by big overnight case. As we eased ourselves back into driving seats, I leaned across and asked :"BOAC ?". "Of course" he replied and looked at my MG version asking "BEA guess !" I let him roar off before getting the chance to correctly inform that my Sponsor was BKS.
Nuff said.
Thanks for the more worthy advice given for me to steer the wannabees towards..I'll do that and wish them well.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
Elemeno ; Sorry to note that you have difficulty in understanding the enquiry posed in the opener. Look up " Terms"", "Conditions" in your native English dictionary..I thought it reasonable to seek responses that might help those asking questions of me.
I agree, instead of just blasting in, a quick review of other thread titles might have offered better options.
Thankfully, on this thread, I still got what I was seeking from other more professional responses.
Now, do have an irritated, quick to anger, humourless over-reactionary bash at Shaman for entertaining us with a quick history of BKS.
................................Cripes. did I ever tell you how I won a free PPL under National competition at Shoreham ?............................ !
OK, ok, Sharman,, lets get outa this place
I agree, instead of just blasting in, a quick review of other thread titles might have offered better options.
Thankfully, on this thread, I still got what I was seeking from other more professional responses.
Now, do have an irritated, quick to anger, humourless over-reactionary bash at Shaman for entertaining us with a quick history of BKS.
................................Cripes. did I ever tell you how I won a free PPL under National competition at Shoreham ?............................ !
OK, ok, Sharman,, lets get outa this place