Airline employment
 

Pub (Taverna) settler please. Quite a few youngsters asking what airlines request for employment these days.

In my day, CPL/IR. Perf A. CPL acceptable to the licencing Authority governing the airline, of course. But I/R ? And, Perf A ("what the hell is that ?"- asked one quizer).

All changed so much these days, just want to be sure I give out the right info and where best to qualify using Bank of Mom & Dad - luvley old "Approved"" schools gone, I think and,gosh, lucky in the day to have full sponsored Airline Cadet Schemes to places like Hamble,OATS, AST Perth ,etc.

Thanks.

Don't know about today, but when I started in 2000, everyone expected you to have at least a frozen ATPL(A) to be considered.

A CPL ME/IR and MCC packaged beautifully into a frozen ATPL wrapper. And 25k for a type rating.

That’s literally it and has been for years if not decades. They should be able to figure that one out!

You forgot 'wealthy parents'. :)

There are a similar number of fully sponsored airline cadet schemes around as there were several decades ago too.

Theres quite a few and competition will be fierce . It’s amazing how many people self select really early “ if they paid for my licence they’d attract more talent “.

always amazes me - people pay for degrees do they not ?

For an EASA CS25 job these days you need to have the following at a very minimum:

• CPL
• ME-IR with PBN*
• ATPL theory credit (very few airlines care about the grades or number of retakes/sittings and all that stuff)
• Advanced UPRT as per Part-FCL.745.A
• MCC (it doesn't have to be an APS MCC except for a few airlines that require it)
• ICAO ELP level 4 (English Language Proficiency)
• Class 1 Medical

*Two notes on this:
1) Requiring PBN is more or less redundant these days but airlines still do it.
2) The ME-IR doesn't technically need to be valid to commence a type rating course, it's enough to have had it in the past. However, many airlines still require a valid IR when applying and/or joining the company.

Ouch. Had no idea it was next to impossible ! It was hard enough trying to get sponsored training and the alternative ; the self improver route was littered with obstacles, in my day.

Making it today is the stuff of heroes. Hearty congrats to all who succeed.

I'll tell the pub quizers to join the RAF..........................nah, ok !.......................

Nothing impossible about it at all, arguably one of the best times to become a pilot in decades

Absolutely , it’s just a few more courses and TLAs ,
when they ask me about this stuff , I point out I’m from a time before UPRT, MCC etc !

chopping of self-improvers route, then later on introducing that 150h zero to glass thingy (MPL)
both mistakes

I hope you mean only by becoming one because certainly not in terms of conditions and pay

ten ; VP did say ""Arguably". Faced with all the above, just getting to the min qual stage of being in a position to apply for a airline job seems daunting. And as to loads of ""Fully sponsored" deals being around-; really ? By whom ? And at what cost ?

My "fully sponsored course" in 1971 was all fees paid, full board and accommodation,full local education authority grant (paid for my petrol getting from Oxford tp Brighton & back almost every week-end !). Pay-back-? We had to come up with one third of the CPL?IR course, repaid to the sponsoring airline over 5 years out of salary. Didn't even feel it.

Anything like that around today ?

Recently, one UK airline was charging a fee just to have the CV read.

Paying for type rating ? Gosh, it was considered unprofessional Until , during one downturn time, bods, well, rich bods, were doing that and securing jobs with people like VA onto the 74.

Anyway, past is past. I was interested in the current news and views in order to correctly advise the bunch of keen chaps around. I am loathe to recommend and warn Mum & Dad that they are in for a mighty request.
.
On a warm note. Just before I succeeded, way back, running out of time, I did ask my Dad for the 5000 quid (ueah, really, 5000). He said he had the money but the answr was no. Rotter. Don't think he liked me.

Gordomac there’s some useful information on the BALPA website that you could pass on to those showing an interest https://www.balpa.org/becoming-a-pilot/

Pre-Covid the sponsorships were definitely few and far between, BA did some and Virgin did a tiny amount of actually funded ones. Bit of loan repayments etc so not as good as the ones of past.

But since Covid, imagine spurred on by the post brexit issues for people with right to work, EASA vs CAA license considerations to consider, it’s been phenomenal.

Many hundreds of fully funded courses. No loans, no nonsense, fully funded courses. Jet2, TUI, BA, rumours of Wizz. And in the hundreds. Add them all up I’d say there’s about 300 of them a year, exceeding I’d imagine the entire throughput of the UK military’s flying training system.

They’re very hard to get, as they should be, but it does feel like we’re in a similar situation to the pre Gulf War 1 environment for sponsorships and hiring.

If I was advising someone leaving school, leaving uni, considering flying as a career, I’d be filling them with enthusiasm, a fantastic time to consider it!

Downside T&Cs at airlines continue to slip. Working environments getting harder with shorter rest periods and it's becoming a career almost impossible to continue full time until retirement.

If you're lucky enough to get a foot in the door at many other professional industries (not all). They've had massive pay increases and are on par with aviation now, large bonuses are returning + the new normal for a bit (significant chunk at some places) of WFH makes many look like very attractive perspectives compared to the antisocial hours and declining T&Cs in aviation.

If I was advising a young adult keen on flying I'd say get a job outside aviation but encourage them to enjoy it as a hobby with a PPL.

Really? Ts&Cs are doing well across the board because of the pilot supply becoming more restricted. Whilst there’s still a long way to go to an actual ‘shortage’, it seems a great time.

Pop out of flight school, join easyJet at 20 and we’re looking at the right side of 150K as a captain by 25/26. It’s easy to say every job in industry makes this sort of money but they just don’t. Not even remotely close to it. We’re looking at being in the top 2% of earners in our mid 20s. For a job that needs half a dozen GCSEs and takes about 18 months to train for…

And the best bit is that it’s a fab job. I’d take 150K to ping around Europe flying for ezy over doing 70h a week staring at spreadsheets in an office in the middle of London any day of the week. No copeorate nonsense, no endlessly changing targets, no burnout by 40.

The hours are the hours. I don’t see how a fixed pattern at Ryanair today is notably worse than a fixed pattern at Ryanair 20 years ago. The employment practices are definitely much improved..!

Gordomac, the best advice you could give them is to provide this website’s details and then stop advising them.

The current sponsorship and prospects for new pilots are better than they have been for many decades, but you sound like you still think it is impossible. Your friends down the pub do not stand a chance of success if they listen to you each evening. I mean no disrespect by that, but if they genuinely want to succeed, they need far more positivity than you appear willing to provide.

And the easy bit is you don’t have to learn morse code or Astro nav any more apparently 😂

The bit that's missing is be 75\50 % of that by 30 and certainly 50% by 50.
Sure salary's are great but you burn out by your early 30s or do long term health damage. 5x4am wake ups or 2am bedtimes with multiple 12hr days on minimum rest is just not sustainable. Throw in the way seniority is and the CAS/EASA restrictions it's hard to job hop after 5/10 years in your relatively stuck where you are without huge income knocks. So your company's T&Cs tumble, Work life balance collapses your relatively stuck. Then your transferable skills outside of aviation are not really seen if you do want to exit.

By the time these kids get to 60 most around them will be working until at least 70.

I guess if you compare it to other jobs you can get with few qualifications sure it's great. You'll earn a lot more.
The reality is most coming into it 'could' have higher education qualifications if wanted and with them the likes of professions city roles in consultancy, finance, IT, law. Pulling similar earning for a longer period of time. With nice retirement part time consultancy type gigs in their 60/70s whilst winding down. No worries about staying stringently medically fit to maintain their income in later years, less worries about childcare/family life. Normal sleep patterns (with so much research showing how important to later life health sleep is this is important).

Dont get me wrong the job day to day I wouldn't want anything else. And the above makes me sound bitter. I'm not I'm grateful for my lot. I just don't think it was the job it was 20 years ago. And I wouldn't be advising a bright switched on person to turn to it.
Your health is so much more important than short term gains in income. And this jobs certainly kicked mine and many around me. And I can only see the future being worse in that sense.