Emirates DEC
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 395
Likes: 8
From: UK
Fair comment.
What is the most important skill a pilot needs, to operate with any degree of safety? My answer is to be ABLE to FLY the aircraft.
Everyone is so fixated with the automatics, not to much thought has gone into, how will this person will cope, if the automatics fail? In most cases not very well.
This was beginning to rare its ugly head 20years ago before I retired. Example, Asian airline, linecheck, on approach checkpilot pulled the A/P CB. The pilot flying couldn't cope. Turned into an incident. Ok the time to do this stunt is in the simulator, not in the a/c loaded with passengers.
This incompetence has crept into the industry to the extend the FAA are very concerned. 20 years late but better late than never. It has caused at least one loss of an A/C. You only have to watch any aircraft landing in adverse wind conditions. They have no idea, most of them. Not the crews fault, as they are unable to get any handling practice. Some outfits, manual flying is not allowed. Every time I strap my backside to an A/C these days I pray to (God) the autopilot don't quit.
As far as the other types of "suitablity" are concerned, these traits really cant be picked up at interview stage. Take a. recent case when a Captain punched a F/O, for telling him to slow down on the taxi. He didnt slow the taxi so brakes were applied, then the Captain hit him. Nice behaviour? I could go on, but most can take the point..When I was flying multi crew up to 3 , I would always invite critquec. Some would look at me as if I had come from Mars. Not encouraged these days I bet.That let the others know I made mistakes like everyone else.. There is a lot of psychology involved in getting the better out of people you are working with.
Flight deck? It was always cockpit in my day. One word fitted all. Take a Piper Cub for example, would you call the pilot seating area, a flghtdeck? Some of you youngsters need to get over yourselves. Only aeroplanes at the end of the day.
What is the most important skill a pilot needs, to operate with any degree of safety? My answer is to be ABLE to FLY the aircraft.
Everyone is so fixated with the automatics, not to much thought has gone into, how will this person will cope, if the automatics fail? In most cases not very well.
This was beginning to rare its ugly head 20years ago before I retired. Example, Asian airline, linecheck, on approach checkpilot pulled the A/P CB. The pilot flying couldn't cope. Turned into an incident. Ok the time to do this stunt is in the simulator, not in the a/c loaded with passengers.
This incompetence has crept into the industry to the extend the FAA are very concerned. 20 years late but better late than never. It has caused at least one loss of an A/C. You only have to watch any aircraft landing in adverse wind conditions. They have no idea, most of them. Not the crews fault, as they are unable to get any handling practice. Some outfits, manual flying is not allowed. Every time I strap my backside to an A/C these days I pray to (God) the autopilot don't quit.
As far as the other types of "suitablity" are concerned, these traits really cant be picked up at interview stage. Take a. recent case when a Captain punched a F/O, for telling him to slow down on the taxi. He didnt slow the taxi so brakes were applied, then the Captain hit him. Nice behaviour? I could go on, but most can take the point..When I was flying multi crew up to 3 , I would always invite critquec. Some would look at me as if I had come from Mars. Not encouraged these days I bet.That let the others know I made mistakes like everyone else.. There is a lot of psychology involved in getting the better out of people you are working with.
Flight deck? It was always cockpit in my day. One word fitted all. Take a Piper Cub for example, would you call the pilot seating area, a flghtdeck? Some of you youngsters need to get over yourselves. Only aeroplanes at the end of the day.
As you progress up the ranks, to ultimately command a multi-crew modern flight deck, then more skills and attributes apply, but I'd say an ability to fly the aircraft safely, is 101 stuff.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Likes: 7
From: ASIA
I think that you need to get a grip.
What makes you think that you know more than your airline, their security dept and the Ops teams?
No airline will want to lose an airframe, and they will not deliberately place it in harms way. EK and the UAE government will have better direct connections with neighbours than most.
Your job is to fly the aircraft and not second guess things like this.
So if you refuse, expect to be fired, and rightly so.
Maybe aviation is not for you?
What makes you think that you know more than your airline, their security dept and the Ops teams?
No airline will want to lose an airframe, and they will not deliberately place it in harms way. EK and the UAE government will have better direct connections with neighbours than most.
Your job is to fly the aircraft and not second guess things like this.
So if you refuse, expect to be fired, and rightly so.
Maybe aviation is not for you?
Joined: Dec 2025
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 215
Likes: 213
From: England
Fair comment.
What is the most important skill a pilot needs, to operate with any degree of safety? My answer is to be ABLE to FLY the aircraft.
Everyone is so fixated with the automatics, not to much thought has gone into, how will this person will cope, if the automatics fail? In most cases not very well.
This was beginning to rare its ugly head 20years ago before I retired. Example, Asian airline, linecheck, on approach checkpilot pulled the A/P CB. The pilot flying couldn't cope. Turned into an incident. Ok the time to do this stunt is in the simulator, not in the a/c loaded with passengers.
This incompetence has crept into the industry to the extend the FAA are very concerned. 20 years late but better late than never. It has caused at least one loss of an A/C. You only have to watch any aircraft landing in adverse wind conditions. They have no idea, most of them. Not the crews fault, as they are unable to get any handling practice. Some outfits, manual flying is not allowed. Every time I strap my backside to an A/C these days I pray to (God) the autopilot don't quit.
As far as the other types of "suitablity" are concerned, these traits really cant be picked up at interview stage. Take a. recent case when a Captain punched a F/O, for telling him to slow down on the taxi. He didnt slow the taxi so brakes were applied, then the Captain hit him. Nice behaviour? I could go on, but most can take the point..When I was flying multi crew up to 3 , I would always invite critquec. Some would look at me as if I had come from Mars. Not encouraged these days I bet.That let the others know I made mistakes like everyone else.. There is a lot of psychology involved in getting the better out of people you are working with.
Flight deck? It was always cockpit in my day. One word fitted all. Take a Piper Cub for example, would you call the pilot seating area, a flghtdeck? Some of you youngsters need to get over yourselves. Only aeroplanes at the end of the day.
What is the most important skill a pilot needs, to operate with any degree of safety? My answer is to be ABLE to FLY the aircraft.
Everyone is so fixated with the automatics, not to much thought has gone into, how will this person will cope, if the automatics fail? In most cases not very well.
This was beginning to rare its ugly head 20years ago before I retired. Example, Asian airline, linecheck, on approach checkpilot pulled the A/P CB. The pilot flying couldn't cope. Turned into an incident. Ok the time to do this stunt is in the simulator, not in the a/c loaded with passengers.
This incompetence has crept into the industry to the extend the FAA are very concerned. 20 years late but better late than never. It has caused at least one loss of an A/C. You only have to watch any aircraft landing in adverse wind conditions. They have no idea, most of them. Not the crews fault, as they are unable to get any handling practice. Some outfits, manual flying is not allowed. Every time I strap my backside to an A/C these days I pray to (God) the autopilot don't quit.
As far as the other types of "suitablity" are concerned, these traits really cant be picked up at interview stage. Take a. recent case when a Captain punched a F/O, for telling him to slow down on the taxi. He didnt slow the taxi so brakes were applied, then the Captain hit him. Nice behaviour? I could go on, but most can take the point..When I was flying multi crew up to 3 , I would always invite critquec. Some would look at me as if I had come from Mars. Not encouraged these days I bet.That let the others know I made mistakes like everyone else.. There is a lot of psychology involved in getting the better out of people you are working with.
Flight deck? It was always cockpit in my day. One word fitted all. Take a Piper Cub for example, would you call the pilot seating area, a flghtdeck? Some of you youngsters need to get over yourselves. Only aeroplanes at the end of the day.
As always the truth is probably somewhere in the middle to shortcut to the usual conclusion
and to reemphasise- there are FAR more people in the air simultaneously than any time in human existence with far less of them failing to reach their destinations
and personally/anecdotally I have to push back strongly against the idea that the past was the pinnacle of CRM and self reflection. There’s a reason why older captains are referred to as dinosaurs. There used to be multiple accidents a year directly attributable to terrible/non existent CRM and steep authority gradients, many of the more recent accidents have occurred in parts of the world/airlines where this archaic behaviour still rules.
The few hard days out I’ve had have almost exclusively occurred with captains with over 20 years of experience
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 39
Likes: 45
From: Cambridge
Fair comment.
What is the most important skill a pilot needs, to operate with any degree of safety? My answer is to be ABLE to FLY the aircraft.
Everyone is so fixated with the automatics, not to much thought has gone into, how will this person will cope, if the automatics fail? In most cases not very well.
This was beginning to rare its ugly head 20years ago before I retired. Example, Asian airline, linecheck, on approach checkpilot pulled the A/P CB. The pilot flying couldn't cope. Turned into an incident. Ok the time to do this stunt is in the simulator, not in the a/c loaded with passengers.
This incompetence has crept into the industry to the extend the FAA are very concerned. 20 years late but better late than never. It has caused at least one loss of an A/C. You only have to watch any aircraft landing in adverse wind conditions. They have no idea, most of them. Not the crews fault, as they are unable to get any handling practice. Some outfits, manual flying is not allowed. Every time I strap my backside to an A/C these days I pray to (God) the autopilot don't quit.
As far as the other types of "suitablity" are concerned, these traits really cant be picked up at interview stage. Take a. recent case when a Captain punched a F/O, for telling him to slow down on the taxi. He didnt slow the taxi so brakes were applied, then the Captain hit him. Nice behaviour? I could go on, but most can take the point..When I was flying multi crew up to 3 , I would always invite critquec. Some would look at me as if I had come from Mars. Not encouraged these days I bet.That let the others know I made mistakes like everyone else.. There is a lot of psychology involved in getting the better out of people you are working with.
Flight deck? It was always cockpit in my day. One word fitted all. Take a Piper Cub for example, would you call the pilot seating area, a flghtdeck? Some of you youngsters need to get over yourselves. Only aeroplanes at the end of the day.
What is the most important skill a pilot needs, to operate with any degree of safety? My answer is to be ABLE to FLY the aircraft.
Everyone is so fixated with the automatics, not to much thought has gone into, how will this person will cope, if the automatics fail? In most cases not very well.
This was beginning to rare its ugly head 20years ago before I retired. Example, Asian airline, linecheck, on approach checkpilot pulled the A/P CB. The pilot flying couldn't cope. Turned into an incident. Ok the time to do this stunt is in the simulator, not in the a/c loaded with passengers.
This incompetence has crept into the industry to the extend the FAA are very concerned. 20 years late but better late than never. It has caused at least one loss of an A/C. You only have to watch any aircraft landing in adverse wind conditions. They have no idea, most of them. Not the crews fault, as they are unable to get any handling practice. Some outfits, manual flying is not allowed. Every time I strap my backside to an A/C these days I pray to (God) the autopilot don't quit.
As far as the other types of "suitablity" are concerned, these traits really cant be picked up at interview stage. Take a. recent case when a Captain punched a F/O, for telling him to slow down on the taxi. He didnt slow the taxi so brakes were applied, then the Captain hit him. Nice behaviour? I could go on, but most can take the point..When I was flying multi crew up to 3 , I would always invite critquec. Some would look at me as if I had come from Mars. Not encouraged these days I bet.That let the others know I made mistakes like everyone else.. There is a lot of psychology involved in getting the better out of people you are working with.
Flight deck? It was always cockpit in my day. One word fitted all. Take a Piper Cub for example, would you call the pilot seating area, a flghtdeck? Some of you youngsters need to get over yourselves. Only aeroplanes at the end of the day.
Dutch Roller
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 81
Likes: 2
From: World
I am aware, common sense is thin on ground these days. It appears HR in some outfits display the same illness.
There is an ex recruiter at "The Emirates". who is selling packages to prepare one for airline interview. On Facebook.
As an introduction, he states "I have seen many talented pilots fail the selection process". Really?
If the candidate is talented, should not there be extra effort to get that candidate onboard?
The reason being, talent can't be taught in a classroom. It can't be bought.One is born with talent, ability, flair or aptitude. They either have it or they don't. A God given gift.
Would it not be sensible to take the talented candidate and teach them, what can be taught.
That too me, would be common sense.
I did mention this to him on the comments. My query was removed and no response.
Maybe someone from human remains, from any outfit could explain this to me. At the moment I am unable too get my head around the thought process, that allows them to come up with this nonsense.
There is an ex recruiter at "The Emirates". who is selling packages to prepare one for airline interview. On Facebook.
As an introduction, he states "I have seen many talented pilots fail the selection process". Really?
If the candidate is talented, should not there be extra effort to get that candidate onboard?
The reason being, talent can't be taught in a classroom. It can't be bought.One is born with talent, ability, flair or aptitude. They either have it or they don't. A God given gift.
Would it not be sensible to take the talented candidate and teach them, what can be taught.
That too me, would be common sense.
I did mention this to him on the comments. My query was removed and no response.
Maybe someone from human remains, from any outfit could explain this to me. At the moment I am unable too get my head around the thought process, that allows them to come up with this nonsense.
Joined: Dec 2025
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 215
Likes: 213
From: England
I’m not sure this is fair tbh. I fully agree that as pilots we must maintain our flying skills. At my airline, and I assume all others, have to demonstrate manual flying skills in the sim twice a year, including max crosswind landings, and manual flying with degraded flying laws (airbus). When workload is low, manual flying is encouraged on the line eg. A visual into faro or a quiet Greek island so that if the need arises, it’s no big deal. With the greatest respect, the sky has got a hell of a lot busier in the last 20 years and dropping all the automatics out into a London airport with a 300hr guy sat next to you isn’t always appropriate…
perhaps there’s an argument that because hour building isn’t a thing in Europe anymore and you can be in the RHS with 200-300hrs the capacity of many of those individuals is low across the board and the natural reaction to this will be to ‘rely’ on automation slightly more
however I’m yet to notice any translation of this on the line and I’m consistently impressed by the flying skills of all of the captains fly with when they are required to demonstrate them in the more dynamic situations
The other we had an issue with the ATHR and had to fly the entire day with manual thrust with no issues
Many of the criticisms against a degradation in manual flying skills is more likely to be a criticism of the low hour model and in fact many are chopped at below 500 hours but does that mean the average crew with 1000s of hours between them are less capable than a similarly experienced crew 20/30 years ago? I’d struggle to believe so with all of the non-tech training we go through now and how much more we fly in terms of hours a year
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 39
Likes: 45
From: Cambridge
I do genuinely wonder where this is coming from
perhaps there’s an argument that because hour building isn’t a thing in Europe anymore and you can be in the RHS with 200-300hrs the capacity of many of those individuals is low across the board and the natural reaction to this will be to ‘rely’ on automation slightly more
however I’m yet to notice any translation of this on the line and I’m consistently impressed by the flying skills of all of the captains fly with when they are required to demonstrate them in the more dynamic situations
The other we had an issue with the ATHR and had to fly the entire day with manual thrust with no issues
Many of the criticisms against a degradation in manual flying skills is more likely to be a criticism of the low hour model and in fact many are chopped at below 500 hours but does that mean the average crew with 1000s of hours between them are less capable than a similarly experienced crew 20/30 years ago? I’d struggle to believe so with all of the non-tech training we go through now and how much more we fly in terms of hours a year
perhaps there’s an argument that because hour building isn’t a thing in Europe anymore and you can be in the RHS with 200-300hrs the capacity of many of those individuals is low across the board and the natural reaction to this will be to ‘rely’ on automation slightly more
however I’m yet to notice any translation of this on the line and I’m consistently impressed by the flying skills of all of the captains fly with when they are required to demonstrate them in the more dynamic situations
The other we had an issue with the ATHR and had to fly the entire day with manual thrust with no issues
Many of the criticisms against a degradation in manual flying skills is more likely to be a criticism of the low hour model and in fact many are chopped at below 500 hours but does that mean the average crew with 1000s of hours between them are less capable than a similarly experienced crew 20/30 years ago? I’d struggle to believe so with all of the non-tech training we go through now and how much more we fly in terms of hours a year
Last edited by Forresthump; 5th March 2026 at 18:07.
Joined: Dec 2025
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 215
Likes: 213
From: England
I’d agree with your points. I’d add that for me, automation helps me manage my energy levels which is a crucial skill when doing deep late night duties/ very long days/ back to back brutally early starts on min rest. I don’t thing this was the norm 20 years ago. This is not to say we can’t fly the thing when we need/want to.
how many 13 hour days ending well last midnight back to back were being done even 2 decades ago?
How many 4/5 day blocks were there?
how many 25-30 minute turnarounds?
the same people that will bemoan the loss of a flight engineer will argue about deskilling of the 2 man flight deck
if all goes to pot I’m sure the vast vast majorities of crews will handle it just fine and are trained to. But drop a ‘flying god’ idea of a pilot of yesteryear into a modern flight deck and ask them to do a block and I imagine they’d quickly struggle
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: UK
I think you might be barking uptime wrong tree here. 25 years ago I was doing 4 sectors or even 6 sectors on a 6 on 3 off roster at Easy. You think you're better than the crews of 25 years ago? Newsflash: You're not, you're just the same. It was a struggle then and it's a struggle now. Stop trying to make out you're better, you're not.
Nobody is 'trained' to deal with fatigue, It just happens due to crap rostering. At least these days crews mostly get a rest day after a deep late. 25 years ago I was back at work 12 hours later. I lasted 4 years at Easy, it was crap. Enjoy your struggle.
You have no idea what was happening 20-25 years ago clearly. Typical.
Nobody is 'trained' to deal with fatigue, It just happens due to crap rostering. At least these days crews mostly get a rest day after a deep late. 25 years ago I was back at work 12 hours later. I lasted 4 years at Easy, it was crap. Enjoy your struggle.
You have no idea what was happening 20-25 years ago clearly. Typical.
Joined: Dec 2025
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 215
Likes: 213
From: England
I think you might be barking uptime wrong tree here. 25 years ago I was doing 4 sectors or even 6 sectors on a 6 on 3 off roster at Easy. You think you're better than the crews of 25 years ago? Newsflash: You're not, you're just the same. It was a struggle then and it's a struggle now. Stop trying to make out you're better, you're not.
Nobody is 'trained' to deal with fatigue, It just happens due to crap rostering. At least these days crews mostly get a rest day after a deep late. 25 years ago I was back at work 12 hours later. I lasted 4 years at Easy, it was crap. Enjoy your struggle.
You have no idea what was happening 20-25 years ago clearly. Typical.
Nobody is 'trained' to deal with fatigue, It just happens due to crap rostering. At least these days crews mostly get a rest day after a deep late. 25 years ago I was back at work 12 hours later. I lasted 4 years at Easy, it was crap. Enjoy your struggle.
You have no idea what was happening 20-25 years ago clearly. Typical.
but on the other hand many openly say they were superior in certain ways to crews of today
and no crews don’t get rest days after deep lates today (at least not in my company), rest days are allocated based on duty length (extended duties). It’s possible (and for me common) to do 2-3 back to back deep lates
ask anyone that has flown 15-20 years and if they are working harder today or 20 years ago and you’ll get one answer
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 39
Likes: 45
From: Cambridge
I think you might be barking uptime wrong tree here. 25 years ago I was doing 4 sectors or even 6 sectors on a 6 on 3 off roster at Easy. You think you're better than the crews of 25 years ago? Newsflash: You're not, you're just the same. It was a struggle then and it's a struggle now. Stop trying to make out you're better, you're not.
Nobody is 'trained' to deal with fatigue, It just happens due to crap rostering. At least these days crews mostly get a rest day after a deep late. 25 years ago I was back at work 12 hours later. I lasted 4 years at Easy, it was crap. Enjoy your struggle.
You have no idea what was happening 20-25 years ago clearly. Typical.
Nobody is 'trained' to deal with fatigue, It just happens due to crap rostering. At least these days crews mostly get a rest day after a deep late. 25 years ago I was back at work 12 hours later. I lasted 4 years at Easy, it was crap. Enjoy your struggle.
You have no idea what was happening 20-25 years ago clearly. Typical.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 887
Likes: 131
From: Location, Location
How could that not have some effect on current and potential employees? Specifically those with families.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 648
Likes: 74
From: uk
There’s a video all over the news today of a suicide drone warhead exploding on the taxiway at the corner of Dubai’s main terminal, narrowly missing an A380. The airport was open and operating at the time, and reopened shortly afterwards.
How could that not have some effect on current and potential employees? Specifically those with families.
How could that not have some effect on current and potential employees? Specifically those with families.
