Emirates DEC
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
Meaning: You are flying where no one else is and there is nothing that makes it safe. Sometimes the best thing is not use that airspace. Any airline not supporting a captain on this is unsuitable for many. Not to mention the reduced legal protections and lack of union representation amongst others. The money may be better but what is the price for this?
worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
What makes you think that you know more than your airline, their security dept and the Ops teams?
No airline will want to lose an airframe, and they will not deliberately place it in harms way. EK and the UAE government will have better direct connections with neighbours than most.
Your job is to fly the aircraft and not second guess things like this.
So if you refuse, expect to be fired, and rightly so.
Maybe aviation is not for you?
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 648
Likes: 74
From: uk
I think that you need to get a grip.
What makes you think that you know more than your airline, their security dept and the Ops teams?
No airline will want to lose an airframe, and they will not deliberately place it in harms way. EK and the UAE government will have better direct connections with neighbours than most.
Your job is to fly the aircraft and not second guess things like this.
So if you refuse, expect to be fired, and rightly so.
Maybe aviation is not for you?
What makes you think that you know more than your airline, their security dept and the Ops teams?
No airline will want to lose an airframe, and they will not deliberately place it in harms way. EK and the UAE government will have better direct connections with neighbours than most.
Your job is to fly the aircraft and not second guess things like this.
So if you refuse, expect to be fired, and rightly so.
Maybe aviation is not for you?
So your airline knows better than all the others. Get a grip and assume that your commanding freedoms over there are lower than elsewhere.
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
I said nothing of the sort.
Don't big up whatever you think your role is. You will not have all of the information a large airline has, and there is no reason for them to share with you more than required, so get over yourself.
btw, not my airline.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 648
Likes: 74
From: uk
what about you address the issues regarding company culture and captain support/protection in this airline vs western legacy carriers?
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
They may have an approach that doesn’t suit everyone, but they get it right.
In the meantime, they pay very very well and offer outstanding opportunities.
All you need to do is do the job they pay you for, and then go home to your family and enjoy life. Really, they do know more than you.
Leave your ego at the door. Or simply don’t work there.
Its a pretty simple choice really.
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 108
Likes: 15
From: Not in UK
I think that you need to get a grip.
What makes you think that you know more than your airline, their security dept and the Ops teams?
No airline will want to lose an airframe, and they will not deliberately place it in harms way. EK and the UAE government will have better direct connections with neighbours than most.
Your job is to fly the aircraft and not second guess things like this.
So if you refuse, expect to be fired, and rightly so.
Maybe aviation is not for you?
What makes you think that you know more than your airline, their security dept and the Ops teams?
No airline will want to lose an airframe, and they will not deliberately place it in harms way. EK and the UAE government will have better direct connections with neighbours than most.
Your job is to fly the aircraft and not second guess things like this.
So if you refuse, expect to be fired, and rightly so.
Maybe aviation is not for you?
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
Routes change, start, terminate for a variety of reasons, such as economics, need, security etc.
Are airlines still flying over Afghanistan? Yes - BA, AF & KLM overhead right now.
Could it be that Fly Dubai are operating to Kabul as it’s a better group fit? FZ due into Kabul in 20 mins.
The answers are all there, so I’m not sure what your point was.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 50
Likes: 6
From: FL390
Meaning: You are flying where no one else is, and there is nothing that makes it safe. Sometimes the best thing is not use that airspace. Any airline not supporting a captain on this is unsuitable for many. Not to mention the reduced legal protections and lack of union representation, amongst others. The money may be better but what is the price for this?
worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Just because BA or Lufthansa are not flying over Iran right now (because they are banned as of 2024, not due to the safety situation) doesn't mean other airlines have to follow their lead when they have a different operating standard.
If flying over this airspace is such an issue for you, just go fly for BA. They are currently hiring, and you won't have to worry about flying over Iran. Seriously, what has this come to? I don't want to fly for an airline because I have to cross this FIR and don't get to fly to the Maldives every week.
PS, the link you sent was to an aircraft that was shot down 30 years ago by the US Navy. If we avoid all airspace where the US military is present around the world, we wouldn't be flying much at all. (in particular, Greenland).
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 25
Likes: 18
From: The Sea
The department in charge of safety and security in EK is larger than the entire ops departments at the majority of airlines. They are well resourced and extremely proactive when needed. Don't conflate the amateur operations of some backwater airline with the way EK manages the operation.
They will have way more information that whatever you read on X that day.
They will have way more information that whatever you read on X that day.
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
Quite a thread drift. Eagle 21 taking quite a drubbing yet on another thread, the Pprune 2o year vet gathers quite a few likes on a different subject. Hardly trolling.
On topic. Middle East., DEC. Different train-set, different owners. Different mind-set. Did 17 years there with a different outfit and best advice given after I was drummed out was that it wouldhave been better to just ;:Get in, stay in, become one of the unknowns-shadow person." Older sibling who played the game (literally !) told me upon joining ;" Watch what you say & who you say it to ". I ignored both advisories and payed a nasty price,
New DEC's. Take heed of both advisories.
Act like Eagle 21 with full regard to Command ideal, authority, responsibility etc, and look behind when it all goes horribly wrong -? there will be no-one there.
.
Truly understand that & you will have a blast.
On topic. Middle East., DEC. Different train-set, different owners. Different mind-set. Did 17 years there with a different outfit and best advice given after I was drummed out was that it wouldhave been better to just ;:Get in, stay in, become one of the unknowns-shadow person." Older sibling who played the game (literally !) told me upon joining ;" Watch what you say & who you say it to ". I ignored both advisories and payed a nasty price,
New DEC's. Take heed of both advisories.
Act like Eagle 21 with full regard to Command ideal, authority, responsibility etc, and look behind when it all goes horribly wrong -? there will be no-one there.
.
Truly understand that & you will have a blast.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 911
Likes: 334
From: uk
I agree Gordo. Working in the ME as a pilot or anything else for that matter requires a certain ability to ignore, rationalize with or compromise over unwanted truths. As for these much vaunted security departments, highly trained or specialized, a combination of the CIA, MI5, SAS, FBI all rolled into one…They may or may not be quite as competent as you think. Working for a new airline equipped with B737s (guess which one), to all our surprise and disquiet a new route to Kabul was announced. But…we protested and listed a series of what ifs. No need to worry was the response. What if the aircraft has a technical fault and the crew needs to stop over in Kabul? All covered, we know what we’re doing, just fly the plane etc, etc. so, the law of sod being what it is that eventuality came to pass. The Plan? There wasn’t one of course, nothing organized, just chaos and confusion and a risky (very) one night layover in not very friendly, downtown Kabul. Don’t believe in the airline propaganda. Just stay safe, watch your 6 and take the dough.
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 108
Likes: 15
From: Not in UK
Is it still part of the network? There’s your answer.
Routes change, start, terminate for a variety of reasons, such as economics, need, security etc.
Are airlines still flying over Afghanistan? Yes - BA, AF & KLM overhead right now.
Could it be that Fly Dubai are operating to Kabul as it’s a better group fit? FZ due into Kabul in 20 mins.
The answers are all there, so I’m not sure what your point was.
Routes change, start, terminate for a variety of reasons, such as economics, need, security etc.
Are airlines still flying over Afghanistan? Yes - BA, AF & KLM overhead right now.
Could it be that Fly Dubai are operating to Kabul as it’s a better group fit? FZ due into Kabul in 20 mins.
The answers are all there, so I’m not sure what your point was.
My point is I'm not sure overflight of Kabul airspace, or other "dodgy" airspace for that matter, is the same as actually operating a scheduled service into the likes of Kabul. Losing a London-Singapore flight overflying Tehran or Afghanistan full of tourists/business people etc would damage a brand probably beyond repair; hence I think you're right with your assertion that an airline wouldn't do it unless they thought it was relatively safe. Is it really exactly the same if an aircraft was to be lost flying into Kabul Airport? I think the reaction of a lot of Joe Bloggs would be "its Kabul, who in their right mind would fly in there anyway..."
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 50
Likes: 6
From: FL390
Emirates is undoubtedly a safe airline with high security standards but I find your blind faith puzzling.
My point is I'm not sure overflight of Kabul airspace, or other "dodgy" airspace for that matter, is the same as actually operating a scheduled service into the likes of Kabul. Losing a London-Singapore flight overflying Tehran or Afghanistan full of tourists/business people etc would damage a brand probably beyond repair; hence I think you're right with your assertion that an airline wouldn't do it unless they thought it was relatively safe. Is it really exactly the same if an aircraft was to be lost flying into Kabul Airport? I think the reaction of a lot of Joe Bloggs would be "its Kabul, who in their right mind would fly in there anyway..."
My point is I'm not sure overflight of Kabul airspace, or other "dodgy" airspace for that matter, is the same as actually operating a scheduled service into the likes of Kabul. Losing a London-Singapore flight overflying Tehran or Afghanistan full of tourists/business people etc would damage a brand probably beyond repair; hence I think you're right with your assertion that an airline wouldn't do it unless they thought it was relatively safe. Is it really exactly the same if an aircraft was to be lost flying into Kabul Airport? I think the reaction of a lot of Joe Bloggs would be "its Kabul, who in their right mind would fly in there anyway..."
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 780
Likes: 10
From: Doctor's waiting room
I did just over 10 years at EK and I have no regrets about joining when I did but I have no regrets about leaving when I did! During my time at EK, I made some great friends, but I missed out on many holidays and special events, leading me to decide it was time to leave a job where I had no control over my lifestyle. What was very surprising is that my eyesight improved after I left EK and those specs I needed to pass the medical each year at the EK clinic are now a thing of the past! I never realised how tiring the job could actually be.
One risk of joining as a DEC is if you struggle to pass the course, they may offer you an F/O position, and if you have moved the family over and the kids are settled in school, it can lead to career suicide if you have been in the LHS for many years. On that note, my biggest piece of advice for any DEC is do not move any of the family over until after your line check is done!!!
One risk of joining as a DEC is if you struggle to pass the course, they may offer you an F/O position, and if you have moved the family over and the kids are settled in school, it can lead to career suicide if you have been in the LHS for many years. On that note, my biggest piece of advice for any DEC is do not move any of the family over until after your line check is done!!!
Last edited by Emma Royds; 25th January 2026 at 13:05.