Career Advice - LH or SH?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2024
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From: UK
Career Advice - LH or SH?
Hi everyone, just after some career advice from a mix of people with different experience as I don't know many ex or current long haul people. I know people will tell me it all depends what I want out of life and a career but at this stage I'm not sure exactly what at I want and I want to think closely about the options I am considering.
I am a current 737 FO with about 1200hrs on type, flying for J2 at a regional base. I feel well treated by the company and the lifestyle is working for me as a 20 something year old with no children yet. I will soon have the opportunity to leave if I want to, or I could stay and in 4-6 years time be looking at a command here. If I did that I'd like to look into training and various other roles in the future to keep the job interesting although I know that will add lifestyle complications too.
If I leave, the only realistic options in the UK are BA or VA. I wouldn't move to another SH operator as I'd rather stay where I am. Moving to either LH operator would probably mean living closer to Heathrow as I currently enjoy a 15 minute commute into work and a long commute could be a lifestyle issue, although I'm keen to hear the thoughts of those who work out of LHR. Another option is the ME but on the whole it seems that is not a long term career option for most. I do like the idea of seeing the world and flying the big machines but I wonder what living out a suitcase would actually be like in the long run, and how it would affect family life.
For me this boils down to, would I be missing out if I don't try to make a LH move? If so, I understand the earlier I move the better it will be eventually. Or is it a case of the grass is not always greener and a SH career, getting an early command and doing different roles after that also a good career option? I'd be grateful for views from people with either SH or LH experience and what they have gotten out of their careers.
I am a current 737 FO with about 1200hrs on type, flying for J2 at a regional base. I feel well treated by the company and the lifestyle is working for me as a 20 something year old with no children yet. I will soon have the opportunity to leave if I want to, or I could stay and in 4-6 years time be looking at a command here. If I did that I'd like to look into training and various other roles in the future to keep the job interesting although I know that will add lifestyle complications too.
If I leave, the only realistic options in the UK are BA or VA. I wouldn't move to another SH operator as I'd rather stay where I am. Moving to either LH operator would probably mean living closer to Heathrow as I currently enjoy a 15 minute commute into work and a long commute could be a lifestyle issue, although I'm keen to hear the thoughts of those who work out of LHR. Another option is the ME but on the whole it seems that is not a long term career option for most. I do like the idea of seeing the world and flying the big machines but I wonder what living out a suitcase would actually be like in the long run, and how it would affect family life.
For me this boils down to, would I be missing out if I don't try to make a LH move? If so, I understand the earlier I move the better it will be eventually. Or is it a case of the grass is not always greener and a SH career, getting an early command and doing different roles after that also a good career option? I'd be grateful for views from people with either SH or LH experience and what they have gotten out of their careers.
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 41
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From: earth
I'll caveat by saying I don't fly LH so can't comment on the lifestyle etc, but if you're looking at joining BA the sooner the better in terms of seniority.
You could give long haul a go at BA, review after 5 years, if you don't like it just bid for short haul. If by that point you've relocated to near LHR you could also bid for day trips.
You could give long haul a go at BA, review after 5 years, if you don't like it just bid for short haul. If by that point you've relocated to near LHR you could also bid for day trips.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 154
From: Having a margarita on the beach
Hi everyone, just after some career advice from a mix of people with different experience as I don't know many ex or current long haul people. I know people will tell me it all depends what I want out of life and a career but at this stage I'm not sure exactly what at I want and I want to think closely about the options I am considering.
I am a current 737 FO with about 1200hrs on type, flying for J2 at a regional base. I feel well treated by the company and the lifestyle is working for me as a 20 something year old with no children yet. I will soon have the opportunity to leave if I want to, or I could stay and in 4-6 years time be looking at a command here. If I did that I'd like to look into training and various other roles in the future to keep the job interesting although I know that will add lifestyle complications too.
If I leave, the only realistic options in the UK are BA or VA. I wouldn't move to another SH operator as I'd rather stay where I am. Moving to either LH operator would probably mean living closer to Heathrow as I currently enjoy a 15 minute commute into work and a long commute could be a lifestyle issue, although I'm keen to hear the thoughts of those who work out of LHR. Another option is the ME but on the whole it seems that is not a long term career option for most. I do like the idea of seeing the world and flying the big machines but I wonder what living out a suitcase would actually be like in the long run, and how it would affect family life.
For me this boils down to, would I be missing out if I don't try to make a LH move? If so, I understand the earlier I move the better it will be eventually. Or is it a case of the grass is not always greener and a SH career, getting an early command and doing different roles after that also a good career option? I'd be grateful for views from people with either SH or LH experience and what they have gotten out of their careers.
I am a current 737 FO with about 1200hrs on type, flying for J2 at a regional base. I feel well treated by the company and the lifestyle is working for me as a 20 something year old with no children yet. I will soon have the opportunity to leave if I want to, or I could stay and in 4-6 years time be looking at a command here. If I did that I'd like to look into training and various other roles in the future to keep the job interesting although I know that will add lifestyle complications too.
If I leave, the only realistic options in the UK are BA or VA. I wouldn't move to another SH operator as I'd rather stay where I am. Moving to either LH operator would probably mean living closer to Heathrow as I currently enjoy a 15 minute commute into work and a long commute could be a lifestyle issue, although I'm keen to hear the thoughts of those who work out of LHR. Another option is the ME but on the whole it seems that is not a long term career option for most. I do like the idea of seeing the world and flying the big machines but I wonder what living out a suitcase would actually be like in the long run, and how it would affect family life.
For me this boils down to, would I be missing out if I don't try to make a LH move? If so, I understand the earlier I move the better it will be eventually. Or is it a case of the grass is not always greener and a SH career, getting an early command and doing different roles after that also a good career option? I'd be grateful for views from people with either SH or LH experience and what they have gotten out of their careers.
You are young hence invest in your future. Move to a legacy like BA and climb the ladder, time is on on your side. Before you know it you’ll be on the a senior FO and hopefully one day a senior Capt. with all that follows. Sure it might take longer to get a LHS there than many LCC (honestly I don’t know how it works at BA tbh so I could be wrong on this) but in the long run you’ll have much more stability and diversity of operation than flying up and down Europe 5 days in a row.
My 2c.
Joined: Sep 2022
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Perpetually circling OCK for some reason
I am of course biased, but I would say join BA and join ASAP.
BA at your age offers you the ability to do almost anything you want - long haul, ultra long haul OR the, IMHO, far more enjoyable multi sector hopping around Europe stuff. Even within the short haul you can do trips or day trips, take an early command or be a safe pair of hands senior FO who does purely the nightstops that they enjoy and commutes from somewhere warm. To me it is a no brainer as pretty much no matter what you want, BA can offer it. The only caveat of course is being within striking distance of LHR…
BA at your age offers you the ability to do almost anything you want - long haul, ultra long haul OR the, IMHO, far more enjoyable multi sector hopping around Europe stuff. Even within the short haul you can do trips or day trips, take an early command or be a safe pair of hands senior FO who does purely the nightstops that they enjoy and commutes from somewhere warm. To me it is a no brainer as pretty much no matter what you want, BA can offer it. The only caveat of course is being within striking distance of LHR…
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: UK
Join BA, get a taste of LH and if you don't like it, it's an easy move to the 320.
If you don't like BA's fairly unique version of SH and want the luxury of a regional base with a 15 minute commute, take the rating back to Jet2. You'd very possibly have 320 command time and you've lost nothing vs staying at Jet2 for the command. Training etc all still available to you.
If you stay at Jet2 and wish you'd given LH a go in 10 years time, it becomes a completely different decision to give up command and put yourself through being junior at BA at that stage of life, plus you've lost 10 years of seniority if you decide to stay.
There's a multitude of reasons to try LH, but if you think you might still be wondering about it 20 years from now, then you may as well crack on and give it a go. This industry can throw all sorts up but at the moment I can't see any barriers to you heading back the other way if you want to.
If you don't like BA's fairly unique version of SH and want the luxury of a regional base with a 15 minute commute, take the rating back to Jet2. You'd very possibly have 320 command time and you've lost nothing vs staying at Jet2 for the command. Training etc all still available to you.
If you stay at Jet2 and wish you'd given LH a go in 10 years time, it becomes a completely different decision to give up command and put yourself through being junior at BA at that stage of life, plus you've lost 10 years of seniority if you decide to stay.
There's a multitude of reasons to try LH, but if you think you might still be wondering about it 20 years from now, then you may as well crack on and give it a go. This industry can throw all sorts up but at the moment I can't see any barriers to you heading back the other way if you want to.
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
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From: Oxford
Longhaul "especially in the sandpit" can be extremely fatiguing. Good longhaul is nice, but longhaul with min rest everywhere and 900hrs or more per year is terrible
If you don't want to stay in J2, i would definitely say BA is your best option by far. As everyone else has said, the sooner the better
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,559
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From: London
I think for anyone in the early/mid twenties, take a seriously look and think about BA. The world really is your oyster. I’ve made the move in my mid thirties (just) and I suspect as time goes on my main feeling will be, if only I’d moved sooner. The large amount of predicted retirements in the next 5-7 years, all the sounds are recruitment will be going fairly fast for the foreseeable.
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 444
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From: England
Living close to your base is a huge bonus compared to many who have a long slog to work. I worked for an ex holiday company and did mixed fleet flying from UK to the usual 'charter' holiday destinations. The mix was super, slightly varied LH contracts varied the destinations and I thoroughly enjoyed all the regular Caribbean work we did. SH on a 321 could be up to 6 hrs + with stopovers, so African sun in winter. Mixed fleet, 320/330, is probably the best option if you foresee that on the J2 horizon, the days of BA 75/76 are long gone so there is not much choice any more. I think that a life time of SH at your age would be quite tedious, so maybe I would plump for the BA LH, but keep an ear open for any developments at J2. As others have said, if you get LH at BA, I suspect it is easy to revert to SH. Enjoy your time, I had a ball despite the great deal of moaning that you hear!
Last edited by Capt Scribble; 26th August 2024 at 02:53.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 139
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From: LHR and beyond
You don't join LH for the flying, it's all about the lifestyle..
Long Haul flying allows you to see the world (rather than just an airport) but once you've flown 'the big jets' it really is just another aircraft and it also comes with many negatives such as ie Jetlag, fatigue, away from family etc etc... Having said that, I've been LH for 22 years and couldn't see myself going back to SH unless I needed to.
It's a personal choice and certainly no better/worse or right/wrong with LH vs SH, but do your research and make informed decisions rather than just wanting to fly a bigger aircraft etc.
Long Haul flying allows you to see the world (rather than just an airport) but once you've flown 'the big jets' it really is just another aircraft and it also comes with many negatives such as ie Jetlag, fatigue, away from family etc etc... Having said that, I've been LH for 22 years and couldn't see myself going back to SH unless I needed to.
It's a personal choice and certainly no better/worse or right/wrong with LH vs SH, but do your research and make informed decisions rather than just wanting to fly a bigger aircraft etc.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 137
From: USA
I've done both & would say that massively depends
Longhaul "especially in the sandpit" can be extremely fatiguing. Good longhaul is nice, but longhaul with min rest everywhere and 900hrs or more per year is terrible
If you don't want to stay in J2, i would definitely say BA is your best option by far. As everyone else has said, the sooner the better
Longhaul "especially in the sandpit" can be extremely fatiguing. Good longhaul is nice, but longhaul with min rest everywhere and 900hrs or more per year is terrible
If you don't want to stay in J2, i would definitely say BA is your best option by far. As everyone else has said, the sooner the better
LH isn’t for everyone (nor is SH), but the quality of life improvement cannot be overstated.
Ideally the OP would be somewhere where he/she can try both kinds of flying. J2 is SH only, and VIrgin is LH only. BA seems the easy choice.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2024
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From: UK
Thanks everyone for your replies so far, I really appreciate all the insight. Someone mentioned DHL which is a good idea as an alternative to working from LHR. I'll have a good think about that.
Seems like the majority agree BA is the best career choice. I have a question regarding the lifestyle, particularly for those with partners who work full time or those with young families. My girlfriend makes the point that often our days off do not align but at least I am home each night from work so we still see each other. If I was working LH, she may be working on my few days off between trips, and then I'd be off again so we would rarely see each other. How does this tend to play out in reality?
I'd like to stress that I'm not looking for a move because I don't like SH. I very much enjoy it, I fly about 600hrs a year, 2 sector days, and earn a good salary for a relatively junior FO, living close to my regional base. But I don't get to see any of the world in my current job and our contracts and benefits probably aren't as good as a senior BA pilot. I'm also very keen to get a command and the thought of waiting till I'm well into my 40s for a BA LH command is daunting (not that I would knock anyone who is in this position as it's undoubtedly a great career path - and I appreciate that a SH command would be available much earlier). Equally 35 years of flying to the canaries and back seems daunting, but I would hope I'd have other roles by that stage. This is why I find the decision hard to make, if I was at RYR or Wizz perhaps it would be a lot easier to make the jump. Very much a first world problem which I am fortunate to have.
Still very interested in hearing some more views so thanks again to everyone contributing.
Seems like the majority agree BA is the best career choice. I have a question regarding the lifestyle, particularly for those with partners who work full time or those with young families. My girlfriend makes the point that often our days off do not align but at least I am home each night from work so we still see each other. If I was working LH, she may be working on my few days off between trips, and then I'd be off again so we would rarely see each other. How does this tend to play out in reality?
I'd like to stress that I'm not looking for a move because I don't like SH. I very much enjoy it, I fly about 600hrs a year, 2 sector days, and earn a good salary for a relatively junior FO, living close to my regional base. But I don't get to see any of the world in my current job and our contracts and benefits probably aren't as good as a senior BA pilot. I'm also very keen to get a command and the thought of waiting till I'm well into my 40s for a BA LH command is daunting (not that I would knock anyone who is in this position as it's undoubtedly a great career path - and I appreciate that a SH command would be available much earlier). Equally 35 years of flying to the canaries and back seems daunting, but I would hope I'd have other roles by that stage. This is why I find the decision hard to make, if I was at RYR or Wizz perhaps it would be a lot easier to make the jump. Very much a first world problem which I am fortunate to have.
Still very interested in hearing some more views so thanks again to everyone contributing.
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 184
Likes: 56
From: Dubai, once... now London
In today’s world I would say LH all the way.
Think about the craziness of not having separate FTLs for short-medium and Long Haul ops.
On LH (the real one not a mix like in EK or so) with 3 or 4 trips a month you end up with 80/90 hours and 13/14 days off. Yes jet lag can be a factor but personally I believe it is way less tiring than flying 5 or 6 days in a row for a LCC when you start day 1 with a 3 am wake up call and en on day 6 with a 2 am checkout. That is jet lag too.
On LH as long as you take enough time to rest and only go out on layover when you have recovered than it becomes really smooth. A lot of people get fatigued because the end up in LAX, sleep 3 hours and go out. Of course you will end up fatigued and blame jet lag. If you do things properly it’s great. Plus working in Europe mainland you don’t land from a 10 hours LH flight at 7 am and go out for a Gulf turn around again at 1 am…
Think about the craziness of not having separate FTLs for short-medium and Long Haul ops.
On LH (the real one not a mix like in EK or so) with 3 or 4 trips a month you end up with 80/90 hours and 13/14 days off. Yes jet lag can be a factor but personally I believe it is way less tiring than flying 5 or 6 days in a row for a LCC when you start day 1 with a 3 am wake up call and en on day 6 with a 2 am checkout. That is jet lag too.
On LH as long as you take enough time to rest and only go out on layover when you have recovered than it becomes really smooth. A lot of people get fatigued because the end up in LAX, sleep 3 hours and go out. Of course you will end up fatigued and blame jet lag. If you do things properly it’s great. Plus working in Europe mainland you don’t land from a 10 hours LH flight at 7 am and go out for a Gulf turn around again at 1 am…
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 156
Likes: 42
From: UK
In today’s world I would say LH all the way.
Think about the craziness of not having separate FTLs for short-medium and Long Haul ops.
On LH (the real one not a mix like in EK or so) with 3 or 4 trips a month you end up with 80/90 hours and 13/14 days off. Yes jet lag can be a factor but personally I believe it is way less tiring than flying 5 or 6 days in a row for a LCC when you start day 1 with a 3 am wake up call and en on day 6 with a 2 am checkout. That is jet lag too.
On LH as long as you take enough time to rest and only go out on layover when you have recovered than it becomes really smooth. A lot of people get fatigued because the end up in LAX, sleep 3 hours and go out. Of course you will end up fatigued and blame jet lag. If you do things properly it’s great. Plus working in Europe mainland you don’t land from a 10 hours LH flight at 7 am and go out for a Gulf turn around again at 1 am…
Think about the craziness of not having separate FTLs for short-medium and Long Haul ops.
On LH (the real one not a mix like in EK or so) with 3 or 4 trips a month you end up with 80/90 hours and 13/14 days off. Yes jet lag can be a factor but personally I believe it is way less tiring than flying 5 or 6 days in a row for a LCC when you start day 1 with a 3 am wake up call and en on day 6 with a 2 am checkout. That is jet lag too.
On LH as long as you take enough time to rest and only go out on layover when you have recovered than it becomes really smooth. A lot of people get fatigued because the end up in LAX, sleep 3 hours and go out. Of course you will end up fatigued and blame jet lag. If you do things properly it’s great. Plus working in Europe mainland you don’t land from a 10 hours LH flight at 7 am and go out for a Gulf turn around again at 1 am…
It's a very personal decision and you'll find advocates for both. The only way you'll really know is to try it. As others have pointed out... it's much easier to try LH early in your career than to move LHS SH to RHS LH later.
The other thing to bear in mind is that sooner or later you'll hit the point where flying an ILS/RNAV becomes pretty bloody boring. At that point it's fairly nice that the aircraft has taken you somewhere nice to explore and have a cold beer. Or that you've brought your partner/friend along sipping champagne in a comfy seat.
Personally I'd never go back to SH
Joined: Sep 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 886
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From: by the seaside
Done both in two flag carriers - what suffers is not only your health but family relationships; after nesrly getting divorced for a second time I spent £300 a month (1980s) on telephone calls, got an au pair and took my wife along on trips to keep our marriage going. My health suffered and I eventually lost my license. Whilst conditions change fatigue is a huge problem and in my last year I had two months unpaid leave on top of another 47 days which we used for a month sailing holiday and normal home life.
SH was basically 5 on 3 off with early first day, 3 nights away and late last augmented by 4/2 and 6/3. Long haul was 8 days off a month and up to 17 day trips. Some of my mates did mixed which seemed better.
Short haul was fun flying but that was in the days of turning everything off and doing a split arse visual..long haul was system management with a flow of interesting pax in the cockpit to break the boredom of choosing from the first class menu.
Both short and long haul can be fun but as you get older you loose your resilience- many the nights I’ve spent on the loo or leaning over it.
SH was basically 5 on 3 off with early first day, 3 nights away and late last augmented by 4/2 and 6/3. Long haul was 8 days off a month and up to 17 day trips. Some of my mates did mixed which seemed better.
Short haul was fun flying but that was in the days of turning everything off and doing a split arse visual..long haul was system management with a flow of interesting pax in the cockpit to break the boredom of choosing from the first class menu.
Both short and long haul can be fun but as you get older you loose your resilience- many the nights I’ve spent on the loo or leaning over it.
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 193
Likes: 114
From: South Park
You’re young so try it. With a family and children, command SH and go part time being home everyday. You will have a great work/life balance and your family will thank you for it.
Many LH people I know have been divorced, some more than once. That’s why I say try it now.
Many LH people I know have been divorced, some more than once. That’s why I say try it now.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 15
From: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
I’ve flown regional turboprops , 737s in the sandpit & long haul BA, and have been knackered in all 3 jobs. That said, compared to the others lifestyle at BA is very relaxed and undemanding. As well as (relative) job security, it offers opportunities to travel the globe and see places / do things that I’d never get to on holiday, and being able to fly loved-ones half way round the world in comfy seats is a very nice perk.
However… I am part time (like many colleagues) and lucky to be on a fleet that offers half-decent rosters for junior pilots. There are big variations within BA, and junior on the triple is not a nice place to be. Commuting can also be a challenge, and it’s not much fun hanging around at LHR waiting for a flight home when you’ve been up all night. You don’t mention where your regional J2 base is, but if it’s mostly 2 sector days I can make an educated guess
. If I’m right, it’s also one of the busiest commuting routes in BA…
Personally I love LH, can manage the commute and wouldn’t want to go back to SH ever again, even if it meant being close to home. But as others have said, it’s not for everyone.
Feel free to PM me if you want any more gen.
However… I am part time (like many colleagues) and lucky to be on a fleet that offers half-decent rosters for junior pilots. There are big variations within BA, and junior on the triple is not a nice place to be. Commuting can also be a challenge, and it’s not much fun hanging around at LHR waiting for a flight home when you’ve been up all night. You don’t mention where your regional J2 base is, but if it’s mostly 2 sector days I can make an educated guess
. If I’m right, it’s also one of the busiest commuting routes in BA…Personally I love LH, can manage the commute and wouldn’t want to go back to SH ever again, even if it meant being close to home. But as others have said, it’s not for everyone.
Feel free to PM me if you want any more gen.