Career Advice - LH or SH?
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
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From: World
My girlfriend makes the point that often our days off do not align but at least I am home each night from work so we still see each other. If I was working LH, she may be working on my few days off between trips, and then I'd be off again so we would rarely see each other. How does this tend to play out in reality?
If you go long haul expect to work a trip that has you away over most of if not more than the entire weekend. The plus side to that is that if your partner’s work is somewhat flexible then it’s easy to take them on trips with you and much nicer being away somewhere for a couple days rather than on BA SH where you’ll still give up your weekends but for 12 hrs in a hotel in Newcastle instead of 48 hrs in Antigua. The downside is that it’s such a personal thing with how well your body can deal with jet lag and staying up all night and you’ll only know once you try it. BA are only hiring into the 777 for 2025, so expect a lot of trips to be 2-crew with no onboard rest whilst you’re junior. I’m a write off for the following 24-48 hrs after a trip, you just about recover and then it’s time to pop the nylon suit back on and do it all again.
You’re young so it shouldn’t cause too many issues. Once you start having a young family etc then best hope you have an extremely supportive partner. There’s a reason why this profession is a divorce magnet and these days it ain’t because Chantelle winked at you over your lager. Fatigue and constant tiredness changes your personality. It is testing to the most stable relationships.
Last edited by Seosan; 26th August 2024 at 19:40.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
It’s horses for courses but there’s a reason it’s a significantly longer time to command on long haul fleets than short haul. Those that have the choice, and have probably done both, tend to choose long haul.
Fatigue and jet lag might change your personality, but so does job dissatisfaction. The fact that you’re unsure enough to be asking the question probably means you should choose the airline that gives you the most options to suit your lifestyle - which will change as you go through your career.
Personal advice would be BA long haul with a part time bid in on day one - you’re only sacrificing the most highly taxed part of your salary and it’ll probably save your health as much as your friendships and relationships. Even at 75% you’re probably going to be earning more than your non-flying peers and not working nearly as much. The job isn’t half as mentally draining or fatiguing when you know you have that firebreak coming up every few weeks.
You’ll do the same amount of hours as you do now, probably still earn more money and have an abundance of free time spread out evenly across the year when you can use those staff travel perks.
Good luck.
Fatigue and jet lag might change your personality, but so does job dissatisfaction. The fact that you’re unsure enough to be asking the question probably means you should choose the airline that gives you the most options to suit your lifestyle - which will change as you go through your career.
Personal advice would be BA long haul with a part time bid in on day one - you’re only sacrificing the most highly taxed part of your salary and it’ll probably save your health as much as your friendships and relationships. Even at 75% you’re probably going to be earning more than your non-flying peers and not working nearly as much. The job isn’t half as mentally draining or fatiguing when you know you have that firebreak coming up every few weeks.
You’ll do the same amount of hours as you do now, probably still earn more money and have an abundance of free time spread out evenly across the year when you can use those staff travel perks.
Good luck.
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 90
Likes: 66
From: Looking north out to sea
I’ve done SH only, LH only and a mix.
When asked the same question on many occasions when flying, I said lean forward and look out. The picture is the same whether in a 321 or 380..
However, if it is LH it is either dark or the sun is coming up in your eyes. Get used to living at 30W in your head, just as your children and wife (if you have been at home enough to find one) get used to you not being there. Years later my Wife told me the LH only period was the most difficult for her.
SH from a regional base with a short commute; perfect. You get a chance to meet and have a family. You get to know those you work with and are not just a number. You get to know other people in the community. My Wife’s art teacher thought I was unemployed as she saw me regularly and at my Son’s primary school where I often picked up/dropped off, one mother exclaimed when I arrived in uniform “now I understand why Julie thought it strange you were a pirate!” The bottom line is being at home and being part of the community whilst still enjoying your flying. You do not help yourself with a long commute or being in a huge pool of pilots.
Living in London is expensive. My Son’s 2 bed flat would buy a 4 bed house with a meaningful garden elswhere. Sure you get to see many interesting places, but only where you are sent and New York for the 50th time is just New York…. Use that “spare” money and go where you want to.
There will no doubt be many here outraged by my position, but I’ve had a great career in aviation and most importantly a happy family life and am still married to the same woman 37 years on.
No matter what is said here, it will be your choice. Sure, you can go back to SH from LH, but you can’t go back to a broken home life.
Me
When asked the same question on many occasions when flying, I said lean forward and look out. The picture is the same whether in a 321 or 380..
However, if it is LH it is either dark or the sun is coming up in your eyes. Get used to living at 30W in your head, just as your children and wife (if you have been at home enough to find one) get used to you not being there. Years later my Wife told me the LH only period was the most difficult for her.
SH from a regional base with a short commute; perfect. You get a chance to meet and have a family. You get to know those you work with and are not just a number. You get to know other people in the community. My Wife’s art teacher thought I was unemployed as she saw me regularly and at my Son’s primary school where I often picked up/dropped off, one mother exclaimed when I arrived in uniform “now I understand why Julie thought it strange you were a pirate!” The bottom line is being at home and being part of the community whilst still enjoying your flying. You do not help yourself with a long commute or being in a huge pool of pilots.
Living in London is expensive. My Son’s 2 bed flat would buy a 4 bed house with a meaningful garden elswhere. Sure you get to see many interesting places, but only where you are sent and New York for the 50th time is just New York…. Use that “spare” money and go where you want to.
There will no doubt be many here outraged by my position, but I’ve had a great career in aviation and most importantly a happy family life and am still married to the same woman 37 years on.
No matter what is said here, it will be your choice. Sure, you can go back to SH from LH, but you can’t go back to a broken home life.
Me
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: UK
Thanks everyone for the latest replies. It's great for me to hear opinions from both sides of the fence. Commuting is something I'll never know whether it works for me or not until I try it, as I've never had to so far. But I can't say the idea of it appeals! That leads me onto the house prices anywhere near LHR compared to the North of England... but that's just how it is.
Sounds like from a lifestyle point of view, long haul and part time could be the way forward, IF it would work with family life. Therefore I think this is a decision I could only make with full backing of my partner, who at the moment is dubious; hence why I am doing the research.
Could anyone give me an idea of how many days off is common between trips? Or do you have a minimum number of days off at BA per month? I'd also be keen to find out what the sick pay/income protection benefit is if this is acceptable to ask for...
I will probably be in touch at some point with some more questions to those who have kindly offered to give me some more advice. Thanks again all.
Sounds like from a lifestyle point of view, long haul and part time could be the way forward, IF it would work with family life. Therefore I think this is a decision I could only make with full backing of my partner, who at the moment is dubious; hence why I am doing the research.
Could anyone give me an idea of how many days off is common between trips? Or do you have a minimum number of days off at BA per month? I'd also be keen to find out what the sick pay/income protection benefit is if this is acceptable to ask for...
I will probably be in touch at some point with some more questions to those who have kindly offered to give me some more advice. Thanks again all.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
If only it were that easy….in certain companies, a pilot on a 75% LH contract may take home the same money as a full timer SH pilot. Which would you choose now? 3 trips a month working 13-15 days or short haul blocks of work where you work 18-20 days? A chance to visit some of the exotic places in the world or flog yourself to death flying around Europe 4 times a day? At the end of the day, it’s horses for courses.
short flights long nights
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 4,017
Likes: 327
If only it were that easy….in certain companies, a pilot on a 75% LH contract may take home the same money as a full timer SH pilot. Which would you choose now? 3 trips a month working 13-15 days or short haul blocks of work where you work 18-20 days? A chance to visit some of the exotic places in the world or flog yourself to death flying around Europe 4 times a day? At the end of the day, it’s horses for courses.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 250
Likes: 14
From: UK
It’s horses for courses but there’s a reason it’s a significantly longer time to command on long haul fleets than short haul. Those that have the choice, and have probably done both, tend to choose long haul.
Fatigue and jet lag might change your personality, but so does job dissatisfaction. The fact that you’re unsure enough to be asking the question probably means you should choose the airline that gives you the most options to suit your lifestyle - which will change as you go through your career.
Personal advice would be BA long haul with a part time bid in on day one - you’re only sacrificing the most highly taxed part of your salary and it’ll probably save your health as much as your friendships and relationships. Even at 75% you’re probably going to be earning more than your non-flying peers and not working nearly as much. The job isn’t half as mentally draining or fatiguing when you know you have that firebreak coming up every few weeks.
You’ll do the same amount of hours as you do now, probably still earn more money and have an abundance of free time spread out evenly across the year when you can use those staff travel perks.
Good luck.
Fatigue and jet lag might change your personality, but so does job dissatisfaction. The fact that you’re unsure enough to be asking the question probably means you should choose the airline that gives you the most options to suit your lifestyle - which will change as you go through your career.
Personal advice would be BA long haul with a part time bid in on day one - you’re only sacrificing the most highly taxed part of your salary and it’ll probably save your health as much as your friendships and relationships. Even at 75% you’re probably going to be earning more than your non-flying peers and not working nearly as much. The job isn’t half as mentally draining or fatiguing when you know you have that firebreak coming up every few weeks.
You’ll do the same amount of hours as you do now, probably still earn more money and have an abundance of free time spread out evenly across the year when you can use those staff travel perks.
Good luck.
Ok I haven’t tried LH yet. I would argue the case and say definitely at BA SH, the night curfew is a god send on your body clock.
In the same breath SH for a whole career? IMO would get boring. Speaking to pilots who were 75/76 had a good gig going.
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 491
From: Europe
I do like the idea of seeing the world and flying the big machines but I wonder what living out a suitcase would actually be like in the long run, and how it would affect family life.
For me this boils down to, would I be missing out if I don't try to make a LH move?
For me this boils down to, would I be missing out if I don't try to make a LH move?
If you really want to see the world, why not apply to Netjets or VistaJet?
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 182
Likes: 29
From: where I lay my hat
I would go so far as to say, long haul significantly shortens your life expectancy and well being. It's boring flying, and in an airline, one doesn't generally get to 'see the world', just airports hub areas and same old same old eateries and/or drinking dens (unless you really crank up the fatigue by trekking into the cities and environs).
But, I do recommend getting it out of your system while you're young. Or a quality biz jet operator is a good idea, interesting off the beaten path layovers. At the end of the day, it's a job which pays the bills, and short haul is less deleterious on the health.
But, I do recommend getting it out of your system while you're young. Or a quality biz jet operator is a good idea, interesting off the beaten path layovers. At the end of the day, it's a job which pays the bills, and short haul is less deleterious on the health.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
The important thing to note here is that, given nobody lives in the crew car park (or is supposed to!), absolutely everybody commutes to some extent or another. The only question is the method and distance of that commute and how manageable it is. The answer to that will be different for everybody.
With reference to the sun rising at 30W comment, I know this wasn’t the point being made but at the same time it’s amazing to me how many people do this job for a living and still do not realise the importance of investing in a decent blackout mask (cost about £20) and lie there attempting controlled rest with a Club mask on or even a First mask both of which block out the square root of F all light.
Back to the SH v LH debate I personally know of someone who has picked up an LAX on overtime next month, heavy out and heavy back, sector swapped the return flight three times and now has a 7 day trip they are taking their partner on. This is whole levels of different world kind of stuff when compared to the SH grind. I’m not going to pretend it’s easy to do or a frequent occurrence but that kind of thing is possible and an option that just doesn’t exist at the locos.
With regard to Long Haul and longevity I think the fundamental issue being missed here is the utterly horrendous lifestyle that accompanies these nights out of bed namely people scoffing meals at 3 in the morning and raiding the club kitchen throughout the night, consuming gallons of alcohol downroute etc etc. We’ve all seen the kind of shape some of the guys (and girls) are in, trying to shift the blame of increased mortality here wholly onto lack of sleep is being wilfully blinkered. There’ll be plenty of people who don’t indulge to the same extent who keep themselves in shape who aren’t suffering - and will not end up suffering - the same ill effects. None of this is to say that nights out of bed are a good thing for you because of course they aren’t. But let’s not ignore the elephant in the room.
With reference to the sun rising at 30W comment, I know this wasn’t the point being made but at the same time it’s amazing to me how many people do this job for a living and still do not realise the importance of investing in a decent blackout mask (cost about £20) and lie there attempting controlled rest with a Club mask on or even a First mask both of which block out the square root of F all light.
Back to the SH v LH debate I personally know of someone who has picked up an LAX on overtime next month, heavy out and heavy back, sector swapped the return flight three times and now has a 7 day trip they are taking their partner on. This is whole levels of different world kind of stuff when compared to the SH grind. I’m not going to pretend it’s easy to do or a frequent occurrence but that kind of thing is possible and an option that just doesn’t exist at the locos.
With regard to Long Haul and longevity I think the fundamental issue being missed here is the utterly horrendous lifestyle that accompanies these nights out of bed namely people scoffing meals at 3 in the morning and raiding the club kitchen throughout the night, consuming gallons of alcohol downroute etc etc. We’ve all seen the kind of shape some of the guys (and girls) are in, trying to shift the blame of increased mortality here wholly onto lack of sleep is being wilfully blinkered. There’ll be plenty of people who don’t indulge to the same extent who keep themselves in shape who aren’t suffering - and will not end up suffering - the same ill effects. None of this is to say that nights out of bed are a good thing for you because of course they aren’t. But let’s not ignore the elephant in the room.
Last edited by RexBanner; 27th August 2024 at 19:10.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
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From: UK
Out of interest have you any actual data/evidence on your comment about long haul significantly reducing life expectancy? Have never seen any evidence of this but happy to be proved wrong. My own personal experience is my health has improved over last few years since going long haul (seen through lower blood pressure, better sleep lost few KG etc)..plus have much better quality of life and far less stress than the short haul days.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: England
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
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From: Europe
.
Back to the SH v LH debate I personally know of someone who has picked up an LAX on overtime next month, heavy out and heavy back, sector swapped the return flight three times and now has a 7 day trip they are taking their partner on. This is whole levels of different world kind of stuff when compared to the SH grind. I’m not going to pretend it’s easy to do or a frequent occurrence but that kind of thing is possible and an option that just doesn’t exist at the locos.
Back to the SH v LH debate I personally know of someone who has picked up an LAX on overtime next month, heavy out and heavy back, sector swapped the return flight three times and now has a 7 day trip they are taking their partner on. This is whole levels of different world kind of stuff when compared to the SH grind. I’m not going to pretend it’s easy to do or a frequent occurrence but that kind of thing is possible and an option that just doesn’t exist at the locos.
I prefer to see my partner every day and every night of the week and then go on a relaxing mini-break on my four days off, to a destination of our own choosing…on staff travel of course.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 27
From: World
Out of interest have you any actual data/evidence on your comment about long haul significantly reducing life expectancy? Have never seen any evidence of this but happy to be proved wrong. My own personal experience is my health has improved over last few years since going long haul (seen through lower blood pressure, better sleep lost few KG etc)..plus have much better quality of life and far less stress than the short haul days.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
But is that really a perk? How often are you going to do that with a young family for example? Or even with a working partner?
I prefer to see my partner every day and every night of the week and then go on a relaxing mini-break on my four days off, to a destination of our own choosing…on staff travel of course.
I prefer to see my partner every day and every night of the week and then go on a relaxing mini-break on my four days off, to a destination of our own choosing…on staff travel of course.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
The majority (not all) of people who have actually done LH and SH will say they’ve had a better all round quality of life on long haul. That’s mirrored in seniority lists in airlines that have the option of both.
Beware of people who are stuck in SH only airlines claiming that you’ll be divorced, broke and cancer ridden by 42 if you even consider long haul. Many of them are just trying to convince themselves.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 156
Likes: 42
From: UK
My wife hated it when when I was SH and would be very reluctant if I said I wanted to go back to that. Yes she works and we have youngish kids (and I do more school runs in a month than the EZY FO at the school).
But I can't emphasise enough that whether that lifestyle works for you is so dependent on a number of factors - where you live, what your partner is like, what your kids are like, how you sleep - out of cycle, in the bunk, in the seat, in a hotel room etc. As well as what attracted you to flying in the the first place
There is no one on this or any other forum that can tell you if it's right for you. Can only give heavily biased perspectives
But I can't emphasise enough that whether that lifestyle works for you is so dependent on a number of factors - where you live, what your partner is like, what your kids are like, how you sleep - out of cycle, in the bunk, in the seat, in a hotel room etc. As well as what attracted you to flying in the the first place
There is no one on this or any other forum that can tell you if it's right for you. Can only give heavily biased perspectives
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,633
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From: USA
On the topic of LH being bad for one's health, SH isn't a bed of roses either. Being home by lunch every day doesn't do my health any good if I had to wake up at 5 or 6am. Much rather do an all-night flight.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 42
Likes: 1
From: Home Counties
Working nights is bad for your health, that's a fact and there have been plenty studies done if you look for them. Whether LH is better than SH is totally subjective and I'd reccomend at least trying it. I've done BA SH for 5 years and really enjoyed it. Moved onto the triple a year ago and while the flying is more about systems management its good to experience the other side of the operation. Might move back to SH when my freeze is up or I might not but that's the beauty of working for a big firm, you can move to a job that suits your circumstances. Whatever you decide make the most of it.