Virgin Recruiting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
When have Virgin actually made a profit? How old is Branson now? What do you think is going to happen to it after he shuffles off this mortal coil? All these robust redundancy agreements sound nice on paper but the proof will be in the pudding and a company under threat will ultimately do what it likes and worry about the niceties later, we saw all this during Covid. A friend of mine at VS has aged about twenty years in the last five, now if the 750 hour thing comes to pass then that’s great but I would not be handing over my financial future to an airline that has barely ever made a profit and the owner is fast approaching his late seventies. That’s essentially what I mean about my two cents. Yes junior at BA is hard but you’re not junior forever and I’d be far more confident about my paycheck in five to ten years time.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 528
Likes: 62
From: everywhere
A colleague had sim assessment last week and the scenario he was given was Loss of Communications followed by Bomb Threat.
He subsequently failed as was hand flying the sim at that time.
Comments please including from the TC who set this scenario who in my humble opinion is unsuitable for this task.
He subsequently failed as was hand flying the sim at that time.
Comments please including from the TC who set this scenario who in my humble opinion is unsuitable for this task.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 179
Likes: 25
From: uk
His partner was given an engine fire at 11000 ft which was extinguished.
When a candidate reaches the sim stage they should be treated with respect as they are a good candidate and capable.
That is how it is with BA selection.Unrealistic scenarios can overload anyone of us.
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
From: Up north
For those weighing up BA or VS, I think go with your instinct. BA is a career for life with probably more opportunities, undoubtedly make far more money and are a much bigger company. Although I do think having survived covid we’d get through most things. Branson only put forward a fairly small % of the cash injection, most came from other investors. We make plenty of money, VS are just too clever to call it profit, otherwise you have to pay tax. I personally enjoy it here despite finding it difficult working environment the last couple of years. Thats changed over the last 6 months and i think our new deal puts us in a good place again. Command time sits at 8 years right now vs BA’s 15+ for widebody.
Always 3 days off required between east to west or west to east. 4 days off if youve been to the far east.
year 1 SFO basic about £97k, with additional 6k in sector pay. £103k total. All of it is pensionable at 15%.
Theyve promised that anyone who wants any contract (part time/booster/750 etc) will have it granted as soon as they can. More recruitment needed now. Hopefully they deliver on the promise and i think a lot of pilots dont trust the company to deliver on that. Understandable after what they did over covid. New joiners must do 12 months on base contract before applying for another.
Theyve promised that anyone who wants any contract (part time/booster/750 etc) will have it granted as soon as they can. More recruitment needed now. Hopefully they deliver on the promise and i think a lot of pilots dont trust the company to deliver on that. Understandable after what they did over covid. New joiners must do 12 months on base contract before applying for another.
Last edited by recall_checked; 13th July 2024 at 20:50.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
For those weighing up BA or VS, I think go with your instinct. BA is a career for life with probably more opportunities, undoubtedly make far more money and are a much bigger company. Although I do think having survived covid we’d get through most things. Branson only put forward a fairly small % of the cash injection, most came from other investors. We make plenty of money, VS are just too clever to call it profit, otherwise you have to pay tax. I personally enjoy it here despite finding it difficult working environment the last couple of years. Thats changed over the last 6 months and i think our new deal puts us in a good place again. Command time sits at 8 years right now vs BA’s 15+ for widebody.
Always 3 days off required between east to west or west to east. 4 days off if youve been to the far east.
year 1 SFO basic about £97k, with additional 6k in sector pay. £103k total. All of it is pensionable at 15%.
Theyve promised that anyone who wants any contract (part time/booster/750 etc) will have it granted as soon as they can. More recruitment needed now. Hopefully they deliver on the promise and i think a lot of pilots dont trust the company to deliver on that. Understandable after what they did over covid. New joiners must do 12 months on base contract before applying for another.
Always 3 days off required between east to west or west to east. 4 days off if youve been to the far east.
year 1 SFO basic about £97k, with additional 6k in sector pay. £103k total. All of it is pensionable at 15%.
Theyve promised that anyone who wants any contract (part time/booster/750 etc) will have it granted as soon as they can. More recruitment needed now. Hopefully they deliver on the promise and i think a lot of pilots dont trust the company to deliver on that. Understandable after what they did over covid. New joiners must do 12 months on base contract before applying for another.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Although I do think having survived covid we’d get through most things. Branson only put forward a fairly small % of the cash injection, most came from other investors. We make plenty of money, VS are just too clever to call it profit, otherwise you have to pay tax.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve no desire to see VS go to the wall I've got many happy memories of travelling them to the States as a kid and don’t even think they necessarily will but my point was if you’ve got the choice between the two (and you have no time invested in either) then you go for the more stable option every single time especially if, as you say, it gives you more career options into the bargain.
(Edited just to say imagining Delta as a white knight saviour here is tempting but it should also be remembered how much money they put into Virgin during COVID, the square root of sweet Fanny Adams)
Last edited by RexBanner; 14th July 2024 at 08:50.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 50
Likes: 6
From: FL390
I am lucky and young enough to have no dependents, or mortgage to worry about. so job security isn’t the highest priority to me but still a consideration.
The VS and Branson thing doesn’t matter he is old but has no control over the company it’s delta who call the shots.
just looking at the new pay deal the money looks healthy I wonder how long I need to be in BA until I make that sort of cash.
anyone in VS know how easy it is to pick up overtime and days off right now and in the future. Also what’s this talk of an all Airbus fleet?
The VS and Branson thing doesn’t matter he is old but has no control over the company it’s delta who call the shots.
just looking at the new pay deal the money looks healthy I wonder how long I need to be in BA until I make that sort of cash.
anyone in VS know how easy it is to pick up overtime and days off right now and in the future. Also what’s this talk of an all Airbus fleet?
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: London
Interesting, thanks. For comparison, BA begins on just over £71k with what I expect is about £25-30k in allowances. Take home probably fairly similar but pension only on basic, so significantly less there. Allowances at BA are a good 30% of your take home on PP1 so sickness/fatigue/leave/part time all gets heavily punished financially, just as BA wanted of course. If Virgin go back to 750 hours there's no arguing it's a better deal on paper.
could someone clarify
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 27
From: World
The BA/VS debate is always going to be a personal decision and not one that anonymous forum dwellers can make for you.
Direct entry on BA LH will mean losing every weekend for years, having very little bid satisfaction for a long time, huge blocks of reserve and a lot more time away from home as trips can be up to 9 days long and fewer mandatory days off after duties. Some of the junior 777 rosters are eye-watering. The trade off is that the trigger for 3 pilots is a lot lower and more trips attract more time downroute, so your work life gets easier at the expense of your home life. There’s also a much larger route and fleet network and many more pay scales so the likelihood of getting bored of the job is less in the long run. At the end of the day, owned by IAG, BA aren’t going anywhere. Allowances are much better as well.
At VS, the rotating bid groups work well (unless you’re on the 350 which is chronically understaffed at the moment) and mean that every three months you should have a successful roster bid. Also rotates for annual leave so every 3rd cycle (leave bid cycles are for half the year) you should have a successful leave bid. The mandatory three days off after long two pilot duties that the new deal protects is great, as well as the east-west transition rules. Although after they get rid of the 333 we’ll see an increase in 3-pilot, 2 RDO trips (more akin to BA). Another perk of VS is that if no exterior disasters happen, you are looking at 7-8 years for a long haul command, roughly a decade quicker than at the other flag waver. The downsides are that the route network is a LOT smaller, there is no fleet bidding, you get what you’re given. As it stands, over winter the 787 does most of the interesting routes, MLE, CPT, JNB, PVG etc. The 330 takes most of the Caribbean and east coast workhorse stuff and the 350 does the west coast, LOS and India. Again, you have no choice in what you get. Those on the 350 with flexible schedules can earn thousands a month in overtime just moving duties around a couple of days, overtime on the 330 doesn’t really exist at the moment. All subject to change if the fleet structure changes.
Personally, my opinion is if you’re young and single and want to stay in the UK, BA is your best bet. However, if you have family you enjoy spending time with or are joining a bit later in life VS is a great option. Majority of people at Virgin are a pleasure to fly with and just want to have an enjoyable trip. You’ll almost always find someone to have a beer with or fill your downtime.
Direct entry on BA LH will mean losing every weekend for years, having very little bid satisfaction for a long time, huge blocks of reserve and a lot more time away from home as trips can be up to 9 days long and fewer mandatory days off after duties. Some of the junior 777 rosters are eye-watering. The trade off is that the trigger for 3 pilots is a lot lower and more trips attract more time downroute, so your work life gets easier at the expense of your home life. There’s also a much larger route and fleet network and many more pay scales so the likelihood of getting bored of the job is less in the long run. At the end of the day, owned by IAG, BA aren’t going anywhere. Allowances are much better as well.
At VS, the rotating bid groups work well (unless you’re on the 350 which is chronically understaffed at the moment) and mean that every three months you should have a successful roster bid. Also rotates for annual leave so every 3rd cycle (leave bid cycles are for half the year) you should have a successful leave bid. The mandatory three days off after long two pilot duties that the new deal protects is great, as well as the east-west transition rules. Although after they get rid of the 333 we’ll see an increase in 3-pilot, 2 RDO trips (more akin to BA). Another perk of VS is that if no exterior disasters happen, you are looking at 7-8 years for a long haul command, roughly a decade quicker than at the other flag waver. The downsides are that the route network is a LOT smaller, there is no fleet bidding, you get what you’re given. As it stands, over winter the 787 does most of the interesting routes, MLE, CPT, JNB, PVG etc. The 330 takes most of the Caribbean and east coast workhorse stuff and the 350 does the west coast, LOS and India. Again, you have no choice in what you get. Those on the 350 with flexible schedules can earn thousands a month in overtime just moving duties around a couple of days, overtime on the 330 doesn’t really exist at the moment. All subject to change if the fleet structure changes.
Personally, my opinion is if you’re young and single and want to stay in the UK, BA is your best bet. However, if you have family you enjoy spending time with or are joining a bit later in life VS is a great option. Majority of people at Virgin are a pleasure to fly with and just want to have an enjoyable trip. You’ll almost always find someone to have a beer with or fill your downtime.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 50
Likes: 6
From: FL390
The BA/VS debate is always going to be a personal decision and not one that anonymous forum dwellers can make for you.
Direct entry on BA LH will mean losing every weekend for years, having very little bid satisfaction for a long time, huge blocks of reserve and a lot more time away from home as trips can be up to 9 days long and fewer mandatory days off after duties. Some of the junior 777 rosters are eye-watering. The trade off is that the trigger for 3 pilots is a lot lower and more trips attract more time downroute, so your work life gets easier at the expense of your home life. There’s also a much larger route and fleet network and many more pay scales so the likelihood of getting bored of the job is less in the long run. At the end of the day, owned by IAG, BA aren’t going anywhere. Allowances are much better as well.
At VS, the rotating bid groups work well (unless you’re on the 350 which is chronically understaffed at the moment) and mean that every three months you should have a successful roster bid. Also rotates for annual leave so every 3rd cycle (leave bid cycles are for half the year) you should have a successful leave bid. The mandatory three days off after long two pilot duties that the new deal protects is great, as well as the east-west transition rules. Although after they get rid of the 333 we’ll see an increase in 3-pilot, 2 RDO trips (more akin to BA). Another perk of VS is that if no exterior disasters happen, you are looking at 7-8 years for a long haul command, roughly a decade quicker than at the other flag waver. The downsides are that the route network is a LOT smaller, there is no fleet bidding, you get what you’re given. As it stands, over winter the 787 does most of the interesting routes, MLE, CPT, JNB, PVG etc. The 330 takes most of the Caribbean and east coast workhorse stuff and the 350 does the west coast, LOS and India. Again, you have no choice in what you get. Those on the 350 with flexible schedules can earn thousands a month in overtime just moving duties around a couple of days, overtime on the 330 doesn’t really exist at the moment. All subject to change if the fleet structure changes.
Personally, my opinion is if you’re young and single and want to stay in the UK, BA is your best bet. However, if you have family you enjoy spending time with or are joining a bit later in life VS is a great option. Majority of people at Virgin are a pleasure to fly with and just want to have an enjoyable trip. You’ll almost always find someone to have a beer with or fill your downtime.
Direct entry on BA LH will mean losing every weekend for years, having very little bid satisfaction for a long time, huge blocks of reserve and a lot more time away from home as trips can be up to 9 days long and fewer mandatory days off after duties. Some of the junior 777 rosters are eye-watering. The trade off is that the trigger for 3 pilots is a lot lower and more trips attract more time downroute, so your work life gets easier at the expense of your home life. There’s also a much larger route and fleet network and many more pay scales so the likelihood of getting bored of the job is less in the long run. At the end of the day, owned by IAG, BA aren’t going anywhere. Allowances are much better as well.
At VS, the rotating bid groups work well (unless you’re on the 350 which is chronically understaffed at the moment) and mean that every three months you should have a successful roster bid. Also rotates for annual leave so every 3rd cycle (leave bid cycles are for half the year) you should have a successful leave bid. The mandatory three days off after long two pilot duties that the new deal protects is great, as well as the east-west transition rules. Although after they get rid of the 333 we’ll see an increase in 3-pilot, 2 RDO trips (more akin to BA). Another perk of VS is that if no exterior disasters happen, you are looking at 7-8 years for a long haul command, roughly a decade quicker than at the other flag waver. The downsides are that the route network is a LOT smaller, there is no fleet bidding, you get what you’re given. As it stands, over winter the 787 does most of the interesting routes, MLE, CPT, JNB, PVG etc. The 330 takes most of the Caribbean and east coast workhorse stuff and the 350 does the west coast, LOS and India. Again, you have no choice in what you get. Those on the 350 with flexible schedules can earn thousands a month in overtime just moving duties around a couple of days, overtime on the 330 doesn’t really exist at the moment. All subject to change if the fleet structure changes.
Personally, my opinion is if you’re young and single and want to stay in the UK, BA is your best bet. However, if you have family you enjoy spending time with or are joining a bit later in life VS is a great option. Majority of people at Virgin are a pleasure to fly with and just want to have an enjoyable trip. You’ll almost always find someone to have a beer with or fill your downtime.
Nice breakdown appreciate the info. what would a very junior roster on the A350 at VS look like, would be easy to pickup extra work for a few quid. how does the 750 hour/ 90 sector roster that might be coming work as I understand someone new will be put on a base contract.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 70
Likes: 5
From: UK
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 27
From: World
Nice breakdown appreciate the info. what would a very junior roster on the A350 at VS look like, would be easy to pickup extra work for a few quid. how does the 750 hour/ 90 sector roster that might be coming work as I understand someone new will be put on a base contract.
A quick look at a low seniority 350 FO roster for next month shows 5 trips, 4x one nights to ATL and LOS, 1x two-night to MCO and 15 days off. No idea what this person actually bid for.
The best way to pick up extra coin on the 350 is just shifting trips forward or back a day or two and taking the disruption payments for what would have been your days off. Is it easy? Extremely.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 313
Likes: 251
From: SE UK
Back to basics - how long are Delta prepared to support VS financially? A detailed review of their finances suggests that they would need to make substantial profits in order to service their loans (Note: money is not legally able to be “gifted” by Delta due to anti-competition rules).
https://www.gridpoint.consulting/blo...sses-at-virgin
UK Gov were also not prepared to provide any financial loans to VS in Covid, probably due to lack of assets.
Admittedly it’s all about the LHR slots - arguably they could be included in a valuation provided they remain solvent, but that wasn’t enough for UK Gov.
In relation to previous posts, I struggle to see how the minutiae of contracts is relevant with such an elephant in the room!
https://www.gridpoint.consulting/blo...sses-at-virgin
UK Gov were also not prepared to provide any financial loans to VS in Covid, probably due to lack of assets.
Admittedly it’s all about the LHR slots - arguably they could be included in a valuation provided they remain solvent, but that wasn’t enough for UK Gov.
In relation to previous posts, I struggle to see how the minutiae of contracts is relevant with such an elephant in the room!
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,149
Likes: 742
From: UK
* I am A330/A350 type rated and have flown that type long-haul for many years with two respected UK airlines, so I would have only needed a few days refresher SIMs to slot straight onto their fleet and fill a RHS.
The time before, when I applied; they put me through all the on-line cadet psychometric tests etc. Is it really necessary to put long term rated and experienced pilots through the same process ? Surely just a chat with the Chief Pilot to make sure candidates are normal, mature people, and a successful SIM revalidation would suffice ?
.
Last edited by Uplinker; 16th July 2024 at 11:03.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 528
Likes: 62
From: everywhere
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,149
Likes: 742
From: UK
Yes, exactly. Passing online "pattern Sudoku" within very tight time limits or 30 maths question in 12 minutes, etc., does not tell anyone how balanced, normal and mature a candidate is, and how likely that they will be a pleasant and reliable crew-mate on Atlantic or Indian Ocean crossings.
If a pilot has years of actual airline experience and of recurrent bi-annual SIMs on the same or similar large aircraft, then they have proved through their experience and record that they can multi-task and handle a busy wide-body cockpit in a busy TMA.
If a pilot has years of actual airline experience and of recurrent bi-annual SIMs on the same or similar large aircraft, then they have proved through their experience and record that they can multi-task and handle a busy wide-body cockpit in a busy TMA.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 50
Likes: 6
From: FL390
Anyone at virgin know anything about this rumoured 330neo order to replace the dreamlinersd and go all airbus, with crew doing full mixed flying between 330/350. I have heard about the mixed flying but wondering if there was anything solid behind it.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 48
No more LHR-PVG ?
...
VS are stopping the daily Shanghai from end of October 2024, whatever that signifies. Apparently it's a 787 route.
https://onemileatatime.com/news/virg...nghai-flights/
LFH
VS are stopping the daily Shanghai from end of October 2024, whatever that signifies. Apparently it's a 787 route.
https://onemileatatime.com/news/virg...nghai-flights/
LFH
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: EU
Last edited by pudoc; 17th July 2024 at 19:33.
