Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Upgrade to B737CPT or switch to FO widebody

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Upgrade to B737CPT or switch to FO widebody

Old 16th May 2022, 02:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Spain
Posts: 33
I’ve flown as PIC on our A330 and I’ve realized that widebody wasn’t for me; too much fuel in the tanks; it’s very boring. I am now back flying the A321neo and I love it. I would definitely go for the B737Cpt job.
RMP2 is offline  
Old 16th May 2022, 02:37
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sunnydale
Posts: 214
Itís horses for courses. Only you know what works for you and your lifestyle. I could honestly never go back to shorthaul. Iím home more, I canít remember the last time I set an alarm to wake me up at god awful oíclock five days in a row and not sleeping before hand either. Iíve got bigger blocks of days off in a row that I can do with as I please and Iíd rather dig my eyes out with a rusty spoon than go work for the ME3 or in Asia. I earn decent money and I live to my lifestyle. But thatís me. People can only speak
for themselves.
back to Boeing is offline  
Old 16th May 2022, 07:59
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
737 size command is worth it, it's a career teleport.

Imagine you could replicate and do both - 7 years from now the command 737 you will be getting a DEC on the ME3 WB cutting the line in front of the WB F/O you.

Not to mention 7 years from now the 737 command you will be looking at m-o/m-o offers in Asia worth 20k USD net (today's value) feeling sorry for the jet lag dogs. Check some threads from before COVID home many full civil home days each month did EK T7 captains have. (pickup kids at 16:30, evening and dinner + local night + family breakfast and drive kids to school by 08:00).
Now thatís where you are at a sticking point.

At the moment ME3 donít take DEC on to Boeing fleet. QR is advertising DEC Boeing fleet however very unlikely to get it with 737NG only time. I know a TRE/TRI been at a LCC for 20 years going to said company but moving to RHS. EK when they wanted DEC you needed heavy time. They tried taking 737 DEC people but it didnít work. Soooooo.

IMO as command is not guaranteed I would take the WB option. Thatís just me. I want to try LH.

As you seen from answers here some love LH some love SH. I have never done LH. Want to try it at some point to see if so like it. Better than getting to 60 and thinking what if.
I know people who have gone both ways. LH lovers will always say ďcan never do SH againĒ Namely those coming from LCC doing 5 early getting up at 3.30am and not getting home until 16.00 sometimes later is brutal. Then the SH lovers ďcan never do LH againĒ
Bored in the cruise for hours.

You know the type of person you are.

Itís a tough decision very few airlines allow you try both. BA is the only one that comes to mind where you could go either way and not have to move mountains.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 16th May 2022, 08:27
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,954
I loved long-haul, loved the majestic A330, and loved the days away down-route. But I think it is mostly 24hr bullets now?, so no fun anymore.

I personally would not move to the ME - you hear too many stories of airlines falsifying log books, a brutal operational culture, limited lifestyle in very hot countries, and extreme long-haul operations.

When the sh*t hits the fan, a Captain can be employed elsewhere as a Captain or an F/O. An F/O can only be employed as an F/O.

If the command course is on a useful jet and is a reasonable certainty - i.e. you have already been told you qualify to be on the next B737/A320 course - then I would go for the command. Glamorous long-haul probably doesn't exist any more?
Uplinker is offline  
Old 16th May 2022, 08:47
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,325
Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Similar question to that often posed here twenty odd years ago to TP FO's...

737 FO or TP Captain?

If I recall most were saying take the 737 back then.
1st priority should be to get onto a 50t Jet.
2nd priority should be to get a command.
3rd priority should be long haul/wide body.

Choosing TP captain over 737 FO is potentially painting yourself into a corner.
rudestuff is online now  
Old 16th May 2022, 10:01
  #26 (permalink)  
BBK
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 440
I’d suggest haul haul in the Middle East is a lifestyle option so it depends where you want to be in say 10-20 years? Long haul isn’t for everybody and I suspect that if you’re working a for a ME operator you’ll work hard. Have you any contacts out there already who can advise you. Personally I think lifestyle and the company you work for are more important than a command but each to their own. One piece of advice I was given by a trainer who had worked out there went like this. “The life style may seem great but after a while you’ll want to come home. Now you’re middle aged and you’ll be lucky to get a direct entry command so you will be back as a junior FO on a huge pay cut”.

That was enough to put me off ever applying!
BBK is offline  
Old 16th May 2022, 14:35
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 53
Very personal decision... I've never flown LH, even when I a had a good chance to do so... I stayed on SH because I thought that it would get me sooner to command... in the end... it took 4 years longer than I expected, and could have done both... The situation was different because it was all within the same company... I don't regret it though... flying SH for so long before the upgrade, meant that I was more experienced on type by the time I did my upgrade, and gave a lot of confidence... If I were you, I would wait for command, the sooner it comes the better... and who knows, in the future you may get a chance at a DEC position on a WB... If I am not mistaken, there was a time when Korean offered A330 DEC for A320 experienced captains and 777 for Boeing experienced CP as well... also Norwegian gave similar opportunities for experienced SH captains... Hopefully with time (and full recovery of the industry) there will be similar opportunities... but if you go for the LH FO position right now, who knows how many years you'll have to wait for the left seat... Anyways, good luck with whatever decision you make!
downsouth is offline  
Old 16th May 2022, 18:52
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: RHI
Posts: 74
I made the exact same choice. Moved to the Me fly widebody instead of my command at my loco. I can only say I regret it, my current job while paying much more is horribly tiring, I fly easily 1200 block hours a year. I am at almost 7 years still no chance at command while hundreds of DEC joined every year some flying 737. Id say get your command then move as a captain to the Middle East, dont be stupid, your chances at command are very low here atleast in The best airline in the world. After a few years you want to leave and eventually youll go back home which in my case is Europe and my widebody rating is useless.
Shooting_Star is offline  
Old 16th May 2022, 19:28
  #29 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Somewhere else
Age: 33
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Kennytheking View Post
This is true. It doesnít matter what you do. It depends on your own personal ambitions. If you want to be a widebody captain one day then there is only 1 way - you take the WB FO position. If you want to be a narrowbody captain for the rest of your life then take the command.
Not true. Coulple of my colleagues captains went from B737 to 787\777 direct entry...
mischo1990 is offline  
Old 17th May 2022, 05:32
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dubai
Age: 53
Posts: 257
Originally Posted by mischo1990 View Post
Not true. Coulple of my colleagues captains went from B737 to 787\777 direct entry...
Of course it happens - but widebody DEC(from NB) tends to be very much in the minority and generally at a bottom feeder.
Kennytheking is offline  
Old 17th May 2022, 06:48
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: UK
Posts: 28
Qatar taking DEC from 737 onto 78 and have taken many in the past on the same route.

As have EK... there was a time when they turned up at STN, did interviews there and then and took as many RYR 737 skippers as they could take. There are many many ex Ryr and Easy Direct Entry Captains flying wide bodies in the desert.

As the inevitable shortage deepens, as Asia opens up, as the Americans continue offering great packages to their own pilots its only a matter of time before we see this again.

Take the command. Worse case scenario better off an unemployed Captain and be able to go back to RHS if needed.
YosserHughes is offline  
Old 17th May 2022, 08:26
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by YosserHughes View Post
Qatar taking DEC from 737 onto 78 and have taken many in the past on the same route.

As have EK... there was a time when they turned up at STN, did interviews there and then and took as many RYR 737 skippers as they could take. There are many many ex Ryr and Easy Direct Entry Captains flying wide bodies in the desert.

As the inevitable shortage deepens, as Asia opens up, as the Americans continue offering great packages to their own pilots its only a matter of time before we see this again.

Take the command. Worse case scenario better off an unemployed Captain and be able to go back to RHS if needed.
Yes EK did turn up at STN recruiting. I went to it. Not for DEC but to gain more information about EK. I know a fair few at EK or been there. Not many 737 skippers passed the training at EK. They had the chance to try again but had to move to RHS for 12-18 months and had the benefit of the enhanced package.
I was told that from a now ex trainer at EK they reviewed that and will probably never recruit DEC from NB again. It didnít work.

AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 17th May 2022, 09:05
  #33 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Not commuting home
Age: 44
Posts: 3,792
It's not trainers or their leaders who will decide this once the need arises and parking airplanes becomes a threat.

But sure he told you what you wanted to hear, or every prospect F/O would like him to say.

Please understand that doing RHS ULH for 7 years and raising small kids in the sandbox while being a remote dad is not the top choice for many. There is a reason why Wizzair is not short of applicants while paying 10k USD less.

You have been long underlining the good points of EK here, while 0 row seat is still only an aspiration. Fair play, the good points are numerically underrepresented.

​​​​That does not alter the validity or gravity of the bad points. One of them being that command upgrade for an FO without relevant previous experience (OP's) is long years ahead and course availability is a gamble far from assured.
​​​​​
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 17th May 2022, 09:42
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dubai
Age: 53
Posts: 257
Please understand that doing RHS ULH for 7 years and raising small kids in the sandbox while being a remote dad is not the top choice for many.
That is a fair point which is why I brought up the question of what the OP wishes to do with his life. If he wishes to fly a WB then get out there and do it. WB DEC as a NB Capt is a possibility but is is by far the exception and there is a big question mark over whether EK will do it in the future - maybe, maybe not.....certainly far more of a gamble than the upgrade course availability you mentioned.. Probably be opportunities with QR but, yeah, refer to my previous post.
Kennytheking is offline  
Old 17th May 2022, 15:04
  #35 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Not commuting home
Age: 44
Posts: 3,792
Agreed. From my perspective any of the ME 2+0.5+0.5 are the same. I remember this forum buzzing with people changing jerseys both ways as the conditions are made progressively worse at uneven pace.

Add KAL, Hainan group, Bamboo, Scoot...to the mix, there will be an opportunity when the gloom phase change to boom. Although the Persian gulf zone might actually be saturated.

Whereas in one airline you are better secured waiting for but one opportunity.

The relevant reading is Airbus' Market Forecast document for 2022-2040.

​​​​​Though it's another sentence in your fine post that deserves the most attention:

what the OP wishes to do with his life. If he wishes to fly a WB
I take it out of context deliberately so the young talents can understand the hard core meaning, when written exactly this way.

It doesn't say 'if you dream to build your career to a WB LHS at a five-star airline'. Very different.




​​​​​​
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 17th May 2022, 15:34
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 373
It depends on the airline: If it is a career airline: go for WB FO. If it is a WB position at the ME3 or any other bottom feeder (Norse for instance) take the command on 737.
SaulGoodman is offline  
Old 18th May 2022, 07:39
  #37 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Somewhere else
Age: 33
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
Iíd suggest haul haul in the Middle East is a lifestyle option so it depends where you want to be in say 10-20 years? Long haul isnít for everybody and I suspect that if youíre working a for a ME operator youíll work hard. Have you any contacts out there already who can advise you. Personally I think lifestyle and the company you work for are more important than a command but each to their own. One piece of advice I was given by a trainer who had worked out there went like this. ďThe life style may seem great but after a while youíll want to come home. Now youíre middle aged and youíll be lucky to get a direct entry command so you will be back as a junior FO on a huge pay cutĒ.

That was enough to put me off ever applying!
Have a couple of ex-colleagues suggesting me what 90% of people here are suggesting. Wait for the upgrade on the 737...
mischo1990 is offline  
Old 20th May 2022, 08:14
  #38 (permalink)  
BBK
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 440
Originally Posted by mischo1990 View Post
Have a couple of ex-colleagues suggesting me what 90% of people here are suggesting. Wait for the upgrade on the 737...
Whatever you decide the best of luck! Iíll be interested how it goes for you. By the way I went UK short haul to UK long haul so there wasnít the issue of coming back from the Mid East to contend with. Iíve been very lucky and I would never have foreseen 9/11 or covid but who did? All the best.
BBK is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.