Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pub
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Ascoteer
You realise British people were also "European pilots that were unable to transfer their license to any other EASA authority because they were working for a UK operator." 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,272
Sick
Indeed. Just all of irish and british crews. But certainly not a huge problem at the moment. However, without technically being based in the UK, but rather seconded there on a temporary base, that might still be possible, after all, the TCA makes it very much clear that wet leasing from the EU into the UK remains possible, just not the other way round.
Indeed. Just all of irish and british crews. But certainly not a huge problem at the moment. However, without technically being based in the UK, but rather seconded there on a temporary base, that might still be possible, after all, the TCA makes it very much clear that wet leasing from the EU into the UK remains possible, just not the other way round.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,098
Originally Posted by rogue leader
There is nothing preventing the EU empowering EASA to issue licences to former UK EASA licence holders either.
Originally Posted by Sick
Therein lies a need for British and uk settled-status pilots with EASA licences... that's now a finite, and eventually dwindling supply.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 64
And the benefit to the UK of Ryanair operating EASA-registered aircraft with EASA-licenced pilots based in the UK is?
Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?
Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,272
Good question, I wondered that myself. But in the end, the UK signed an international agreement that allows just that. Not that it is yet ratified by the EU, after all, it might still sink which would bring another whole host of problems, like the immediate and complete loss of traffic rights of the EU into the UK and vice versa.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,098
Originally Posted by rogue leader
And the benefit to the UK of Ryanair operating EASA-registered aircraft with EASA-licenced pilots based in the UK is?
Originally Posted by rogue leader
Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?
Holders of EASA licences issued after 1 Jan 2021 are required to complete training as recommended by a UK ATO, complete all theory exams and a skill test with a UK examiner and to gain a UK medical certificate appropriate to that licence.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 32
How can one be 'based' in the UK unless one has the right to work/reside ? In days of gold, therein was the problem first. One of my dreams was to live and work as an airline pilot in the USA. Getting the right to live & work was the first, major hurdle. Same with Canada. Gave up.
Later, lived and worked with an Italian carrier 'based in Milan' on work/res permits and licence validation. Worked just fine. Just prior, in m y former company, Italian division required full UK ATPL writtens and type ratings to fly our UK registered aircraft out of the UK, just for extensive line/training. Politicians just trying to close up potential political loop-holes, I guess.Doesn't half create problems and divisions though.
Later, lived and worked with an Italian carrier 'based in Milan' on work/res permits and licence validation. Worked just fine. Just prior, in m y former company, Italian division required full UK ATPL writtens and type ratings to fly our UK registered aircraft out of the UK, just for extensive line/training. Politicians just trying to close up potential political loop-holes, I guess.Doesn't half create problems and divisions though.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Chicken Town
Posts: 19
Quote....And the benefit to the UK of Ryanair operating EASA-registered aircraft with EASA-licenced pilots based in the UK is?
Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?
Ryanair created a UK AOC with 1 G reg aircraft on it. Then tried to wet lease hundreds of EI reg aircraft in. Which was stopped, rules state only 10% of fleet can be wet leased.
Quote...As Denti points out, UK signed the agreement which allows this. DHL UK benefit from the same thing on the other side of the (now hard) border.
Really. So you’re saying G reg aircraft can fly point to point in Europe with UK licence only pilots...Amazing.
Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?
Ryanair created a UK AOC with 1 G reg aircraft on it. Then tried to wet lease hundreds of EI reg aircraft in. Which was stopped, rules state only 10% of fleet can be wet leased.
Quote...As Denti points out, UK signed the agreement which allows this. DHL UK benefit from the same thing on the other side of the (now hard) border.
Really. So you’re saying G reg aircraft can fly point to point in Europe with UK licence only pilots...Amazing.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,272
Well, cargo is a special case to begin with, under TCA rules. But even without going there, the TCA does provide for wet lease from the UK to the EU, however, only in very limited and special cases. So it is not something that can happen on an everyday level. The other way round there is no such caveat.
For air cargo the TCA provides the express possibility to have bilateral agreements between EU member states and the UK about fifth freedom rights on a reciprocal level. No such provision is given for other air transport operations.
But of course, both areas can dry lease without any restriction from each other area, so there might be D-registered aircraft flying with UK licensed crew within the UK, and G-registered aircraft with EU licensed crew in Germany for example. I have no idea how DHL UK currently operates, but it could be interesting how it works within the confines of the TCA.
The TCA provides no further freedoms apart from 3 to 5, and 5 only for air cargo.
For air cargo the TCA provides the express possibility to have bilateral agreements between EU member states and the UK about fifth freedom rights on a reciprocal level. No such provision is given for other air transport operations.
But of course, both areas can dry lease without any restriction from each other area, so there might be D-registered aircraft flying with UK licensed crew within the UK, and G-registered aircraft with EU licensed crew in Germany for example. I have no idea how DHL UK currently operates, but it could be interesting how it works within the confines of the TCA.
The TCA provides no further freedoms apart from 3 to 5, and 5 only for air cargo.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Chicken Town
Posts: 19
Quote....But of course, both areas can dry lease without any restriction from each other area, so there might be D-registered aircraft flying with UK licensed crew within the UK, and G-registered aircraft with EU licensed crew in Germany for example. I have no idea how DHL UK currently operates, but it could be interesting how it works within the confines of the TCA.
If then, as a cargo operator you can dry lease in and out and operate an EASA reg aircraft on a UK licence, then it seems it matters very little what the TCA says anyway.
Still seems a precarious way to run a large business. I know for a fact the French impounded a G-Reg cargo airframe that was operating point to point in France, and this was before Brexit. Cost an exuberant fee to settle too....Be amazed if they weren’t waiting to pounce again.
So yes, it may well prove to be very interesting....
If then, as a cargo operator you can dry lease in and out and operate an EASA reg aircraft on a UK licence, then it seems it matters very little what the TCA says anyway.
Still seems a precarious way to run a large business. I know for a fact the French impounded a G-Reg cargo airframe that was operating point to point in France, and this was before Brexit. Cost an exuberant fee to settle too....Be amazed if they weren’t waiting to pounce again.
So yes, it may well prove to be very interesting....
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 732
@DS. I may be mistaken but you seem to have thing about how DHK goes about it’s business - any particular reason? For me if the regulators are ok with it then so am I. If they ever change that, then I guess we’ll deal with it then.
I’m not aware of EASA reg being crewed by UK licences.
I’m not aware of EASA reg being crewed by UK licences.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pub
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by rogue leader
lilpilot, do you realise UK citizens have the right to live and work in Ireland? Do you realise there are jobs outside of the EU which require an EASA licence for various reasons?
With that said it would have been prudent to grandfather in all professional qualifications that were issued during EU membership. Unfortunately this concept didn't make the final agreement, other professions are struggling too: https://www.archdaily.com/959569/uk-...llowing-brexit
I see from your posts that your ATPL exams is your main concern, I do hope they are working on these "ground certificates" and they'll get the proper acknowledgement, on every side. In the event that there's a huge runup and they need to find every single pilot pronto, you can bet on it, that common sense will return to them quickly.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Shannon
Posts: 12
Wrong, it says German speakers. There are many people who are not from Germany, but who speak German. Same goes for French. The inability of being multilingual doesn’t warrant accusations of only hiring certain nationalities.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Shannon
Posts: 12
there are many Italians who live in the Piemonte or Lombardy area that either work for German companies or commute to Austria or Switzerland. Maybe you didn’t realize, but the north of Italy is full of German manufacturing.
To indulgence further in your ignorance, besides German speaking countries as Switzerland and Austria, there are many Dutch, Luxembourg,Belgian, Polish and Scandinavians that do speak German.
Maybe odd for you, but a large portion of the European citizens speak more than English as a second tongue.
To indulgence further in your ignorance, besides German speaking countries as Switzerland and Austria, there are many Dutch, Luxembourg,Belgian, Polish and Scandinavians that do speak German.
Maybe odd for you, but a large portion of the European citizens speak more than English as a second tongue.
Last edited by FR9999; 20th Apr 2021 at 22:22.
