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Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences.

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Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences.

Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:00
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ascoteer View Post
You realise British people were also "European pilots that were unable to transfer their license to any other EASA authority because they were working for a UK operator."
You realise there's no point of transfering to an EASA authority if one has no right to live and work in a member state.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:07
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Sick

Indeed. Just all of irish and british crews. But certainly not a huge problem at the moment. However, without technically being based in the UK, but rather seconded there on a temporary base, that might still be possible, after all, the TCA makes it very much clear that wet leasing from the EU into the UK remains possible, just not the other way round.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:07
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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lilpilot, do you realise UK citizens have the right to live and work in Ireland? Do you realise there are jobs outside of the EU which require an EASA licence for various reasons?
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:19
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogue leader View Post
There is nothing preventing the EU empowering EASA to issue licences to former UK EASA licence holders either.
And the benefit to the EU in all this would be...?

Originally Posted by Sick View Post
Therein lies a need for British and uk settled-status pilots with EASA licences... that's now a finite, and eventually dwindling supply.
Not sure if it's necessary a finite supply. What's stopping British citizens from pursuing training and licencing under EASA?
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:24
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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And the benefit to the UK of Ryanair operating EASA-registered aircraft with EASA-licenced pilots based in the UK is?

Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:47
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Good question, I wondered that myself. But in the end, the UK signed an international agreement that allows just that. Not that it is yet ratified by the EU, after all, it might still sink which would bring another whole host of problems, like the immediate and complete loss of traffic rights of the EU into the UK and vice versa.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 20:12
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogue leader View Post
And the benefit to the UK of Ryanair operating EASA-registered aircraft with EASA-licenced pilots based in the UK is?
As Denti points out, UK signed the agreement which allows this. DHL UK benefit from the same thing on the other side of the (now hard) border.

Originally Posted by rogue leader View Post
Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?
I think the same rule applies for EASA licence holders, who have never held a UK EASA licence, and wish to obtain a UK Part-FCL licence:

Holders of EASA licences issued after 1 Jan 2021 are required to complete training as recommended by a UK ATO, complete all theory exams and a skill test with a UK examiner and to gain a UK medical certificate appropriate to that licence. ​​​​​​​
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Old 8th Apr 2021, 09:29
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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How can one be 'based' in the UK unless one has the right to work/reside ? In days of gold, therein was the problem first. One of my dreams was to live and work as an airline pilot in the USA. Getting the right to live & work was the first, major hurdle. Same with Canada. Gave up.

Later, lived and worked with an Italian carrier 'based in Milan' on work/res permits and licence validation. Worked just fine. Just prior, in m y former company, Italian division required full UK ATPL writtens and type ratings to fly our UK registered aircraft out of the UK, just for extensive line/training. Politicians just trying to close up potential political loop-holes, I guess.Doesn't half create problems and divisions though.
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Old 8th Apr 2021, 09:29
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Quote....And the benefit to the UK of Ryanair operating EASA-registered aircraft with EASA-licenced pilots based in the UK is?

Nothing stopping them as I can see, but why should those who have already held EASA licences need to do it all again?

Ryanair created a UK AOC with 1 G reg aircraft on it. Then tried to wet lease hundreds of EI reg aircraft in. Which was stopped, rules state only 10% of fleet can be wet leased.

Quote...As Denti points out, UK signed the agreement which allows this. DHL UK benefit from the same thing on the other side of the (now hard) border.

Really. So you’re saying G reg aircraft can fly point to point in Europe with UK licence only pilots...Amazing.
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Old 8th Apr 2021, 09:46
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Well, cargo is a special case to begin with, under TCA rules. But even without going there, the TCA does provide for wet lease from the UK to the EU, however, only in very limited and special cases. So it is not something that can happen on an everyday level. The other way round there is no such caveat.

For air cargo the TCA provides the express possibility to have bilateral agreements between EU member states and the UK about fifth freedom rights on a reciprocal level. No such provision is given for other air transport operations.

But of course, both areas can dry lease without any restriction from each other area, so there might be D-registered aircraft flying with UK licensed crew within the UK, and G-registered aircraft with EU licensed crew in Germany for example. I have no idea how DHL UK currently operates, but it could be interesting how it works within the confines of the TCA.

The TCA provides no further freedoms apart from 3 to 5, and 5 only for air cargo.
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Old 9th Apr 2021, 10:29
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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The UK needs to rejoin EASA, is this not obvious`?
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Old 9th Apr 2021, 15:55
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Quote....But of course, both areas can dry lease without any restriction from each other area, so there might be D-registered aircraft flying with UK licensed crew within the UK, and G-registered aircraft with EU licensed crew in Germany for example. I have no idea how DHL UK currently operates, but it could be interesting how it works within the confines of the TCA.

If then, as a cargo operator you can dry lease in and out and operate an EASA reg aircraft on a UK licence, then it seems it matters very little what the TCA says anyway.

Still seems a precarious way to run a large business. I know for a fact the French impounded a G-Reg cargo airframe that was operating point to point in France, and this was before Brexit. Cost an exuberant fee to settle too....Be amazed if they werenít waiting to pounce again.

So yes, it may well prove to be very interesting....
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Old 9th Apr 2021, 16:29
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Contact Approach

Not to the politicians who take these decisions!!!
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Old 9th Apr 2021, 17:28
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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@DS. I may be mistaken but you seem to have thing about how DHK goes about it’s business - any particular reason? For me if the regulators are ok with it then so am I. If they ever change that, then I guess we’ll deal with it then.

I’m not aware of EASA reg being crewed by UK licences.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 02:44
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogue leader View Post
lilpilot, do you realise UK citizens have the right to live and work in Ireland? Do you realise there are jobs outside of the EU which require an EASA licence for various reasons?
The CTA gives the right to to live and work in Ireland, not through Ireland in other countries in the EU. Any operator trying to circumvent EU law by using the CTA as a trojan horse will be dealt with, Ryanair has been under scrutiny for violating EU employment laws already, as a repeat offender authorities can't wait to add a couple big fines on their account. But what matters is pilots may also get the shortest end of the stick.
With that said it would have been prudent to grandfather in all professional qualifications that were issued during EU membership. Unfortunately this concept didn't make the final agreement, other professions are struggling too: https://www.archdaily.com/959569/uk-...llowing-brexit

I see from your posts that your ATPL exams is your main concern, I do hope they are working on these "ground certificates" and they'll get the proper acknowledgement, on every side. In the event that there's a huge runup and they need to find every single pilot pronto, you can bet on it, that common sense will return to them quickly.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 12:32
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Just to highlight it still happens...

German jobs for German people by stealth. The French do it too.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 13:02
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Most operators across Europe do that.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 13:24
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Wrong, it says German speakers. There are many people who are not from Germany, but who speak German. Same goes for French. The inability of being multilingual doesn’t warrant accusations of only hiring certain nationalities.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 13:27
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Find me an Italian or Spaniard that speaks German. Like I said, German jobs for German people BY STEALTH
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 13:37
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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there are many Italians who live in the Piemonte or Lombardy area that either work for German companies or commute to Austria or Switzerland. Maybe you didnít realize, but the north of Italy is full of German manufacturing.

To indulgence further in your ignorance, besides German speaking countries as Switzerland and Austria, there are many Dutch, Luxembourg,Belgian, Polish and Scandinavians that do speak German.

Maybe odd for you, but a large portion of the European citizens speak more than English as a second tongue.

Last edited by FR9999; 20th Apr 2021 at 22:22.
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